Politics

Welcome to, or better yet, good riddance to L.L. politics. In my 1st year with 9yr olds, after 15 with men, college and high schoolers, I was told I was too soft, didn't coach intense enough and bunted and put on too many plays. In 10 yrs there I finished with 137 victories and 51 losses. I could care less about victory at the 9-12 yr group. I also did the 13-16 groups afterwards. Teaching has been very rewarding and I still see many of my former players and its always a hug and a smile from them. Thats the greatest reward, to see that most of them have turned out to be good young men who make a positive contribution to society.

I coached LL ball for 8 years, in the spring, summer and fall seasons, plus all star teams. I coached a travel team for the last 6 of those years. (Yes, my job suffered, but who regrets that?)

I enjoyed all of the experiences in the main, but I know where you're coming from nonetheless. On a recreational team you always end up with a few families by luck of the draw, and without fail, at least one of them has some axe to grind with the world and you get the brunt of it. That's just the price you pay to be involved with that kind of team, but sometimes it went way over the line.

I also found that while there were many good eggs involved in running our LL, they were outnumbered by the kind of officious, bossy folks who like to make up scores of stupid rules just to prove to you that they can.

Travel ball also had its challenges, but by the third year we had parted company with all the troublemakers. The last three years were extremely enjoyable because we had such great support from and camaraderie among the team families. And since we played against only whom we chose, and there was no supervisory hierarchy, we didn't have to deal with all those folks with Napoleon syndrome.

So: Enjoy travel ball. It won't last forever, so make sure you treasure it while it lasts.

There is a place for LL ball, but it is best kept purely recreational, and best left behind after age 12.

Some may not like what i am about to say but I certainly hope what has been said so far is not received by the up and coming Little League coach who is reading this thread as the only point of view on this site.

First, i too have coached for many, many years at all youth age group levels [and slow pitch softball at adult levels, for what it is worth]. There are "the right attitudes" and "the wrong attitudes" as far as coaching at the Little League level [ages 5 to 12] is concerned as I see it at the ripe old age of 60.

To begin with, if winning is the only thing that is important to the coach or even the way by which to measure a coach's 'success', then that is 'the wrong attitude'. If, on the other hand, teaching baseball fundamentals of fielding, hitting, throwing and running are what is primary in the mind of the coach and 'success' is measured by the degree to which EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THAT TEAM was able to improve his baseball skills in fielding, hitting, throwing and running thereby improving his chances to succeed at the next level, then that is 'the right attitude.'

For purposes of illustration, let us open for discussion only one example from the above discussion. The bunt. The sacrifice bunt is often used by some MLB teams in specific situations [e.g. runners on first and second and no outs] and is used by most National League Teams when the pitcher is at the plate and anyone is on base anywhere. Super speedy lead-off batters that have trouble hitting the baseball out of the infield sometimes try to drag-bunt to get one base.

At the College and High School level the bunt is used more often to advance a runner on any base, for a speedy runner to get on first [dragbunt], and as a squeeze play. Other than the sacrifice to advance a runner, at these levels the bunt is promarily used as a surprise tactic.

At the Little League level I have seen the bunt occassionally abused by some coaches. By abused, I mean the following scenario. First batter up, bunts; second up, bunts; third up, bunts; fourth batter hits, if, after his at bat there is no force at home, fifth up bunts, etc., ad infinitum. I have heard this tactic justified by coaches using the following reasoning: "If you can't stop it I am going to keep doing it", "If you would work on bunt coverage more like we do, this would not happen", and, of course, the ultimate bone crunching logic of "We win this way."

OK. Let us take the Little League I am familar with here in West Virginia for our example. Each team will play between 18 and 24 games a year. Assuming 3 to 4 at bats per 6 inning game [let us work with 3.5], that is between 63 and 84 at bats against live peer pitching for that entire year. If you signal a batter to bunt at least once in every game, that batter is, by your 'strategic decision', now limited to between 45 and 60 total at bats for the summer where he can attempt to hit live peer pitching in a real game situation. And if you have the same batter bunt twice in every game, you are now down to between 27 and 36 total at bats for the summer. Then let us further assume that this child is "lucky enough" to have such a coach for 4 years {ages 9 through 12] as is the case in most Little League programs. If so, at the end of his 4 years, for the child at the plate that has averaged one bunt per game for his career, it could be argued that between 63 and 84 at bats where the bater is given the opportunity to actually practice hitting a baseball against live per pitching in a real game situation have been denied him. But, of course, at the end of that time and for what it is worth, he will know how to bunt. The question really is, is he as prepared as he should be to hit at the next level?

