Pitching

78 is plenty fast for your age. You need to focus on control and a change up. Many HS kids are throwing at the same speed. Remember the most effective pitchers aren't necessarily the fastest. I would hate for you to injure yourself by trying to throw as hard as you can to impress a radar gun. But, with all that said, start a long toss program, run, run, run, and work your legs and abs for a strong mid-section. Good luck and Be Careful!!

Whats Long toss i have never heard of it?

where you throw the ball as far as you can.

Throw it with and arc but not a "ranibow".

Long toss does not always mean tossing it as far as you can. It's a progression and should be followed carefully. Not all pitchers prefer to throw "as far as they can".
Chris go speak to your coach.

The way I learned to 'long toss' was to (after stretching and warming up) start out at a comfortable distance from your throwing partner, and make 10 good throws. Back up 10 to 15 feet and make 10 more good throws. Keep doing this until you've reached your maximum distance (throwing with a 'crow hop'). Then work back in to your starting point. Concentrate on making good, accurate, line drive throws. At the longer distances there will naturally be an arc, but don't settle for rainbow throws.

The whole point of long toss is the progression; the gradual increase in distance (which slowly, smoothly, and gradually warms up and builds up the muscles).

I have my guys do this, but we throw 3 balls and then take a step back.

You don't want to spread out 200 feet from the start and begin heaving it.

The most important thing you can do is pitch off the mound as often as you can. Weighted balls and long toss don't improve velocity, just keep pitching with proper mechanics.

quote:

long toss don't improve velocity

GONG!

but does long toss improve stamina? actually, i don't have my pitchers throwing farther than 60 feet 6 inches but i have always wondered what advantages long toss provides.

I have never seen a study regarding weighted balls that didn't show an increase in velocity. Where do you get your information?

We have heard from a Mills desciple and a Mitchel groupie.
Chris from Germany get a good book from a repotable pitching guy like Tom House or "All You need to know about pitching" by Louisville Slugger. I really like the Louisville book as it is easy to read and great illustrations and looks at several points of view. It is the only one I bought. A great book.
Long Toss is not just for pitchers. It is used as part of the regimine to strenthen and promote arm heath. A crow hop is fine but for pitchers you have to do long toss with good pitching mechanics.
Loosen up, strecch start with wrist flips, short tos from the power position then spread apart as others have suggested until you end up at your maximum distancd always throwing at the chest. A pitcher should throw relatively flat as opposed to a rain bow. Once maxed out lighten up and shorten the distance as you wind down.
Stay away from the books and prophets that market the secrets that will make you a superstar.
Throwing off the mound and off flat ground are both good for you. Son always starts in front of the mound for a few warm up tosses and then a few from behind the mound befaore starting a bull pen or pre game warm up. Worst injury was a swelled Ulnar due to arm cooling down in a game. There are people who love the game and not just trying to reinvent the game for a buck.

Chris in wonderland . I actually agree with most of your last post. Who would have thought ?

Slobin TO what team do you work with ?

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Chris in wonderland . I actually agree with most of your last post. Who would have thought ?

Slobin TO what team do you work with ?

I work with the Team Toronto program (1991's) and coach the East York 1991 TBA team. I am also putting a East York 15 and under team in Sandlott this spring and fall.

I sent you back a PM.
Our team was in the Sandlot last year and won the Great lakes Super Sandlot division. We qualified to go to the World Series but they went to the NY Connie Mack Qualifier. My son could not go because he was a month too old. We played in Cleveland,painesville Ohio and Bufalo. The change in the PBLO should improve the Elite baseball in Ontario. Team Toronto 18s are mostly Team O Inc players since the changes last year in the Team O Inc organization. This should be a great year in Ontario Ball.

Re-check your facts. Many big league pitchers did not throw a curve until high school or later. I am sure some threw earlier. I really have never seen the need for a curve below the age of 13 or 14. If thrown correctly, it should not effect the arm, But I have heard that it can effect growth plates. I am not a doctor, but a coach/trainer of 30 years. I teach young pitchers to throw fastball, 2 seam and 4, and a change. At a certan point, all kids are different and grow at their own rate, I recommend a curve. I have seen some 14 year olds with a decent curve and some 17 years olds not throwing one yet.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I sent you back a PM.
Our team was in the Sandlot last year and won the Great lakes Super Sandlot division. We qualified to go to the World Series but they went to the NY Connie Mack Qualifier. My son could not go because he was a month too old. We played in Cleveland,painesville Ohio and Bufalo. The change in the PBLO should improve the Elite baseball in Ontario. Team Toronto 18s are mostly Team O Inc players since the changes last year in the Team O Inc organization. This should be a great year in Ontario Ball.

