Primary Position

Welcome to HSBBWweb Thedhrkt:

Definitely don't see that 2-way player at the college level (SS/C). At some point when you go to a showcase your measurables likely will lean one way or the other. For C, how is your pop time, arm strength, blocking capability, ability to manage pitchers (intangible). As for SS, how does your 60 yard dash compare to others, arm strength across the diamond, range, glovework? Both positions call upon defense as a big part of game. Son played 3B a good part of HS and American Legion, but knew (and hoped) he would not play the position in college. Towards the end of both HS and Legion he played the combination of MI and CF. He showcased mainly MI, but added CF as secondary position late in process to give him options (both positions played into having good 60 time which he did). His college selected him as an "athletic MI who could play the outfield" When asked which he prefers he answered that he could play either, though he feels he has the instincts of a MI. He plays 2B.

Where you're at know it's good to be in the line-up. At some point, I sense you'll see more repetitions at one.  Again I think it plays into your measureables. I would find a low cost local camp/showcase where you can measure one and then the other at a second. Where you live it shouldn't be difficult. Doubt you;ll have opportunity for both in one, unless your non-primary (whichever you deem), would be a few innings in a game. Good luck!

Concerning catching and short stop, the one drill that helps both - hitting!  Keep swinging it!

What are you better at? Positional flexibility still is a good think but in college or pro it is less helpfull than in HS because they already have guys that can play at every position.

Of course the first thing the is important is how you hit. And then it helps if you are really good at one position.

At 5"8 you might be a little small to the liking of some coaches at C unless you have a huge arm. Besides hitting arm strength might be most important for a C.

How fast are you? If you are really fast SS might be the better path. If your speed is only average but the arm is really good C might be an option.

Yogi Berra was 5'7" ... yes I know these are different times, but still.... don't let anyone tell you you aren't big enough

As for position, the game will tell you, to a degree.   If your 60 time is slower than 7.4 or 7.5 or so, you are a Catcher.  As a 2020 though you have time to get that 60 time fast enough.  Alot of people will tell you that you need to have a sixty time below 7 seconds to play Middle Infield, which is true in many places, but Eric Sogard ran a 7.4 sixty in high school and made it to MLB.   There are many more examples...

TheDHRK1 posted:

I'm a 2020, 5'8" 165 lb. SS and C and haven't been too active in the recruiting process yet (haven't gone to any showcases/camps, reached out to coaches, etc.). I've gotten emails for camps, to fill out questionnaire's, basic stuff, no real interest (again, not expecting any as I have not been active in the process).  I've wanted to start going to a few showcases and camps, making a video, and start contacting coaches but I'm not sure what position to label myself as.

For context, I started catching a few years back and thought that I would end up converting from short to catcher completely but it never happened as I'd end up still getting a lot of time at short. Shortstop was definitely still primary position at the time. But once freshman year started, I basically only caught (JV backup) and played some outfield, and for summer ball basically only played short unless we had two or three games in a day, in which I'd end up catching at the least a good portion of one game.

At this point, I don't really feel any better at one position than the other. I know this is a really stupid question, but what position should I play at showcases and tell college coaches is my primary position?

Welcome to the site.  This place will be a big help to you as you navigate the challenges of HS baseball and preparing for baseball beyond if you continue on that path.  

SS and C are valuable positions to college recruiters, so those are two great spots to be playing.  They are each a unique skill set.  Both require a strong arm, athleticism, good game awareness and leadership characteristics.  But, SS must be very quick at the next level.  I may be wrong, but as a 5'8" rising sophomore at 165 lb., I'm guessing that speed/quickness isn't your strongest attribute as compared to the quickest players in your area.   That said, when you go to your first showcase, pick the position that you think your skill set is most developed at the time.  Just know that quickness is going to be one of the key attributes they look for more so in a MIF than a C. 

For your HS team, they will put you where they most need you.  If you continue to improve your skill set at both, that will make you more valuable to your team.  HS teams always need good C's.   And if you continue to develop as a SS, you can be plugged in to pretty much any other position and do well.

