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I've coached HS ball, and I definately feel a responsibilty to help my players get to the next level, whether it be with skills or contacts that I have, I will do everything in my power to get a deserving kid the best opportunity for success at the next level.
Any HS coach that did not feel that it was not only part of his job but a big part of his job to help deserving kids find a place to play at the next level should not be coaching. Why would any player or parent want their kid to play for a coach in HS that felt anyother way?
Having a kid come back from college for a visit with the "old program" is a great moment. To know how hard you worked for him and know he appreciates it, makes it all worth it.
Right on Coach Merc. I remember last year during Easter break coming up to the field for a Saturday practice and seeing one of our former players standing at the dugout in his new college baseball gear. Hat jacket the whole nine yards. To see how proud he was of the stuff he had on and to know that I had a small part in him having the opportunity to continue doing something he loves to do. That is priceless for us as coaches and for the player. Your **** right its part of your job. A big part.
At the JuCo I am at, everyone on the coaching staff feels personally responsible for moving every player onto a 4 year University. I feel if we do not then we have failed to do our job. I have been with the school 2 1/2 years and so far every sophomore has moved onto a 4 year school.
O42
O42
Yes, it is a part of our job although it isn't in any job description that I've ever read for a high school coach. Four of my five Seniors two years ago and five of my six seniors last year had places to play. I have 3 of my upcoming seniors committed. Now, I have to work on the rest. Naturally, there are those players that don't want to continue playing. That was the case with the seniors I didn't get offers for in the past two years. This year will be a major struggle getting a couple of my seniors a place to play. JMHO!
I am in agreement with the coaches.
I have been actively marketing my seniors with college coaches since the end of last year's season. Sending them to workouts, camps and showcases.
3 seniors already committed, 1 more about to commit and 2 undecided. 6 out of 7, I am happy for the players as they have worked hard.
I know there are coaches out there that do not spend the time writing letters, e-mails and countless phone calls as I have helped players from other programs get their foot in the door with college scouts and coaches. It's unfortunate, but a fact of life. I am sure there are a lot of parents out there that know this all too well.
Hats off to the majority of coaches that take the time to help their players reach their goal of playing baseball at the next level.
Coach Merc and May's comments are right on the money!
I have been actively marketing my seniors with college coaches since the end of last year's season. Sending them to workouts, camps and showcases.
3 seniors already committed, 1 more about to commit and 2 undecided. 6 out of 7, I am happy for the players as they have worked hard.
I know there are coaches out there that do not spend the time writing letters, e-mails and countless phone calls as I have helped players from other programs get their foot in the door with college scouts and coaches. It's unfortunate, but a fact of life. I am sure there are a lot of parents out there that know this all too well.
Hats off to the majority of coaches that take the time to help their players reach their goal of playing baseball at the next level.
Coach Merc and May's comments are right on the money!
One thing is for sure--we don't coach for the money !!!!!
Money cannot buy the thanx and smile on the players faces when it all works for them
Money cannot buy the thanx and smile on the players faces when it all works for them
AMEN TRhit!
quote:Do you, as a coach, feel an obligation to actively help/promote deserving players to the next level?
Most of the HS coaches I know resent the fact that they are pressured to promote their players to the next level. They really hate it when the parents get on their case about it.
These coaches are good guys and they really put their hearts into it - but their blood is left on the field, not on the altar of parental pressure or recruitment absurdities.
Glider, welcome to the High School Baseball Web. This website is a fantastic resource, and I'm sure you'll find plenty to benefit from here, and others will be interested in hearing what you have to contribute.
While I understand what you say about most of the HS coaches you know not wanting to help their kids get to the next level, I don't agree with your second comment about them leaving it all on the field. In my opinion, that is a cop out on the part of the coach. Any good coach will have the interests of his players as a main concern, not just winning the next high school game. The lessons the kids learn from their HS baseball experiences will be carried with them beyond their high school years. Coaches who don't realize this are very narrow minded, or worse.
