Pitching rotation

It all depends on how hard the pitchers have to work in their stints--if there are not a lot of pitches thrown it can be ok, at least from where I sit

TRhit

TR is right, and don't sacrifice your son's well being because the coach doesn't have enough senior pitching. It is ok if the pitch count stays low, but that is not always a given.
Tonight was our first game that "counts",not a district game. Due to rotation, my son started and 6 innings 95 (we think more) pitches later he finished the game. Completely unneccessary and my husband and I are upset he threw so many pitches first game of the season. They said he was not struggling, averaged 15 pitches per inning and still throwing 90 near the end. They asked him if he wanted to come out. In the fifth my son hit a homerun, had one hit off him all night, it was his night, do they think he would have said yes? Although the coach refused to listen to us after the game, I think he got the message. My son is horrified at us for speaking up, too bad. My son could have a future in pro ball, it is his future,coach just wanted the win tonight.

baseonballs50

Not to defend to coach BUT

In the 95 pitches how many were fastballs, curves etc?

What was the weather like?

15 pitches and inning is not outrageous.

Isn't funny how some complain because the kid isnt pitching enough and others have a problem because the kid starts and throws 95 pitches and wins?

And they say coaching is easy !!!

TRhit

When I look at pitching for my son I look to see if the velocity is dropping. Mine pitched last Thursday and will pitch tonight. As long as he gets 1 hour of rest for every pitch and I count 12 hours for warm-ups, I am fine with it. I will agree that the coach should not ask the kid. What kid will say no? It ought to be talked about before the season. My coach wants to keep mine on 80 pitches. I feel that mine is well conditioned and I don't have a problem with 100 early in the season and 110-15 late in the season.

I aggree that parents need to look out for their sons. Most coaches don't want anything but a win.

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"

I can think of one team that did this and won a state title in ,91. It often is referred to as "pitching by committee." We do it although we use 3 pitchers and not 2. We do it early in the season because it allows pitchers to get some bullpen work in and then face game conditions. I think a couple of common sense issues are mandatory. A strict pitch count. Say what you want pro or con pitch count, here theses arms are young and can be overworked. 2nd, a good program for stretching before they throw including bandwork and then a good program for after they work. This brings us to another thing = ICE. Some pro teams are going to the position to not ice. We still do but we have a trainer at all of our games. Our format goes 3 innings, 2 innings, 2 innings. We would like to always keep the pitch count around 40-45 or below depending upon the player and their year in school. The best policy since you are so concerned as a parent is to request a meeting with the coach. I really can't think of any reason why a coach would not talk to you about this. Naturally, if you don't like the outcome of that meeting, you can remove your child from that team.

"There comes a time when you have to stop dreaming of the man you want to be and start being the man you have become." Bruce Springsteen

I think BigHit will agree that changing schools this year is not an option. My son is the teams #1 pitcher.
I don't have problem with the count other than it is too early in the season and he has to pitch again on saturday. His progression went from 40+ one week, to 50+ last week to 95 yesterday (not including bullpen and warmups), and at end of game velocity was still there. Weather good, good mix of pitches he did not have to work too hard but the point was it was not a district game, a new HS with no seniors, our team lost it's bats somewhere and they relied on him too much last night. He hit a home run tied the game, he should have come out then. We are close with the coaches, they know how we are, everyone just got carried away.
It is funny how some parents don't feel there son is pitching too little, some too much, but mine has a great scholly and maybe a shot at pro. I did call his coach for next year and he will talk with him, he also feels it was a bit too much so early.

How well did he prepare himself in the off season?

My son starts Practice in mid March, he started throwing 24 pitches 3x a week in Early January.

He is now up to 60 pitch bullpens (with no breaks between sets) so when March 27th rolls around he could easly go 100 pitches without me worrying. (as long as those 100 pitches don't all come the same inning )

Play every game as if it were your last

A benefit for the team in doing that is that the opposition will not see the same pitcher more than 1 or 2 at bats before the change. Maybe righty/lefty. Maybe hard thrower/off speeder. Maybe high armer/side armer. It keeps the other team from settling in on one pitcher.

And for the kids, it should keep the pitch count down. You can't go by inning pitched. You could throw to 3 batters or 10 in any given inning. Ex: My youngest son, who was 14 last summer, never threw more than 70 pitches in a start (60 was the target number). He relieved in the middle of one game with runners on 1st and 2nd, 1 out. With one pitch he got a double play ground ball.... 2/3 innings in the book, but only one pitch.

