POLL

I'm not divulging how I voted but not only do I think that any vote should not be unanimous, I also feel the question is very loaded. Even the bat manufacturers would agree that metal bats are potentially more dangerous due to the bigger sweet spot thus increasing the chance for injury, so only a fool would vote otherwise.

Is there a difference between maple and ash? Is one more reactive, does either have a larger sweet spot? This topic is so deep with so many alternate directions of discussion that I don't feel that any poll will satisfy all interests.

If could vote again without anyone knowing how I voted the first time, I would still say there is "no difference" because it's the only answer that satisfies my opinion of small diamond use because I don't feel it is a safety issue at 7-12 year old ages. You can show me examples all day but if it was all wood I could show the same injuries. If there is a safety issues for people at that age they should focus on using a soft ball. IMHO

One thing I've always hated about surveys, is my answer doesn't appear. Good try though PG.

My answer is use wood bats because it is a better game, IMO.

for the safety of pitchers, yeas wood bats are safer. but wood bat in high school, bad idea. IMO. the high school players that play year round and use wood bats know how to hit with them, but the average high school team has players that are just there just cause they injoy it. lots of bats would break and it would get expensive.

now for college, i think a switch should be seriously considered.

the poll is rigged! lol my answer is yes, but there is more to it than just safety.

When my son was 9 10 years old and swinging a metal bat and those other kids were only 60 65 feet away I used to cringe everytime he swung. And he was not the only kid that could hit it so hard the ball would be past the fielder before he could ever react to the ball coming off the bat. He does the same thing with metal now but the fielders are older and smarter and they can get deep on the skin to have more reaction time. Metal bats are just as dangerous at the youth level if not more. We played AAU and kids at 9u 10u were hitting the ball out of 250'fences all the time. I would like to know why anyone "Wants to keep them".

Coach,
Take away your 9u and 10u AAU players and give me some data on many players that don't even hit their weight in regular LL. Put wood in their hands with LL pitching and the scorecard would read 1-3 way to much of the time.

We use wood for our showcase BP and give instruction on wood bat use before the sessions and we use wood almost exclusively in tournaments---of the 24 we purchase we break but 3 0r 4 in a season---ther eare ways to make it work---by the way a ghood maple bat can be gotten for 55 or so dollars which makes roughly 5 for the price of an aluminum bat and aluminum breaks as well

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We use wood for our showcase BP and give instruction on wood bat use before the sessions

Who's going to instruct the millions of kids who do not have the resources to teach them how to swing wood. Even at the college to pro level they say players have "wood" problems. It is an art, and like any art, if you don't grasp it you move on to what you can grasp.

Get the kids invovled with some success in the "tangled web we weave" and then teach them the fine points. Like I've said before our kids are probably the exception to the rule as far as ability, I'm concerned about the others.

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Originally posted by rz1:

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We use wood for our showcase BP and give instruction on wood bat use before the sessions

Who's going to instruct the millions of kids who do not have the resources to teach them how to swing wood.

Where is Linear?

How silly of me to forget

RZ you are right. There is a big difference in alot of kids at that age. I just pulled out a stat book from my sons 9 year old rec team he played on one year while playing AAU on the weekends. WOW! I guess I should have thought about the average kid before I posted that. And sometimes our memories are not that good. On that team there were 15 players. They play 16 games. Three players were hitless on the year. Seven were under .200. All but one was under .300. And that is with some liberal scoring you get with rec league ball. So your point is well taken. Maybe the way to start this thing is to promote wood only at the AAU level and the Select Ball level. You know PG only uses wood. Maybe its time for you AAU people and Select people to introduce wood to prepare for WWBA events and TR's events. Last summer and fall my sons Showcase team played almost all wood. The reasoning was we were preparing for WWBA events and needed to use wood to do so. I do remember when my son was 13 14 he played in some AAU tourneys that were wood only events. Thanks RZ for waking up my memory.

Coach that's been my only point from the get-go. I am a wood guy at heart. Our memories focus on quality not quantity.

RZ


When I was a kid we learned how to hit with wood on our own---it was all we had---I think we are making too much of this aspect


LL can run preseason clinics
HS can run instruction sessions

It aint that hard folks if you want to make the effort---there must be a wood bat company in your region who might be willing to help you out

TR,

#1 HS could adapt in my book. However, I think you are giving to much credit to those other groups accross the board to run quality sessions, and the parents to participate.

RZ


we ran annual sessions in our LL with skilled instructors in all aspects of the game--it can be done if those concerned want to make it happen

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Originally posted by rz1:
Coach that's been my only point from the get-go. I am a wood guy at heart. Our memories focus on quality not quantity.