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with dominik85. I feel that size has nothing to do with the catchers position. There are many small catchers that are under 6'0 in the MLB. In the end, if you have the measurables and skill, that will overtake your size. Don't let your size be the deciding factor.

Welcome to the site!

My youngest is 5'8", 170 lbs. and a SS/2B in college.  He showcased solely as a MIF.  He graduated HS in 2016.  He was also asked to catch in high school and did so most of his Sophomore year...and a little bit all the other years.  As Cabbage said, your high school will put you where they need you.

And as it turns out, so will college coaches.  My oldest showcased and committed as a SS.  He's now a college pitcher and a part time DH.

In college recruiting, tools matter.  Tools are things like running speed, throwing velocity, bat speed, etc.  These will all get measured at college showcases.  College coaches also will watch players in games...do the measurable tools and the game performances project to the next level?  And if so, at what position(s)?

I always recommend part time HS pitchers to showcase, at least secondarily, as a pitcher.  Your situation is a bit more challenging, because it's extremely rare for a college catcher to also be a SS...I've not seen it anyway.

What position do you want to showcase?  What's your best position?  Are you quick?  Fast?  What's your POP time?  Throwing velocity from SS to 1B?  Are you a power hitter?  All of these things will go into what really makes sense.

Good luck!

Thank you for the replies.

 

At some point when you go to a showcase your measurables likely will lean one way or the other. For C, how is your pop time, arm strength, blocking capability, ability to manage pitchers (intangible). As for SS, how does your 60 yard dash compare to others, arm strength across the diamond, range, glovework?

As far as measurables, I haven't gotten numbers from a third party since when I went to a Team USA NTIS open tryout as a catcher over a year and a half ago - in March or April 2016. Exit velo was 70, arm velo was 62, pop time was 2.6, 60 time was 7.64.

I ran 7.2 in the 60 earlier this year, arm velo was 70, and pop was around 2.2-2.3, but these were measured by my HS coaches so could be off. Those are the only updated numbers I have. 

I don't feel like I have much of a problem with range, glovework, and throwing across diamond in game at short, especially compared to SS in tournaments in Illinois/Wisconsin/Indiana. As for catcher, only thing would be blocking with good form as I've never really gotten much instruction. Hitting isn't anything special, slightly above average at best as compared to other players in the area. 

TheDHRK1 posted:

Thank you for the replies.

 

At some point when you go to a showcase your measurables likely will lean one way or the other. For C, how is your pop time, arm strength, blocking capability, ability to manage pitchers (intangible). As for SS, how does your 60 yard dash compare to others, arm strength across the diamond, range, glovework?

As far as measurables, I haven't gotten numbers from a third party since when I went to a Team USA NTIS open tryout as a catcher over a year and a half ago - in March or April 2016. Exit velo was 70, arm velo was 62, pop time was 2.6, 60 time was 7.64.

I ran 7.2 in the 60 earlier this year, arm velo was 70, and pop was around 2.2-2.3, but these were measured by my HS coaches so could be off. Those are the only updated numbers I have. 

I don't feel like I have much of a problem with range, glovework, and throwing across diamond in game at short, especially compared to SS in tournaments in Illinois/Wisconsin/Indiana. As for catcher, only thing would be blocking with good form as I've never really gotten much instruction. Hitting isn't anything special, slightly above average at best as compared to other players in the area. 

 

 

That's good information that will help us try to guide you better.  So, what are you hoping to accomplish by attending a showcase in the near future?  

That's good information that will help us try to guide you better.  So, what are you hoping to accomplish by attending a showcase in the near future?  

At this point I want to be able to gauge my ability in comparison to other players in my class and be able to know what would be realistic schools to target.

TheDHRK1 posted:

That's good information that will help us try to guide you better.  So, what are you hoping to accomplish by attending a showcase in the near future?  