Got your PM. Many thanks. I have to say, with all the changes, shuffling and movement that happens with private baseball, it is difficult to keep track of all that is happening. This will be my first year of being involved with the Sandlott system and I am looking forward to it.

Innocent he was 10 yo. You have to be very careful. It was not a tomahawk sype action and I called it a LL curve ball with a 12-6 action. It was taught to him by a high level pitcher and it was very effective and very slow. Sons delivery is very smooth and finishes with hand down below his knee.
His CB is very different but he has great feel for the off speeds. He can throw a strike at the front of the plate and hit the dirt just behind it. He has had a strike called and hit the batters back foot.
Be careful and get good advice. He showed me how he did it and all I can remember was his fingers sliding off the side of the ball spinning the seems. No sudden force on the elbow.

Coachric is basically correct. A lot depends on the body type and your delivery. There are people who say that a properly throw curve is not hard on the arm at an early age. As I have said he has only had a swelled Ulnar and that was last year.Not due to mechanics but arm cool down. He had 7Ks in the 1st 3 innings and 3 popups in the 4th. The hitters went on a rampage and his arm cooled. He threw 3 pitchers and pulled himself. His elbow stiffened for a couple weeks but doctor said no damage. Doctor tests his elbow rotator and shoulder regularly. Once every month in season.
He had to be shown as he got around 15 to throw a ML CB with tighter rotation. We stay away from the slit finger fast ball but heavy use of slider and a modified CU because his fingers are so long. I never get involved with the pitches because he knows what he is doing at 19. I watch his mechanics only because they drift at times and need telling. At home of course.

Slobin TO yes lots of changes and I believe for the good. The Ontario youth team is back where it should be and no longer just another Elite team.
Gold medals at the Canada Cup at all levels last year.

Sorry to disappoint, but i have no Dick Mills stuff. I merely think that at this age it is all about mechanics. I feel that weighted balls and too much long toss at this tender age can be harmful.

Gog what age are you talking?
Dick Mills says exactly what you are saying. I am also not sold on weighted balls because it may mess with your release point. Not sure but it seems logical if you are training your memory muscles. Long Toss is to condition your arm and our kids do long toss from about 9-10 years old. At that age they started winter training at about March right into the season. At 15 it was heavy all year training 3 days a week all winter.
My son has played for as many as 4 teams in a season if you include HS. He lonl tossed every time he hit the field His 2 middle years he did not pitch very often in HS because of his work load with the other teams. Last year he only played with 1 team , his Elite team because he found it too much. We have his arm checked by a specialist and it is in great shape.
I am curiou what you think all this throwing will do to him ?

I think throwing is so important. To be a great pitcher you have to throw. I have heard 60-100 throws a day. I don't know any magic number but the more you do the better as long as your arm feels great. When it gets tired you throw a few more as you wind down. I think mound work is very important.
I am sure he meant it.

OK-Dumb question here but I'll ask anyway. How can pitchers "throw" everyday, long toss, catch etc.. but can't "pitch" everyday? I am just a mom and was a softball pitcher so never an issue but I never did understand this overhand thing. We are careful to let him pitch about every 4 days but he's always playing catch. What's the difference?

I am not opposed to long toss I just am a firm believer in being good and warmed up before throwing any long toss. I just feel that there is no substitute for throwing on the mound. I am involved with travel ball here in Fl with young boys(9-12) and I have witnessed a lot of abuse of young arms just like the rest of yall. I completely agree with the messing up of the release point.

BBFAN that is not a dumb question.
4 day rotation is what my son needs if he throws a lot of pitches. You need to be game ready which is totally different than a bull pen. I found my son had to throw a bull pen in between games to be effective. During the season he lightens the load but still does long toss. If there are 2 games and he is pitching in the 2nd game he does a light warm up in the 1st game but very little throwing. The second game he does a full warm up with Long Toss. Includes running.stretching and long toss. You have to know your body as a pitcher and if the arm is not working you have to back off. His coaches always ask him how he feels after warming up before they will send him out. He will pull himself if he dosen't feel 100%. If your son is a pitcher he must learn to stand up for himself. A good coach will not abuse him. I can say I have never seen a coach abuse him. In the spring the pitchers usually get short assignments. 2-3 innings no matter how well they are doing. Some people don't like it when their son is pulled but in the interest of safety you work them in slowly.
Here is the site of one of the teams my son played for. They run a great all year program.

http://www.leaguelineup.com/welcome.asp?url=niagararebels

The fast ball pitch is a much more natural delivery and real hard on the legs.

Bobblehead-he's very good about telling us if there is a problem and yes, his coaches have him on a pitch count. But, I still don't get the difference between pitching and throwing. To me, it's the same but apparently pitching needs to be monitored and throwing doesn't? I know damage can be done to the rotator and elbow, I just don't see a difference between the two. Must be a blonde (or old age) moment.