While I understand what you say about most of the HS coaches you know not wanting to help their kids get to the next level, I don't agree with your second comment about them leaving it all on the field. In my opinion, that is a cop out on the part of the coach. Any good coach will have the interests of his players as a main concern, not just winning the next high school game. The lessons the kids learn from their HS baseball experiences will be carried with them beyond their high school years. Coaches who don't realize this are very narrow minded, or worse.
If you have to be pressured by parents to help the kids that have the ability and desire to play at the next level then why are you coaching in the first place? How does leaving your (blood on the field) have anything to do with helping kids fullfill their dreams of playing at the next level? If your trying imply that you somehow are distracted from preparing your team for winning by the attempts to get kids in school you are totally off base. Lets see I have to go to practice and prepare my team I dont have time to make phone calls , send in questionaires , send emails etc. Thay may be one of the weakest cop outs I have ever heard. Coaches that do not promote their kids and prepare their kids for the next level ( the ones that have the ability and desire have no legitimate excuse ). The fact is they are lazy and do not care. Sorry if this offends anyone but coaches that do not do their job offend me.
Hey, How much do you guys want, as a group, to help me get my kid to the next level???!!! 
Hmmm. Where to start? How about with the "blood on the field" part:
A decent, but not fanatic, HS coach has the best interests of his kids at heart. He thinks they are at school to learn academic subjects, and sports are part of the rouding out process. He thinks that if these kids understand the proper priorities, they will not demand to get to the next level. Perhaps they will be mature enough to know that the next ball level is about extraordinary ability, and not about entitlement. This coach knows that he gives it all he has on the field, but he avoids providing an easy climb up the staircase,
via promotional stuff, because he wants the kids to experience failure and triumph in the same time zone. Bolied down, it is called character development. This not a cop out, by any means. It is about being an adult, and resisting the impulsive demands of kids and their parents. In fact, I would say that giving in to the pressure is not only a cop out, but also destructive to the kids' sense of a mature self.
A solid coach will not lose sight of the forest for the trees.
A decent, but not fanatic, HS coach has the best interests of his kids at heart. He thinks they are at school to learn academic subjects, and sports are part of the rouding out process. He thinks that if these kids understand the proper priorities, they will not demand to get to the next level. Perhaps they will be mature enough to know that the next ball level is about extraordinary ability, and not about entitlement. This coach knows that he gives it all he has on the field, but he avoids providing an easy climb up the staircase,
via promotional stuff, because he wants the kids to experience failure and triumph in the same time zone. Bolied down, it is called character development. This not a cop out, by any means. It is about being an adult, and resisting the impulsive demands of kids and their parents. In fact, I would say that giving in to the pressure is not only a cop out, but also destructive to the kids' sense of a mature self.
A solid coach will not lose sight of the forest for the trees.
Getting ready to go to school and teach.
Once I get done in the classroom, (in season) I am out on the field with my players. After practice, games, I am at home sending e-mails, letters and phone calls. I am up late at night and many other coaches I know are in the same boat. We don't get paid to be up late at
night, we do it because we have pride in our respective programs and the players that make up our programs. Their dedication to the game is the driving force.
I don't understand the comment of "easy climb" as getting to the next level is no easy climb by any stretch. Ask any parent trying to get their son to the next level.
I share Coach May's sentiments...
Once I get done in the classroom, (in season) I am out on the field with my players. After practice, games, I am at home sending e-mails, letters and phone calls. I am up late at night and many other coaches I know are in the same boat. We don't get paid to be up late at
night, we do it because we have pride in our respective programs and the players that make up our programs. Their dedication to the game is the driving force.
I don't understand the comment of "easy climb" as getting to the next level is no easy climb by any stretch. Ask any parent trying to get their son to the next level.
I share Coach May's sentiments...
Character Development has as much to do with a coach setting the right example with his own behavior and leadership as it does with trying to demonstrate to the kids there are other priorities in life besides baseball. In my opinion, part of my behavior and leadership for the boys who play baseball with me is to show them the importance of helping others out. I call, email or write college coaches for any of my boys who wish to have assistance, and for some who've never asked. That is, again my opinion, providing a life lesson to my players about helping others out. That's an example of how I wish for them to go forward, helping others when given the opportunity.