At this point I want to be able to gauge my ability in comparison to other players in my class and be able to know what would be realistic schools to target.

OK, great.  Some things to consider...

Your self-description has your arm velo. exit velo, catching technique and hitting all at sub-par levels as it relates to college baseball standards (in general) and your speed is not above average.  I'm not at all suggesting that you can't get there but you just aren't there yet.  Going to a decent caliber showcase at this point won't really tell you anything except what I just told you and you will be about $500 poorer.  At present, it's hard to say what your ceiling might be - we just know that it is too early to tell with you.

It may be a worthwhile exercise to pull up some college rosters ( any level) of schools with decent baseball programs.  Read through the bio's.  Even at D3's and NAIA's they generally have players who were above average all-league type players in HS.  Work hard on getting there first.

My suggestion would be to, instead of attending a showcase this fall, get some good instruction and specific direction on what you need to work on and how to go about reaching your goal of playing ball in college (and, first, becoming a good HS varsity player).  Then, get after it really hard for the next year.  Commit.  Work your butt off.  If you can, include playing on a decent travel team next summer.  Oh, and make sure you do your best with school and grades... that makes a big difference for most when it comes to being an attractive recruit for colleges and most scholarship money baseball players get is usually from academics, not athletics.    After you have worked hard with a solid plan and good direction and you have developed physically over the course of that year, I think you will know a lot more about what position to focus on, what showcases to attend, what level of schools to target, etc.

For the stud players who develop early and are already dominant HS players as sophomores, it is important to be on an early recruiting schedule.  But for most, such as yourself, you still have plenty of time before you need to figure that all out... time to work on being a player that schools will want.

Now, if you want to go to a smaller, affordable showcase just to get comfortable with the format and continue to get measurable(s) from a neutral source, that's fine.  And, it would be a great idea to attend the better showcases that are in your area - just as a spectator.  This will allow you to see what players you are up against and it won't cost you anything.  Also, go to some local college games.  Keep in mind that most schools who recruit you will want you to be pretty much ready to contribute when you hit the campus as a freshman.  So, this will tell you more about where you need to be.  No reason to contact coaches until you are closer to showing that you have a skill set that can help their program win games.

When you have developed the tools a bit more and become physically stronger, members here can offer great help with next steps, including how to target schools, make a good video, contact schools, prepare for showcases, find the right travel teams, be a good teammate and so much more.

Look up Jalen Washington, player from Ohio State. He was the starting catcher Jr year and starting SS as a Sr. played both in HS as well. It can be done. And I forgot to mention, was team captain one of the years, can't remember which

If hitting is nothing special you should change that. Hit a lot and get a good hitting instructor (or at least do online lessons, for example at baseball rebellion).

Also work on getting fitter and stronger.

Welcome. You've received excellent feedback so far...  It's the beginning of the offseason of your sophomore year.  As mentioned by Cabbage you have some indication of your measurables, skip the high price camps and showcases, commit to a baseball tailored strength and speed program along with hitting instruction and throwing instruction.  Yes, throwing....improving technique, working on strength in the right areas (all through out the back and lower half) you'll learn to throw harder.  Developing the proper arm care, pre and post game, regardless of position, will keep you strong and healthy.

Greater lower half strength and working on speed and agility will get your 60 time down a few tenths over the next 6 months.  6.9-7.0 as a future rising junior next summer is possible if at a 7.2 now. 

Search out a hitting instructor who gets your dream to play in college, and one who's had success of producing college players.  Find out where current college players worked out at in your area, and who they worked with.  Your goal with hitting right now:  to be a beast at the plate!

You mention W, IL, and Indiana tournaments...which state are you in?  I live in Northern Illinois and might be able to direct you to a few places.  PM me if you'd like.

I have a 2018 SS and have learned a lot....

Alright so what I'm getting is that I should:

1) Not really worry too much about going to any real showcases until I develop more/have some measurables comparing to at least some D3 players.

2) Work hard on improving physically and in school.

3) Try to seek out more individual instruction for hitting and defense.

