Anybody ever had one? What were your symptoms?
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I googled torn labrum baseball and got a ton of hits.
Here is a small note on it:
The labrum is a thin matrix of collagen seated between the head of the humerus (bone of the upper arm) and the glenoid fossa (the shallow depression where the humerus fits). It functions both as a shock absorber, cushioning the blow when the bones in the shoulder collide, and as part of the joint's connective structure. The kinetic forces required to throw a baseball—a major-league pitcher's arm moves at 23 rotations per second—routinely rip apart the structures designed to keep the shoulder together. The most common variety of labrum tear is a SLAP—superior lesion, anterior to posterior. The SLAP tear feels like a "catch", a slight click or pop in the normal overhand motion.
Here is a small note on it:
The labrum is a thin matrix of collagen seated between the head of the humerus (bone of the upper arm) and the glenoid fossa (the shallow depression where the humerus fits). It functions both as a shock absorber, cushioning the blow when the bones in the shoulder collide, and as part of the joint's connective structure. The kinetic forces required to throw a baseball—a major-league pitcher's arm moves at 23 rotations per second—routinely rip apart the structures designed to keep the shoulder together. The most common variety of labrum tear is a SLAP—superior lesion, anterior to posterior. The SLAP tear feels like a "catch", a slight click or pop in the normal overhand motion.
Do NOT rush to surgery. My oldest (a catcher) had what appeared to be a torn labrum and the Doc, one of the pre-emininent sports docs in the Boston area, wanted to do surgery the next day. Son decided to work hard in the gym to build up supporting muscles and now, four years later, his arm is stronger than it has ever been. I recall reading that Pedro Martinez may have pitched for quite some time with a similar injury before finally going under the knife this past year.
obrady,
I sent you a lengthy PM. I will hope for positive news.
Bill
I sent you a lengthy PM. I will hope for positive news.
Bill
Two sons, two torn labrums, two (hopefully) different outcomes. #1 injured his shoulder in high school - only hurt during the season (of course) but he never wanted to see the doctor because obviously they wouldn't let him play. By junior year of college he was living on ibuprofen and ice and could barely brush his teeth between games. He had surgery summer after junior year, planning to get back in time for spring... never happened. His 4-6 month rehab turned into 18 months - he had so much damage from the chronic dislocations that sometimes happen with a torn labrum. He had a tear and lots and lots of fraying. He's fine now, but we wish we had insisted that it get taken care of in high school. Live and learn.
#2 son injured his (non-throwing) shoulder during freshman year of college. Finished the season - trainer thinks it's "just a bicep strain" but our previous experience leads us to make an appt with the ortho. Dr sends him for PT, therapist says "nope, something's wrong. Your shoulder is not supposed to move that way." MRI shows a SLAP tear - surgery 10 days later. That was 6 weeks ago - he already has full range of motion back and is now ready to start getting his arm strong again. He should be 100% by December or January.
Holden - I hear you saying "be cautious about jumping into surgery", but I have to ask, when you say son had "what appeared to be a torn labrum", do you mean the clinical exam pointed to a possible labrum tear, or do you mean an MRI with contrast dye showed a tear?
#2 son injured his (non-throwing) shoulder during freshman year of college. Finished the season - trainer thinks it's "just a bicep strain" but our previous experience leads us to make an appt with the ortho. Dr sends him for PT, therapist says "nope, something's wrong. Your shoulder is not supposed to move that way." MRI shows a SLAP tear - surgery 10 days later. That was 6 weeks ago - he already has full range of motion back and is now ready to start getting his arm strong again. He should be 100% by December or January.
Holden - I hear you saying "be cautious about jumping into surgery", but I have to ask, when you say son had "what appeared to be a torn labrum", do you mean the clinical exam pointed to a possible labrum tear, or do you mean an MRI with contrast dye showed a tear?