By and large I have found Little League Administrators to be "good eggs" and have not found them to be "outnumbered" by "folks who like to make up scores of stupid rules just to prove to you that they can." I have, however, found most [but certainly not all] coaches I have encountered at the Little League level to have their mind focused on things other than teaching every player that they either inherit or draft the fundametals of baseball in a way that will best prepare them to play this wonderful game at the next level.

But, after all, maybe those type of coaches are limited to West Virginia.

TW344

Coach25, politics are everywhere and in every walk in life. There is no avoiding it. However, how you deal with it is the key. I believe what you have to do in ever circumstance is decide who you are and what your values are. After that, you'll always know your direction. JMHO!

I probably overdid it by saying the bad eggs outnumber the good eggs. That's not really so.

But sometimes the bad eggs are pushy, and the good eggs are non-confrontational. Too many well-intentioned volunteer organizations suffer from this malady, and youth leagues are commonly afflicted.

From when a kid starts playing say 5 or 6 to 11-12 it should be making sure that your kid is playing for someone that is teaching proper fundementals and he is getting solid basic instruction on how to properly throw hit and field. If you spend these years only making sure that he is playing on a team that wins and the teaching part is outweighed by the winning part you are only hurting your childs baseball development. As kids get older say 13 and up the coaches that win usually are the ones that teach the fundementals that allow his teams to win. In HS you can not recruit you must play with the cards you are dealt. But you can develop those cards. HS coaches that only win when they clearly outclass the competition and never win when they dont , well you have to be concerned about their ability to teach and coach the game ie develop players. On the other hand HS programs that win year in and year out and always seem to have players that can compete at a high level ,well you need to ask yourself why? The bottom line is be way more concerned with the teaching of the fundementals of hitting throwing and fielding and less about the winning during the early developing stages of baseball. Alot of kids are hurt early in the race to be good baseball players by not properly learning to throw hit and field , especially throwing and hitting at a young age. I would encourage all parents of young players to make sure that the guy coaching your kid is more concerned with teaching than winning.

quote:

From when a kid starts playing say 5 or 6 to 11-12 it should be making sure that your kid is playing for someone that is teaching proper fundementals and he is getting solid basic instruction on how to properly throw hit and field

Coach May, You are right on and I agree but that option is not available in most areas. Like every other player in out area, my son was signed up to play rec ball and was "drafted" by a team and a "dad type" coach that I had never heard of. Another option did come available when he was 11 to play for a 13u travel team and while I did make that choice to go with the travel team, it was not like there were dozens of choices available (more rec ball was the only other choice). Granted there are a few more travel teams today and a few less rec teams but in reality these new tavel teams are the same caliber "dad type" coaches with the same type teams they have just went out and bought fancy uniforms and charge the parents money. What you suggest is very difficult unless a player lives in a baseball hotbed like FL, TX, or CA or gets to be 15-16 years old.
Fungo

TW344,
Here is an example of how our LL went when drafting the all stars. Before I get started a slight bit about myself. I have several years of hard ball and never once have I cared about winning, now i have cared about what was right for the team and the players themselves, teaching fundamentals etc. etc. Now on the other note. When the board members take home votes to count them during the board election and all star election there is something wrong. I'll tell you why! For one all of our board members are related. Second during all star voting there were kids on the all stars that didn't produce all year. Reason why I know this, every time we played a certain team I wrote down the stats for each individual player. Now when it did come time to vote I broke out my trusty book and showed it to every coach voting. Now after our discussion there were some of the coaches with comments of course but they were positive. But when it came time to vote all the coaches that voted compared notes. Now I know this for sure, but for some reason when it came roster time 4 of the players that were put on the roster which were not voted for. the board had taken home all of the ballots and counted them. Now these players for the district all went 0-25 and avg between 1-3 errors a game. Now these kids were board member kids. And some of the coaches were all wondering what happened to the ones they had voted for. I never made any comments until this year but, something needed to be said.

Now everything that you stated is true, I couldn't agree more but for the past few years we have had parents take their children other places because our league is so corrupt.

I have comments made to me on how well I handle the kids and how well me and my other coaches kept their spirits up when we were losing and it paid off. I today still have kids come up to me telling me that I was their favorite coach in little league. I know you cannot make everyone happy but most of the time when things are done farely there isn't any problems.

I was the behind the plate umpiring a HS game once and I heard a father tell his son, the pitcher that he was embarrissing him. I looked at that father and told him one more outburst and he could go to his vehicle. You know this goes on at any level, but degrading a child at any age is wrong no matter what they are doing. I threw a parent out of a little game a few weeks a ago for almost the same thing. After the game I had a talk with the parent and explained to them why I did what I did. Do you known I got a thank you card in the mail a few days later for making them see what this game is actually about. Now, bad eggs are everywhere and in this day and age when your are losing the game true colors show. These are kids, they don't have shoe contracts or make millions just kids and we have gotten away from that.