His strength is that he is a smart pitcher, not an overpowering one. He works the knees and corners and gets a lot of ground balls. He understands that, although strike outs are nice, you have to throw a minimum of 9 pitches every inning to retire the side, or you can do it on 3 pitches in the right place. He's no super star, but he gets the idea that fewer pitches mean going longer.

"A day without baseball is like a day without sunshine...and that's the only acceptable excuse."

The A's have teh double rotation in their lower level minors. I would rather see it based on pitch count but whatever works.

When I evaluate whether to yank a pitcher or not, velocity, mechanics and location factors into my decision. Early in the year, I like to stick closely to a pitch count but, as the year progresses, I allow a 10-20% increase on the pitch count based upon the above factors.

Baseonballs50,

You should definitly have conversation with your sons coach so that he can be productive for his team while reducing as much unwarranted risk to the health of his arm. In reading your post it seems as though if we remove the concern over the pitch count, your son had a great opening day.

I would take into consideration as you address this issue of reducing physical risk that you do so with care not to interject in a way that causes tension or discourse between the player and his coach. As it is, you are looking at protecting his body but equally important is his state of mind as it relates to performance. Tension or frustration can be a players undoing no matter what the skill capacity. "My son is horrified at us for speaking up, too bad." Try to keep things low key and resolve them to your satisfaction while perserving harmony it will lead to his continued outstanding play. Congratulate him on a great evening and best of luck to him in the future.

Thank you all for your input. I just feel a coach should never jeopardize the possibility of injury and it threw us off guard. Coach knows we can get crazy, two weeks ago my son got caught off guard and dove into the base and the first thing coach said was, "I'll discuss this with him later". We have a close relationship, he should not have been surprised by our reaction. Hoping that he will get the message. By all means we were proud of how he did last night, we just want to see him make it out of HS with no injuries!

The thing that concerns me the most is what will happen to his arm after pitching on short
rest week after week.Most injuries occur when a
pitcher is tired or overused,and pitching continuously on short rest will not give him a
chance to get proper rest.He has games where he
has thrown over 100 pitches,but then didn't pitch for a week.If he throws 40-50 pitches one day,then 2 or 3 days later throws another 40-50,
he would be expected to pitch again in another 2
or 3 days without really resting his arm.I am
most concerned about his arm and his future in
college.

Yes, the coaches should use common sense when it comes to pitch counts based on innings, weather, etc. but they can only use guidelines. It’s the player who really knows how the arm is feeling. If a player has goals of playing at the next level, they really need to start taking some responsibility for their physical health. They must learn to give their coach an accurate response when they're ask, "How are you doing?". Any soreness, or unusual feeling in the arm needs to be reported. Dad's not going to be out there to talk for them and after the game can be too late in some cases. Often its these heroes that continue to pitch no matter what, who are the future TJ candidates. Pitchers need to be taught at an early age to speak up.

TRhit,
Great Post!!!!!!!

Steve Trombly
TROMBLY BASEBALL
www.tromblybaseball.com
steve@tromblybaseball.com

Eagledad, how much rest is enough?

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"

Good rule of thumb I am told, one hour of rest for every pitch thrown in the game, 45 pitches = 45 hours before placed in another game situation. Ok for some light work in between games.

CV

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."

Earl Weaver

Seems like 90 - 100 is pretty high for the first game out. Many pros are WORKING UP to that number well into the season, with lots of rest. I agree with RHPO5Parent that players need to begin to take responsibility for their own arm health. (Granted much easier said than done.)
Eagledad, what were the pitches he was throwing? Many/any sliders, curves?

We had a twin bill and a junior pitched 7 innings throwing 120 pitches and 71 strikes. The second game we had our senior going 7 innings throwing 122 pitches and 72 strikes.

Knowledge is Power! Thank you Mavens and HSBBWEB!

He would usually pitch one of the district games, either tuesday or friday,then pitch the
next week.He would be throwing everyday in practice,either flat ground,bullpen or at 3b.
He throws fb,curves and changeups.As I said,I am
just concerned that if he continuously goes on
short rest that he would injure his arm.There is
a big difference between throwing and pitching
in a game.