The starting catcher on my son's HS team sophmore year went 0-62 on a .500 team. He was endangering no one, poor child.

Tom,

Whether you want to believe it or not, you are an exception to the rule also. If we could clone the TR's and PG's of the world this would not even be a discussion. Outside your box it is an inept baseball world when looking at the population as a whole. If it wasn't we would be swinging wood now, instead, they are looking at bat makers for direction. That is inept.

RZ


I am not the exception---I grew up as a kid is a great baseball town--we had a semi pro team that played under lights in the 50's---my LL coach played in the Dodgers minor league with Jackie Robinson and Chuck Connors---my dad was a semi pro catcher--- my kids grew up in a town thatw as sports oriented--we ran clinics continually and the town and schools worked with us---No--I am not the exception unless working harder than others and putting solid instruction teams together makes that so---we even had a 12 year old team that traveled and was fully supported by a lcoal restaurant

Dad 04
If he was 0 for 62 he must have been an incredible catcher
If coach would have just given him that 63rd at bat I'll betcha he'd have showed 'em something....

Bottom Line:

Wood only...at all ages.

It's what we did in the 50's and 60's at all levels.

Who cares if all the outs are 1-3?

Lets concentrate on kids that can play, whether they are 8-9 or in HS!

Here's my two bits on wood and metal.
Wood bat tournament: get there early, your game will probably start before the posted time.
Metal bat tourney: send someone over and call them on the cell phone to find out how many hours they are behind schedule. (I heard Jim Lefevre call them "Electric Bats" at a clinic once)

TR,

If I have to meet you in the parking lot and prove that you are an exception, so be it!

Your baseball community was built over time, and time cannot be made-up at the snap of a finger. I'll buy the fact you did not plant the first seed, but you do trim and maintain the forest.

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Originally posted by TRhit:
When I was a kid we learned how to hit with wood on our own---it was all we had---I think we are making too much of this aspect

I have to agree 100%!

Jeez! Some of you guys sound as though the change would be to a piece of water soaked log that not only weighed 4 pounds, but broke at the slightest impact off the sweet spot!

Kids do not need a drop 13 bat in order to be able to hit a ball, even the ones with the poorest of skills. They might be able to have a better chance if the bat FELT like it was a –13, but one of the great things about baseball is, you’re allowed to tinker with the bats to a certain degree.

In doing that, it is more than possible to make a wood bat feel like a –13, or at least close to it, and at the same time, not lose the 10or so ounces of mass.

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Soxnole quote:
Lets concentrate on kids that can play, whether they are 8-9 or in HS!

blow off the rest and send them to pasture on a socker field.

I thought this was Americas game and pastime? As Americans don't we live by change, technology, and opinion. If the masses say metal, does that make them wrong? Or because we are the parents of good players our opinions should determine the issues.

Unfortunatly it's a marketing supply and demand example at it's finest.

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Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
Dad 04
If he was 0 for 62 he must have been an incredible catcher
If coach would have just given him that 63rd at bat I'll betcha he'd have showed 'em something....

He actually had a good bit of trouble receiving and could not throw me out at 2nd. Someone taught him to run and back up first on every play and he just sorta faked it, by default, for 4 years. He talked a good game, though. You'd swear he was All=State after chatting.

Dad 04:
I'm feeling ya. Ouch...

It is a wonder the game of baseball survived before the invention of the metal bat.

The success rate of learning a foriegn language when initiated at an age of 5-6 is considerablly higher than when compared with a starting age of 14-15. Wood bat usage should begin in T-ball so that the earliest experiences mold the skill requirement. By introducing wood at the entry level you will eliminate the comparison of reduced performance or percieved disadvantage versus metal.
Kids don't begin playing because they are good, they begin because of interest be it theirs or their parents.
Unfortunately, strong need is placed on winning and the transition to an inferior product is not acceptable if every one else has the advantage of metal. Even the most knowledgeable and earnest pro wood advocates equip their own children with metal within the metal competitions. Fear of being at an disadvantage outweighs their desire for increased safety and skill development that wood would allow.
The game of baseball started with wood and should be played with wood and the migration back to all wood all the time must begin at the earliest stage of participation so that everyone, kids and parents, feel as though the playing field is level. And don't know anything different. Approach your individual youth leagues and propose that the entry level group begin to use wood bats and start the movement on a grass roots level billing it as an advantage in training the next Babe Ruth or Willie Mays. Forget the safety issue and create a demand by the suggestion that it is the BEST way to develop their children into professionals. Convince a few parents that their childs road to the Major Leagues begins with using wood now and you will find some of the most staunch supporters of the idea. Young parents are the way to change.
Using metal to play baseball is like using a calculator to do math, it may be easier but it doesn't refine your skills.