I also strongly encourage my older players to help the younger players, reminding them that when they were younger, some older player helped them and now it is their obligation to pass it along to the kids that are following in their footsteps. I tell the older guys that the younger kids look up to them and will follow their leadership, good or bad, and I think that expecting them to be good examples for the younger guys builds character in the older players at an age where they are still developing it and trying to better understand the concept.
It doesn't take very much to be a high school coach who only worries about his players during the spring season. There is far more to life, and baseball, than just trying to win your league. Many, many high school coaches are excellent, but some don't have a clue about helping others get beyond their current level, whether in baseball, education or life. Those people shouldn't be coaching.
I also strongly encourage my older players to help the younger players, reminding them that when they were younger, some older player helped them and now it is their obligation to pass it along to the kids that are following in their footsteps. I tell the older guys that the younger kids look up to them and will follow their leadership, good or bad, and I think that expecting them to be good examples for the younger guys builds character in the older players at an age where they are still developing it and trying to better understand the concept.
It doesn't take very much to be a high school coach who only worries about his players during the spring season. There is far more to life, and baseball, than just trying to win your league. Many, many high school coaches are excellent, but some don't have a clue about helping others get beyond their current level, whether in baseball, education or life. Those people shouldn't be coaching.
quote:It doesn't take very much to be a high school coach who only worries about his players during the spring season
"It doesn't take very much to be a high school coach who only worries about his players during the spring season."
I only pick this quote out as an example of what I have been hearing.
It takes a LOT of effort and dedication to coach a team on the field. The coach needs to deal with the fundamentals, field conditions, fund raising, player attitudes, pushy parents, educational issues (i.e. grades), critical ADs, cliques, team spirit, etc. Such a 'normal' coach should NOT be criticized as lazy or uninterested in kids. He can be, and often is, a shining example of an adult trying to raise kids.
Much of the promotion stuff is about recruitment. A coach who develops a pipeline to the next level oftentimes think it will help "build the program". Translation: The coach gets the better players from the lower level, because the parents figure it is an easier road to the next level. This distortion of the concept of the 'level playing field' corrupts the whole system.
Suppose ALL promotional efforts by coaches were banned by the high schools? My logic suggests to me that it would allow a better chance for the good HS players to try to achieve based on merit, not contacts. Although the exceptional players will almost always be found, there is a second level of good players that are often overlooked by the next level - they would need to play a lot of summer ball, go to tryouts, etc. to be 'discovered'. I would bet that the next level would be better than it is today, if they had a larger, and fairer, sample to look at.
Please don't diss the HS coaches who are trying to do the right thing. It sounds arrogant to me.
Why can't you do both? Why is helping kids that have the ability and the desire to play at the next level not part of the overall job? To say that if you work hard for your kids to get to the next level that you are somehow missing the point of what HS athletics is all about is off base. You teach the game to the players. Through the teaching of the game you teach life lessons that last them a lifetime. You have players that love the game and just want to play at the HS level with no desire of continueing past HS. Thats fine its not for everyone. You have players that do not have the desire to play past high school and or the talent. Thats fine its just a fact. Then you have players that have a burning desire to continue their careers to the next level. And they have the talent to do so. These kids deserve a coach that will do whatever he can to see that their dreams come true. It is my experience that the coaches that work hard for their players have players that work hard for the program. Coaches that work hard for their players work hard on their field. Work hard to make sure that the guys academics are in order. (All of them). They take great pride in the job that they do. They take pride in preparing kids for college baseball by working hard on fundementals and the finer aspects of the game. I have not met a coach in HS that was an outstanding baseball coach and was a clown as far as working for his kids. Quite the contrary the coaches that work hard for their kids to move on to the next level are the the coaches that take pride in the job that they do period. Maybe some of you have had an experience where you felt the coach was only interested in the more talented kids and wether or not they got in college to play. And you felt slighted by the fact that yours did not. I dont know. But again how is it a negative when a coach works hard to help his kids move on to the next level? This is ridiculous to me quite honestly. Is there anyone else here that sees this as ridiculous or not. If not ok. I guess I need to leave this one alone and just keep shaking my head.