If you worry about what other people think you should do you are in trouble.

Coach May:

As usual you are right on target. Parents, it is worth the effort to find a Coach like Coach May is talking about rather than complain about the "coach" your son gets if you just sign up for the local league and take whatever comes.

Fungo:

I believe you are limiting the actual options available to other parents out there reading these posts. One is, get involved and coach the team yourself. The other is, find a knowledgable ex-baseball player in your area with the right motivation and experience and persuade him to manage a 'new' travel/rec team that you and other parents will support finiancially, make all the arrangements for and keep insulated from the off the field controversies so that all he has to worry about is practice and game time. I believe this can be accomplished but not without putting forth some effort. With a lot of input and cooperation from others, we did it in rural West Virginia this year and if a brand new competitive 18u travel team can be put together with kids and parents from EIGHT DIFFERENT WEST VIRGINIA COUNTIES it can probably be accomplished anywhere. Of course, if one is not willing to put the work into it [organizing pre-season meetings, evaluating the available and interested talent, talking to respected ex-players, getting parents on board, etc.], one gets what one's child does not deserve.

Midlo Dad:

I agree with you that youth leagues do "suffer" from members and administrators that are "pushy" and have hidden agendas. But, unlike my personal experience with travel/rec teams, most of these organizations are somewhat democratic, in the sense that an election is usually required by the by-laws to be held at least once a year and, if the actions of the "bad eggs" are that atrocious, they can and should be voted out by getting the interested and caring parents to both vote and run against the "bad eggs" on the day/night of the election. This takes effort and one must either determine to work hard enough to change the situation, quit complaining and live with it or, apparently the prefered alternative on this thread, pick up his/her marbles and go play somewhere else.

Coach25:

Since you directed your post to me I feel some obligation to respond.

First, I am sympathetic to your situation regarding the choosing of an all star team. In my experience, this is the most politicized event of the under 12 youth league baseball season. I believe that many good players with true potential for the game are put off forever from playing baseball at the next level SOLELY AND EXCLUSIVELY because they were not chosen for the all star team their last year and should have been. In other words, cavalier and self-interested votes have lasting effects that many who vote based on reasons other than talent either don't realize or, so much worse, don't care.

For years in our youth league only coaches voted for all stars and their vote was final and binding. Then one year we had a domineering coach that had won the league championship who came to the all star meeting insisting that if the 12 kids he had on his list were not choosen for all stars, he would refuse to coach the team. I happened to be the player agent for that age group that year and I simply said to him the following. "You won the championship but the Board of Directors has the authority to vote for whomever they want as All Star Coach. I will take your demand to the Board and see what they say. But we will vote tonight on who deserves to be on the all star team and not on approving your list."

The following year this same coach won the league championship again and came to the all star meeting after a collusive secret meeting with two other coaches [in a 5 team league] having agreed amongst themselves to vote only for their own players and not for any other player from either of the other teams [except for one pitcher who dominated the league]. The only reason this ****able conspiracy came to light is because he and one of the two co-conspirators decided not to vote for two of the kids on the third conspirators team that they had all agreed to vote for and the third conspirator rated them out. We have since changed the rules so that the Board of Directors has the final approval on who is chosen for the all star teams at various levels and, I have to say IMHO, it has actually tended to work out better than when only coaches voted.

I am glad you agree with me that, certainly in youth leagues for 12 and under, winning is not the most important thing. Teaching the fundamentals of baseball is what it is all about. The primary focus of the good coach is to work with EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON HIS TEAM throughout the course of an entire season to make him as good a player as he can be during that period of time that the player is under his tutelage. I too have had many kids come up to me in a store or a public place and tell me how much they appreciated me as a coach. You might find this strange but I find it more rewarding somehow if it is a young man who never played baseball after youth league who says that than the ones who started for their high school team. Perhaps that is just me.

TW344

TW344, I agree with you. I see no problems in seeking out a great coach at the 18u level but Coach May was talking about kids from 5 to 12 years old. My son had no options at 5 to 12 as I'm sure you didn't have many in your area. If a 6 year old want to play baseball here he goes to the LL or Dixie Youth tryouts and gets picked by a "dad coach" with little or no knowledge of baseball. I think what you did with an 18u team is possible just about anywhere as I eluded to in my post

quote:

---- is very difficult unless a player lives in a baseball hotbed like FL, TX, or CA or gets to be 15-16 years old---.

Lot of difference in getting picked by a little league team with a great coach at 6 years old and finding one when your son is 15 to 18 years old.
Fungo

Wish I had the time to coach kids at 6 years old. Coached the older ones but am fascinated by the little kids.