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Convince a few parents that their childs road to the Major Leagues begins with using wood now and you will find some of the most staunch supporters of the idea.

Then throw in the fact that you will need full committment for 10+ years and less than 1% of the kids are beginning their baseball lives will reach that level and see smiles go to frowns.

Again I agree with everyone but am wearing a realists face and adding those counterpoints to the discussion.

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I'm not divulging how I voted but not only do I think that any vote should not be unanimous,

You sound kinda like the guy who voted against Gwynn and Ripkin for the HOF.

RZ we've disagreed on this issue in the past, but I'm finding myself agreeing with just about everything you've said here. It is more about the big field and less an issue for the 12U game.

On the other hand, there are still lots of options at that age (talent wise) and 3-1 games might have a big appeal to many, especially young pitchers! Shouldn't we be just just as concerned with developing young arms as we are with developing young hitters? I'm not saying wood only at the younger ages, just options for wood only.

And as was pointed out, the kids want so much to emulate their idols. Since those guys use wood, if it were marketed to them appropriately the kids themselves would gravitate towards using wood. JMHO

okay maybe its cuase i see a different side of this than you all do.

I am a volunteer coach for an inner city Dallas High school. My father(an ex-high school headcoach) and i coach rec teams in the dallas area. Believe me when i say wood bats will NOT work. believe it or not, there are alot of teams that have one bat that the whole team uses, and not all the palyers are bad. some of theses kids go on to play college.

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You sound kinda like the guy who voted against Gwynn and Ripkin for the HOF.

Tony's voice was to weird for me and I never liked birds .

You hit the key word "marketed". We got to this stage because of marketing. I don't remember but I'll bet there were some of the same arguments going on when metal came on board. Then the bat manufacturers got enough data to understand the profit margin and the rest was history. Since then they've buried money into r&d and it will be a cold day in hiell before they walk away without recouping those dollars. I'm sure there is more to this market than bats and that r&d money goes across a vast metal product line but my bet is that baseball bat mark-up recoups a lot of that investment. You don't chew off the hand that feeds you and dollars are already budgeted to negate any grassroot consumer challenge. From strictly a business standpoint, can you blame them for their approach? I can't and I doubt their stockholders can either.

As far as developing young arms that is easily done with pitch counts and max innings in a time frame as there are no arguments when using numbers without intagibles.

I just wanted to spew some Marketing 101.....

In several of the Wood/Metal threads, economics have been raised. The comments have been along the lines of "We can get 3 maple bats for the price of 1 aluminum bat". Now don't get me wrong because I'm all in favor of using wood, especially for 13u and up and especially for the select/elite/premier level travel teams (AAU, USSSA, Triple Crown, etc).

But IF there were changes and this all came to fruition, take a guess as to what will happen to the price of those $40 - $70 wood bats?

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But IF there were changes and this all came to fruition, take a guess as to what will happen to the price of those $40 - $70 wood bats?

...oh and not to mention the new and improved gel grips or super sonic multi colored laquer! ha!

This family of mine,..we are old school and prefer wood,..for multiple reasons.

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But IF there were changes and this all came to fruition, take a guess as to what will happen to the price of those $40 - $70 wood bats?

Beezer, That could be the best point made in the whole wood bat discussion.

Wood bats now use the best quality wood with the smallest profit margin as a marketing point. Eliminate the metal competition and who knows what type of product you will end up with. Remember, the same minds that created the metal product will now being leading the wood market. We don't like their direction now, do you think that they will change their direction with a different product? The new r&d will be directed to toward Scorekeeper's assertion where he can change the characteristics of a wood bat to mimick a metal. Sounds like it wouldn't be long before a "mega-wood" is developed and we are right back where we started and the only thing that goes away is the "ping". Don't underestimate the power of technology when it is consumer driven.

you all make good points. if it weren't for the money aspect it should be wood .i know that some teams have one metal bat and it will last all year. maybe two. but we all learned to use wood ,so will these kids. yea it may be a little harder at first but they will all get used to it.we did. it may be 40 years later but its the same game.if you can hit you can hit,if you can't you can't.wood or metal doesn't matter in my opinion.

If wood only bats were used at all levels would interest in the sport be lower. Less POP in the bat more weak infield ground balls and Infield flys instead of base hits???just wondering

Wood bats mean "real" baseball, at all levels

no baseball is baseball no matter what the bat is.

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Originally posted by rz1:
Beezer, That could be the best point made in the whole wood bat discussion.

Why thank you sir. I was actually writing it when you made your comment (or even before) but got sidetracked due to work and forgot to hit submit.