One last thing. Promotional efforts? Excuse me but coaches that promote players that can not play are not taken seriously and hurt players more than they help them. Helping kids is about being honest with them. It works like this. If you have a kid that can play you call someone, write them, email them, fill out that questionaire. Then someone comes and watches them play. If they like what they see there you go. Once you have developed a great reputation for being honest and truthfull about your kids your word becomes a powerfull thing for your players. Once you have developed a reputation for not being truthfull about players ability you hurt them because people will not believe you and will be skeptical. In todays baseball world kids can take alot of this on their own shoulders. Attend PG events, local showcase events, go to college camps etc. They can promote themselves. It sounds like to me you are concerned that your son or someones son will not get his props because the coach only promotes the (studs) and not all the players that have the ability to play at the next level. If this is the case then do the work yourself if the coach will not do it. We feel that it is our job to see that every kid that has the desire and talent to play at the next level gets the opportunity. Coaches that leave it to chance because they dont want upset a parent are lacking some *****.
Coach May
I am on the same page as you are---it is all part of the job
Perhaps how Glider feels is the reason college coaches and pro scouts would rather talk with those who run summer and fall travel programs and the few HS coaches they respect and trust
I totally agree with you Coach May-- promote a kid who does not have the goods and you lose all credibility--promote the kids who deserve it and your credibility is intact and perhaps a kid with lesser talent has a great day when they come to see the so called "stud". The fall out for all concerned can be unreal if the "promotion" is done correctly.
There is no room for "BS" --- it is a very REAL WORLD out there
I am on the same page as you are---it is all part of the job
Perhaps how Glider feels is the reason college coaches and pro scouts would rather talk with those who run summer and fall travel programs and the few HS coaches they respect and trust
I totally agree with you Coach May-- promote a kid who does not have the goods and you lose all credibility--promote the kids who deserve it and your credibility is intact and perhaps a kid with lesser talent has a great day when they come to see the so called "stud". The fall out for all concerned can be unreal if the "promotion" is done correctly.
There is no room for "BS" --- it is a very REAL WORLD out there
quote:Why can't you do both?
"Why can't you do both?"
Well, why does a coach need to do both? He can just do the essential part, as I have previously described, and feel good about it. Why is this a problem?
I'll tell you why a coach needs to do both. First of all the job of coaching your team. I think we all agree that he needs to do that. Right? The other part is seeing that your players that have the ability and the desire to play at the next level get the opportunity. Well lets talk about that for a moment. The sure fire high level D-1 prospect in your program is not going to need alot of help from his HS coach. He is the obvious stud that will get the opportunity from the sheer fact that he can play. Then there are the kids that can play at the D-1 level or D-2 D-3 JUCO or community college level. But maybe these kids dont stand out well above the rest. Lets just say they are not blue chippers so to speak. Do you have any idea how college coaches find out about HS players? Very few college coaches scout HS games. They do not have the time and or resources to go to an abundance of games. And they are not going to just go to a random game hoping to see someone. A HS coach that has a player that can play at the next level wether it be D-1 or community college has to make contacts to ensure that people see him play, learn about his make up, grades etc. With all the summer and fall travel teams, showcase teams, combines and showcase events more and more kids are getting looked at and getting their names out there. This has helped kids out tremendously. Some kids do not have this opportunity for various reasons. Maybe they have to work and can not play on these teams. Maybe they are from families that do not have the funds available to send them to any of these events. Maybe they play other sports which prohibit them from playing. ETC ETC. Your saying that the coach should just hope that someone hears about this kid and gives him a chance. I say that its too much of a chance that he will get overlooked. I dont want to take that chance with a kids future and I wont. I dont have to worry about the kid thats 6'4 and throws 90. But what about the other kids that will slip under the radar if you do not get them in front of the right people? It will be assumed by the college coaches that you do not have anyone that can help them if you do reach out to them and tell them you do. Then its up to them to perform. But at least I got them an opportunity. You can do both and you should do both. Why? Because its the right thing to do and you can. There is no legitimate reason for not doing it. Your logic makes no sense , period. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are talking about something that you quite honestly have not experience in or understanding of. My last post on this.
