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16 replies

Plate Crowding

S Spartan81100+ posts
What are the rules with respect to crowding the plate? Some high schools are doing this to attempt to take away the curveballs (they want their players to get hit), and to give themselves better outside half plate coverage (on the plate and off the plate). They also are trying to intimidate the opposing pitcher, especially by taking away that curveball.

How close can the batter get his back foot to the plate? If his back heel is on the line at the start of the at bat (with toe outside the box but not on the plate), but as he swings he pivots that foot up on the toe and then the back foot is out of the box should he be called out? I don't think umpires can really watch this and I've never seen it called.

Also, can high school batters (under federation rules) wipe away the batters box as they often do in the major leagues? Can the umpire at his discretion have the lines repainted during the game? Can the opposing coach ask the umpire to have the lines redrawn?
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Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
The batter must be in the box before the pitch. This means the foot has to completely inside or on the lines. He can't have his foot touching the line and have part sticking outside the lines. This should be watched by the PU and fixed before the pitch.
If he places his foot on the line with part out as he swings then he is OK. If he places his foot completely outside the box but not on the plate and contacts the ball he is out. If he steps on the plate even if part of his foot is touching the line then he out. This differs from OBR. In OBR his foot has to be completly outside and touching the plate to be out.
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
I forgot the line question. I don't concern myself with line wiping unless I think the batter is gaining an advantage. If I think he is moving too close to the plate, too far forward toward the pitcher or too far back toward the catcher, I will draw a line to let him know I am watching. Many players and coaches believe you can't see that and sometimes you can't. However, sometimes you can and should fix or enforce accordingly.
Rememeber that even if they crowd the plate they still can't get hit in the zone. many batters can leagally stand in the box and hang in the zone. If the ball hits them, it's a dead ball and they stay in the box with a strike on them.
S Spartan81100+ posts
Thanks for your response.

One more question regarding the avoidance of the ball. I've always assumed if you make no move and get hit by a pitch, then the ump does not have to award you first base. But, if you move and attempt to get out of the way, if you are then hit, you get first base.

Now, if you are hanging in the strike zone, and you turn your back inward and the ball hits you, what's the call? You are in the zone, but you did move. By turning inward, you really are bringing more of your body into the zone. Have I answered my own question?
M micmeister500+ posts
We had a situation in Florida last week where our player was hit with a breaking pitch out of the zone after turning his front shoulder away from the pitcher and he was made to stay at the plate (not awarded first base). Is not turning your shoulder in this manner attempting to avoid being hit? What does the rule say? I've seen this being called more and more and I think it leaves too much to the discretion of the Umpire. To me, if you get hit out of the zone you should be awarded first base. What's your opinion?
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
The turn can be considered by the umpire to be attempting to avoid the pitch... however if the turn brings the batter into the strike zone the batter should be held at the plate with a dead ball strike....

When you read the rule books of baseball (you pick which one) you will find that the vast majority of rules are based on umpire judgment.....thats what we get paid for.... the rule books are not the "all seeing" guide that many would like....they rely on someone to make a judgment....and that falls to the umpire....

You are asking for the rule to be called as it is in NCAA....In the NCAA interpretation the batter if hit entirely in the batters box would be entitled to first base without being required to attempt to avoid being hit......

hope this helps....
LonBlue67LonBlue67100+ posts
The batter must attempt to avoid the pitch. An attempt is completely judged by the PU, and personal philosophies come into play, since the rules cannot possibly explain every circumstance that would constitute an attempt.

NCAA says that if the batter is hit in the box, he doesn't have to move at all - he's going to First. I don't call NCAA (sniff) so I can't use that rule.

My personal thought is - if the pitch is well into the box, the pitcher erred, and unless the batter a) doesnt even twitch, or b) deliberately sticks a body part out there to get hit, then he's going to First. I've had both recently, esp poking a knee out to contact the ball...I kept them at bat in both instances.

A batter turning his back and taking a pitch there, when he's completely in the box - First base. Had one last night - fastball well into the box, batter turns, takes it "pow" in the back. Defensive coach: "He's gotta avoid that, blue!" Me: "What do you want him to do, dig a foxhole?"
Last edited by LonBlue67
M micmeister500+ posts
Amen to that (the foxhole thing)! Why the difference from High School to College do you think? To me, if a kid is willing to get plunked to get to first base (provided the pitch is out of the zone) he deserves to get awarded the base.
quote:
Originally posted by LonBlue67:
The batter must attempt to avoid the pitch. An attempt is completely judged by the PU, and personal philosophies come into play, since the rules cannot possibly explain every circumstance that would constitute an attempt.

NCAA says that if the batter is hit in the box, he doesn't have to move at all - he's going to First. I don't call NCAA (sniff) so I can't use that rule.

My personal thought is - if the pitch is well into the box, the pitcher erred, and unless the batter a) doesnt even twitch, or b) deliberately sticks a body part out there to get hit, then he's going to First. I've had both recently, esp poking a knee out to contact the ball...I kept them at bat in both instances.

A batter turning his back and taking a pitch there, when he's completely in the box - First base. Had one last night - fastball well into the box, batter turns, takes it "pow" in the back. Defensive coach: "He's gotta avoid that, blue!" Me: "What do you want him to do, dig a foxhole?"
M micmeister500+ posts
Thanks! I love this site! Glad I found it!
quote:
Originally posted by piaa_ump:
The turn can be considered by the umpire to be attempting to avoid the pitch... however if the turn brings the batter into the strike zone the batter should be held at the plate with a dead ball strike....

When you read the rule books of baseball (you pick which one) you will find that the vast majority of rules are based on umpire judgment.....thats what we get paid for.... the rule books are not the "all seeing" guide that many would like....they rely on someone to make a judgment....and that falls to the umpire....

You are asking for the rule to be called as it is in NCAA....In the NCAA interpretation the batter if hit entirely in the batters box would be entitled to first base without being required to attempt to avoid being hit......

hope this helps....
S Spartan81100+ posts
I started this thread because we have teams (and coaches) who are jamming there guys up on the plate essentially trying to intimidate the competition and to a degree the umpire.

In college the coaches and pitchers would have no trouble buzzing a fastball either into the back or at the chin of players who were deliberately trying to intimidate. Their control is that good, message sent, and normally message understood.

In high school, most coaches are not going to instruct their pitchers to aggressively defend their position. They'll tell them to throw inside, but they aren't going to order up "chin music". Given this, if umpires aren't willing to enforce the rules, then the advantage will go over to the batter/team that crowds the plate.
M micmeister500+ posts
I have to agree with Texan on this one! High School pitchers should take care of this on their own. If you have a guy crowding the plate or hanging over it to get the outside pitch, you have to throw hard up and in until you get your point across. If you plunk the right one, they will get the message!
quote:
Originally posted by Spartan81:
I started this thread because we have teams (and coaches) who are jamming there guys up on the plate essentially trying to intimidate the competition and to a degree the umpire.

In college the coaches and pitchers would have no trouble buzzing a fastball either into the back or at the chin of players who were deliberately trying to intimidate. Their control is that good, message sent, and normally message understood.

In high school, most coaches are not going to instruct their pitchers to aggressively defend their position. They'll tell them to throw inside, but they aren't going to order up "chin music". Given this, if umpires aren't willing to enforce the rules, then the advantage will go over to the batter/team that crowds the plate.

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