4) Work on getting fit and strong.

If I may interject some of my limited knowledge. 

1) I would recommend ONE showcase now.  Make it a cheaper one (Have seen them 200-300).  The goal isnt to get seen for this one.  It's to expose you to the process.  See how it's done.  Trust me.  Your nerves will be an issue that first time around.  My 2020 came out at lunch after the positional rounds were down and before the bullpen sessions began and said "Im not ready".  It opened his eyes to what he needed to work on.  It was an attitude check and well worth the 200.

2) My son doesn't have much more of an arm velocity than you do but has touched 2.1 on his pop and consistently hits 2.2's.  I think the biggest difference is his foot work....  He is only 5'9 140 but fast footwork and clean mechanics can help you.  If you don't have a catching guru in your area, have mom or dad take a video of your mechanics on throw downs.  There are a few of us on here who could help break it down for you.

3) Work hard in school absolutely.  Keep the grades up is a must.

4) Working out is a MUST. Exit velocity is a tad low.

5) One final, large item.  How are you on RECEIVING the ball?  Trust me there is a right way to catch balls and to frame and a wrong way.  Start watching catchers on TV.  One of the few positions that you can easily learn from while watching a game.   Also....How is your blocking technique?  In front....to the sides?  Also watching how the catchers CALL their games....   Anyone can get gear on and catch...But to be a great receiver takes skill, and frankly, a slightly off human being.   To drop down and block a 85-95 mph pitches off of body parts and foul balls off of masks (and body parts) takes a slightly deranged individual.  To do it over and over you have to enjoy doing it and frankly, that makes you a little nuts! But do it right and pitchers will love you for it and the ultimate compliment a catcher can get is when pitchers tell coaches they want YOU to be their catcher... 

TheDHRK1 posted:

Thank you for the replies.

 

At some point when you go to a showcase your measurables likely will lean one way or the other. For C, how is your pop time, arm strength, blocking capability, ability to manage pitchers (intangible). As for SS, how does your 60 yard dash compare to others, arm strength across the diamond, range, glovework?

As far as measurables, I haven't gotten numbers from a third party since when I went to a Team USA NTIS open tryout as a catcher over a year and a half ago - in March or April 2016. Exit velo was 70, arm velo was 62, pop time was 2.6, 60 time was 7.64.

I ran 7.2 in the 60 earlier this year, arm velo was 70, and pop was around 2.2-2.3, but these were measured by my HS coaches so could be off. Those are the only updated numbers I have. 

I don't feel like I have much of a problem with range, glovework, and throwing across diamond in game at short, especially compared to SS in tournaments in Illinois/Wisconsin/Indiana. As for catcher, only thing would be blocking with good form as I've never really gotten much instruction. Hitting isn't anything special, slightly above average at best as compared to other players in the area. 

 

 

This right there is going to be a problem.  Not blocking the way the higher ups expect to see you blocking leads me to believe you need to focus on MIF.

Without a plus bat you will need to be a plus defensive catcher.   Get some instruction from a quality catching coach.  Continue working on the hitting, the better your hitting can be the more it can open doors for you.

Find a cheap showcase.  Enjoy the experience and learn what it is like.  I think every player should do one so they know what it is like before the first one they truly are trying to show off what they have.  I don't recommend a school where you are highly interested in.  If you have done Team USA/NTIS you already have done that.  Work to get arm strength up.  Long toss.  Just remember you have time.  Don't rush it. 

If you take Kevin A & Pitchingfan's lead, there's one for  $99 , 99 miles from Chicago (in Glendale, Wisconsin) this  Sunday.  Return to area December 3 at McCook, IL. Place to get up to date measureables at a lower cost.  Son used this early in process as to see what the showcase format/drills are all about and learn how he stood in each of the tools.

https://www.baseballfactory.com/events/

Given the OP's original #s he may want to work to improve his measureables( with(training/Coaching) as others have said.

KevinA,  to pitchers & catchers =