This is my first year playing High school baseball.I have to say my head coach has almost been like a 2nd father to me.As for the other players on the team(juniors,seniors) he is at just about every workout they have or every camp they attend for the next level.
If a HS baseball coach isnt passionate about getting his players to the next level than hes in baseball for the worng reasons
If a HS baseball coach isnt passionate about getting his players to the next level than hes in baseball for the worng reasons
I was pretty content with my son's HS coach. He did not promote. His teams were pretty strong, even played for the top divisional championship, in a very strong conference, a couple of years ago. The kids liked him, for the most part. The top players tended to go to tryouts and play summer ball in order to be seen. It seems to have worked out for them, at least that's what they tell me.
He coached for the right reasons.
He coached for the right reasons.
quote:I was pretty content with my son's HS coach. He did not promote. His teams were pretty strong, even played for the top divisional championship, in a very strong conference, a couple of years ago. The kids liked him, for the most part. The top players tended to go to tryouts and play summer ball in order to be seen. It seems to have worked out for them, at least that's what they tell me.
He coached for the right reasons.
Glider,
Have you ever written a letter of recomendation for a student in your class? Would you consider that out of bounds because it isn't included in your course outline?
If you don't want to help kids get to college, then just don't do it. To suggest that people who do are only doing it for self fulfillment is sheer lunacy. The argument you are making is laughable. I find it very hard to understand a coach who seemingly cares about his players not being willing to do everything he can to help them acheive their goals. No one is expecting you to get your back up 2nd baseman a scholarship. It should be expected, though, that you make some sort of effort to promote the kids who CAN play in college.
In the time it took you to type up this drivvel, you could've made two phone calls for kids.
Like Coach May, this is my last post on this subject. Coach May has made it clear, part of the job is to promote those student athletes that can play at the next level. Best point made is credibility! I dont know of any HS coaches that would promote players that could not play at the next level. Maybe they are out there, personally, I don't know of any coach that would do that. There are college coaches I deal with that know I will provide them an honest evaluation of a prospect, they keep calling because they know they will get an honest evaluation and not a sugar coated propaganda session. Again, CREDIBILITY!
Final thought, if a parent is OK with a HS coach that does not promote, that is a decision and opinion for that respective parent and player to live with. It's all about choices...
Player promotion is absolutely part of the job!
Final thought, if a parent is OK with a HS coach that does not promote, that is a decision and opinion for that respective parent and player to live with. It's all about choices...
Player promotion is absolutely part of the job!
This thread has pretty much played out. I haven't convinced any of you, and none of you have convinced me.
However, I would hope that we could praise ALL HS coaches who put so much effort on the field, whether they promote or not. IMO, they deserve it.
However, I would hope that we could praise ALL HS coaches who put so much effort on the field, whether they promote or not. IMO, they deserve it.
Glider
Didnt know we were trying to convince anyone here--just discussing and debating
By the way what travel program are you a GM for?
Didnt know we were trying to convince anyone here--just discussing and debating
By the way what travel program are you a GM for?
It was a local team that did pretty well at the national level. Many of the players are now playing college ball, several of them at D1/D2 schools. However, that has little to do with me - it was their abilities that got them there.
Glider,
Did it ever occur to you that a coach may want to help a young man/woman with talent get into a college sports program simply because the coach was a good human being.
You know - the type of person who doesnt care what others say - or do - as long as they know they are doing the best for a kid.
I know many coaches like that - that want to do what they feel is right.
Put in other words - I have no idea what the heck you are talking about.
Did it ever occur to you that a coach may want to help a young man/woman with talent get into a college sports program simply because the coach was a good human being.
You know - the type of person who doesnt care what others say - or do - as long as they know they are doing the best for a kid.
I know many coaches like that - that want to do what they feel is right.
Put in other words - I have no idea what the heck you are talking about.
It's all an issue of what makes up going above and beyond. For instance, my football coach told the whole team that anyone who WANTS to play in college will, period. I know it's different in baseball with fewer roster slots, but honestly, there's plenty of ways to help kids make it in college athletics.