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10 replies

positioning

trojan-skippertrojan-skipper1,000+ posts
Okay my umpiring gurus, I have 2 beefs with positioning I see.
#1: At home plate the last few years most of the guys in MLB are getting off to the 1st base side to make a call at home plate. Imagine a compass with home plate being the center, they are on the SE... to me they should be SW of the plate.

#2: Why doesn't the guy working 2nd base get to the shortstop side of the bag; thereby making the stolen base call much easier. The ump is always behind the play... making it difficult.
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Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
1. The position for where the PU goes on a play at home depends on where the throw is coming from and type of throw it is. They start at the point of the plate and either go first base extended, which is where you like, or third base extended as you are seeing. The deciding factors are is it a straight slide, a sweep tag or a ball thrown off line.
2. The BU is on the first base side most often to avoid being hit. He gets a decent look from that side. The other side may be better but it isn't that bad a trade-off.
trojan-skippertrojan-skipper1,000+ posts
1: The only throw I can imagine where 1st baseline extended isnt' superior to 3rd extended is if the ball is coming out of the 3rd base dugout right over your head... I mean really, you wouldn't judge the winner of a race from such a poor angle...
I just don't get it.
2. Avoid getting hit? If he sets up 6 or 8 feet to the shortstop side he's way less in jeopardy than setting up on 1st base side then, trying to scoot in right behind the ball.

IN MY OPINION
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
1: The only throw I can imagine where 1st baseline extended isnt' superior to 3rd extended is if the ball is coming out of the 3rd base dugout right over your head... I mean really, you wouldn't judge the winner of a race from such a poor angle...
I just don't get it.
If it is a slide play right at the catvher or a swipe tag, you want to be first base extended. If it's a play that is off line and the catcher is going to make a diving attempt, then most times you are going to be third base extended. A prime example was in the tag play of Manny at the plate tonight in game three. The throw went to the first base side, manny went to the foul side and tried to extend his arm. The catcher came over and blocked off the plate, tagged Manny then Mnanny reached and touched the plate. If the PU had been on the first base extended then he would have been behind the slide and never had a look at the tag. Unless you have been out there it may be hard to understand but I assure it the right thing to do.



2. Avoid getting hit? If he sets up 6 or 8 feet to the shortstop side he's way less in jeopardy than setting up on 1st base side then, trying to scoot in right behind the ball.

IN MY OPINION
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
MST has presented the correct mechanics.....

as to the play at the plate, the mechanic has to be flexible just like MST states...we have to be able to read the play as it develops and then choose which angle to take......based on the play we will start from the point of the plate and choose 1st base extended or 3rd base extended.....

in the play at 2nd, I rarely ever get to do 4 man umpire mechanics which leaves you covered at all bases.....I do the VAST majority of my games in 2 man and a handful in 3 man.....and in those mechanic systems we have multiple responsibilities so sometimes positioning for one play may not be optimum......

We need to get to the best position to make the call yet be set (not moving) to get the right focus on the call.....at the levels MST and I call we can not "scoot in behind the ball"....once the ball passes us, we need to be stopped and focused on the tag.......the speed at which the ball travels in higher baseball does not allow us that luxury.
Last edited by piaa_ump
GG Gold Glove100+ posts
Please don't trash me but I don't know of a fastpitch website that can answer this positioning question.
In Georgia HS fastpitch with 2 man crews, the field ump will go behind the shortstop halfway between 2B and 3B when 2B is occupied. This seems absurd to have an umpire so far away from the base (1B) that 90% of the calls will be made at. Any ideas on the reasoning behind this positioning?
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
If you really think about it the field ump in softball is about the same distance away from 1B as a baseball field ump would be.

Think about it like this you have 60' bases in softball so the field ump will be about another 10 - 15' behind 2B.

On a baseball field the field ump is on shortstop side of the pitcher mound with 90' bases.

That is going to mean that both will be about 70' or so away from 1B. I would still say that baseball field ump would be closer but the softball ump wouldn't be too much farther away.

I would think the biggest problem in softball would be a player crossing in front of the ump at the time the ball got to the base.
LonBlue67LonBlue67100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Gold Glove:
I guess I mean why don't they stay on the 1B side of 2B and let the HU cover 3B. It just seemed to be a very hard call to make on close plays at 1B vs. the very few calls they make at #B.


I dont do softball but if you think angle>distance then think about the angle on a infield putout to 1B from behind F6 as opposed to the same from behind F4. even though the distance is less, the BU may have a poorer angle from behind F4 (ie, greater chance of being straightlined or blocked out).

Additionally, theres little chance the PU can get to the vicinity of 3B in time for a call, given R1-R2 and say a groundball to F6. Any play that forces R2 at 3B will happen so fast, only the BU will be able to call it well (esp on 60' field). The groundball putout to F3 will develop more slowly.

just something to consider. I dont call 60' games so I dont know from personal experience. But no matter the field size, angle >distance. Dont get hung up on how close the ump gets to the play - its the ability to reach the correct angle and STOP/SET before his call that makes the difference.
Last edited by LonBlue67
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
I don't do softball but I do do 60ft baseball. I use the B position with just a runner at first but as soon as I get a runner to second or third I move to C. It's not a bad place to call bases from but I also move with the play. If I start behind the SS and he is fielding and throwing to first, I can slide in and get a little closer look at first. If the play doesn't allow it then where I start is fine.

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