Wouldn't be any poiltics at all. The ones I liked the most are the ones I'd try to help have the most fun.

This Saturday we have a free home run derby for all age groups at a Minor League Park. Everyone wins a T-Shirt and will receive compliments. There will be no losers! I'm especially looking forward to the 8&U and 6&U groups. We will have some former Big League guys "coaching" but they won't teach a thing. They're just there to give the kids a pat on the back and try to get them to smile.

In our LL we finally gave up hoping that the Coaches would be fair when picking the All Stars. News flash. . . They will vote their interests. We now have the players pick the All Star teams. The coaches still vote, but their vote is the same value as a player. Not only did the players get it right (trust me, they know who the good players are) but last year our Majors All Star team won District. First time since 1982.

Kauf

Kauf

What is fair? Perhaps picking the best players? Yes in a perfect world that would happen but we all know that it is not a perfect world. Life is not fair and the way all star or tournament teams are chosen is no different. Players who get the short end of the stick have to perserver because believe it or not there comes a time when talent is talent and those who evaluate dont care where you came from who you played for. In this case the hardest part is getting through the BS along the way.

Years ago, when I was a rookie working for AT&T, someone complained that getting promoted was all about politics and that wasn’t fair. A mid-level manager who I respected said the following:

It is about politics but that’s fair. Her logic was that Everyone knew it was about politics thus making it “fair”.

We all would like to get away from all this stuff but it is real….and not just for 12U. My son cried one year when he had an outstanding season and failed to make the All-star team - he deserved to make the team.

I’m not a coach, but I saw that I needed to get “plugged” in to the association. I painted dugouts, cut grass, and did whatever.

It is sad that sometimes it is not how good your son is but how well you are connected – it happens at the HS level as well.

Is it fair, yes, because everyone knows the rules.

Should it be this way – NO

Gotta go now, I’m power washing the HS dugout

Catcher 09

A good question how in certain cases did it get that way. Having coached high school for over 25 years I was friendly to parents. There was no parents club or booster club. They were welcome to come to the games and that was that. It worked well.I played the best players. I never had to worry about who did what and how much. Nobody could say so and so is playing because his father is this or that. They might have said other things but never that. The coaches job is to put the best talent he has on the field. Period.

Will, your right but down in our area we have boster clubs that raise 10s of thousands of dollars per year. It really is getting business like and that at times drives the wrong behavior. The Atlanta Braves would be proud to play on our field. There is another school thats budget just for field Maint. is about $50K per year, Crazy I know.

As an old timer I could tell you about some of the fields I played on as a youth. Did not know any better. Today I see the kids have more and more but to be honest talent is talent no matter if your playing on a well manicured field or one with rocks and broken glass.

Will


I am with you---I remember playing on fields that had beach sand at each base---wuite an adventure for sure

At my HS we didnt even have a fence in the outfield - if you hit a gapper you just ran and ran - fun times!

Are we showing our age? Maybe what you do not have you do not miss. Way back you tried out for a team. There were cuts. no dh no rentry no 10 run rule. Coaches were tough on you. Parents )if they had the time) watched. Everybody did not get a trophy. Equipment was a blessing. Your Dad bought you a glove and you used it for years. there were pick up games down at the field. A hard ball was like gold. You played until the cover came off then you taped it and taped it etc etc pretty soon it weighed a ton. there might be 1 bat and if it cracked you ran home got a couple nails and banged away along with a little tape you were ready to go. And there was no booster club as a matter of fact there was no coaches or umpires. How did we survive

quote:

there might be 1 bat and if it cracked you ran home got a couple nails and banged away along with a little tape you were ready to go

Will, we were high tech - we used screws

Will,

"Fair" in Little League All Star player selection means "no blatant collusion from the vote casters" (limit the politics). Leaving the All Star team selection solely in the hands of 7 or 8 Managers was a disaster. They just couldn't help themselves from boycotting certain kids (usually as retribution directed at a parent) or voting a significantly weaker kid on to the team (buddy or kid pick).

I realize that no matter what selection system is used, there will always be a "next player" on the list who is disappointed. We just felt compelled to spread this important decision over a much larger voting base. The thinking is that the more votes you have, the more likely it is that you will get a "fairer" result. As was mentioned earlier, the kids know who the best players are and in our league they got it right. Best of all there wasn't even a hint of politics around the selection.

Some warned before the vote that it would be a popularity contest. While there may have been some players who only voted for their friends, that gets totally washed out looking at the total vote counts. It was obvious who were the All Stars, they received 60-95 votes (out of 120), yes, no player received all 120 votes. There was however a clear demarcation between the All Stars and the buddy votes who typically had 10-20 total votes.

Did I mention that our player selected team won our District last year. First time since 1982.

Go Kids!!!