In this case it was an x-ray that showed a cyst on the labrum which, apparently, is indictive of a tear. Never did have an MRI done because not playing at that time was not an option in his mind. Recovery was not a fast process--he gutted out the remainder of the HS season, played sparingly that summer (didn't showcase very well, as you can imagine), and then started working hard in the gym late that summer and ever since. I would say that it has been back to regular strength and better now for about a year and half (original injury was in Spring 2003).
Unfortunately, I don't know enough about his training program to be able to tell you what he does. His upper body is twice as big as it was in HS now.
Unfortunately, I don't know enough about his training program to be able to tell you what he does. His upper body is twice as big as it was in HS now.
Our Doc said you never really know till you get in there and take a look. After months of rehabbing, with no results, we are scheduled to be scoped the 11th. Doc says that once he gets in he will see if it's one of three possibilities: bursitis / arthritis – live with it, minor fraying – clean it up be back in a month or so, full labrum tear – 4 to 6 months.
Sorry to hear that the rehab didn't do the trick. Good luck with the procedure. Hope the results are the best they can be.
o'brady, Same thing happened to my son--months of physical therapy and then had the labrum surgery. Good luck to him------we hope for the best.
Dr. Andrews could make a better recommendation and he is always available for a consultation. I would make the drive to Birmingham in a heart beat if I had a kid with a shoulder problem. His availability is uncanny for someone of his stature.
My son was just diagnosed(MRI no contrast) a couple of weeks ago with a peelback SLAP tear. Doc 1 scheduled him for surgery on 5/1 but has not actually examined my son. He saw a colleague originally who referred him to the surgeon. He is scheduled to be examined by the surgeon on March 17. He cannot throw at all due to the pain and is helping with practices just to stay around the team.
We took him to a different doctor that his pitching coach recommended mostly because he did not want to wait until May for surgery. The second doc is not sure that he will need surgery, at least right away. He said that our son has a great degree of external rotation on the shoulder but his internal rotation is tight. He feels that the internal rotation issue is what has caused the peelback of the labrum and the first thing we need to do is have son do PT to correct that issue. He feels that the pain he is feeling right now is not related to the labrum, but is in his rotator cuff which is inflammed again due to the internal rotation problem. He said something about friction or rubbing when he throws irritating the rotator cuff. I think he said his pain location is classic for the supraspinatus(?). Kind of the top front of his shoulder.
At any rate, we will see how the therapy goes and then make a decision about surgery. It is very tough because of course we would like to avoid surgery if it is not needed, but by the same token he doesn't want to sit out this season and then miss next or part of next because they delayed surgery.
We took him to a different doctor that his pitching coach recommended mostly because he did not want to wait until May for surgery. The second doc is not sure that he will need surgery, at least right away. He said that our son has a great degree of external rotation on the shoulder but his internal rotation is tight. He feels that the internal rotation issue is what has caused the peelback of the labrum and the first thing we need to do is have son do PT to correct that issue. He feels that the pain he is feeling right now is not related to the labrum, but is in his rotator cuff which is inflammed again due to the internal rotation problem. He said something about friction or rubbing when he throws irritating the rotator cuff. I think he said his pain location is classic for the supraspinatus(?). Kind of the top front of his shoulder.
At any rate, we will see how the therapy goes and then make a decision about surgery. It is very tough because of course we would like to avoid surgery if it is not needed, but by the same token he doesn't want to sit out this season and then miss next or part of next because they delayed surgery.
quote:He said something about friction or rubbing when he throws irritating the rotator cuff. I think he said his pain location is classic for the supraspinatus(?). Kind of the top front of his shoulder.
mom, for whatever it is worth, all the discussions I had with many involved in the treatment of labral and rotator cuff injuries makes me view the above comments with raised eyebrows.
What I learned is that the classic symptoms of injury/fraying of the rotator cuff include pain on the back of the shoulder on deceleration of the arm in the throwing motion.
Pain toward the front, isn't classic for the cuff and is much more common and consistent with labral involvement.
infielddad,
As I'm sure you can understand, we would really like for him to not have to go through the surgery. Obviously if that is what it needed, we will do it. I just wish we didn't have to.
We do have him set up for the PT and also a visit with another doctor on the 17th. He is so frustrated with not being able to throw and watching his teammates getting ready for the season without him.
After the visit with the doctor on the 17th we will be making a decision on how to move forward. I tried talking my husband into taking him to Alabama but he really doesn't want to do that.
In researching the doctor we just saw, he did a sub-specialty fellowship in sports medicine at the American Sports Medicine Institute in Birmingham, AL. It looks like this is affiliated with Dr Andrews so we felt that this should be a good doctor for our son. Now I am worried again. This is so hard.
As I'm sure you can understand, we would really like for him to not have to go through the surgery. Obviously if that is what it needed, we will do it. I just wish we didn't have to.
We do have him set up for the PT and also a visit with another doctor on the 17th. He is so frustrated with not being able to throw and watching his teammates getting ready for the season without him.
After the visit with the doctor on the 17th we will be making a decision on how to move forward. I tried talking my husband into taking him to Alabama but he really doesn't want to do that.
In researching the doctor we just saw, he did a sub-specialty fellowship in sports medicine at the American Sports Medicine Institute in Birmingham, AL. It looks like this is affiliated with Dr Andrews so we felt that this should be a good doctor for our son. Now I am worried again. This is so hard.
mom,
In 2005, our son was playing in a Milb All Star game.
Today, he is sitting next to me. That interval has been spent first relying on trainers and and a team doctor(who did a fellowship in Birmingham).
The odyssey included many diagnoses and more dedication by a player/patient to recovery than you can imagine.
At some point, after one surgery, and more issues, he/we became patient advocates.
Only then did Dr Andrews become involved.
Best decision ever, but he won't be playing again.
All I can tell you is to ask your husband to reconsider and get your son to Dr Andrews for a second opinion. This is the time!
In 2005, our son was playing in a Milb All Star game.
Today, he is sitting next to me. That interval has been spent first relying on trainers and and a team doctor(who did a fellowship in Birmingham).
The odyssey included many diagnoses and more dedication by a player/patient to recovery than you can imagine.
At some point, after one surgery, and more issues, he/we became patient advocates.
Only then did Dr Andrews become involved.
Best decision ever, but he won't be playing again.
All I can tell you is to ask your husband to reconsider and get your son to Dr Andrews for a second opinion. This is the time!
My son hurt his shoulder two years ago, and at first they thought it was shoulder tendonitis. The MRI showed that it may have actually been a labrum tear. The doctors were never sure because he simply completed weeks of physical therapy and stopped throwing which solved the problem. It likely was not torn, but he had numbness down to his fingers after throwing. It was scary to watch him try to play through it, and I would not recommend letting your son try to play through because it may be more serious.
I had a SLAP myself and one of the classic symptoms was rotating the arm in a backwards circle and popping everytime. It was surgically repaired and back at full strength in about 5 months.
I posted on here recently about my 15 year old son who sustained a shoulder injury 3+ months ago diving for a ball. The doctor's preliminary diagnosis was a detached labrum, but he viewed surger as a last resort. After 5 weeks of PT he had my son try a lite throwing regimen for 3 weeks. But my son didn't improve so on March 5 he had surgery which confirmed the original diagonsis. Sling comes off next week and PT begins. A lot of good information on this site has helped to set our expectations.
torn labrums are almost a done deal for pitchers, time to play another position
My son is hoping you are totally off base on this. It is a much more serious injury than TJ (nothing against those who fought tooth and nail to come back from TJ), but I know of a few success stories.quote:Originally posted by BigBatMatt:
torn labrums are almost a done deal for pitchers, time to play another position
there's always exceptions, get healed!
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=807
I found this on Baseball America, read the report (click on link)they did in 2004. All tears are different and recovery is different for everyone.
I found this on Baseball America, read the report (click on link)they did in 2004. All tears are different and recovery is different for everyone.