Proceed with caution

TPM:
Thanks for sharing very insoghtful, would not have even ponder that.

I've often wondered if you can lose some leverage if you let it be known how much you want to attend your instate school. My son has a friend that is a sophomore. He is probably one of the top 5 players in the northwest for his class its no secret where he wants to go to school. He's been coming to the schools camps since he was 10 or 11. If a school knows how bad you want to go their school are'nt you setting yourself up for a smaller scholarship offer?

Yikes!

quote:

If a school knows how bad you want to go their school are'nt you setting yourself up for a smaller scholarship offer?

Sure, it's possible. Look, what is most important. Is it the money? Is it being able to tell the neighbors how much you got? If that is where the boy wants to go, what difference does it make how much he got?

IMHO, if the boy wants to go to this school, and he has the ability, then he should do everything in his power within reason to go there.

quote:

Sure, it's possible. Look, what is most important. Is it the money? Is it being able to tell the neighbors how much you got? If that is where the boy wants to go, what difference does it make how much he got?

IMHO, if the boy wants to go to this school, and he has the ability, then he should do everything in his power within reason to go there.

I don't think letting a coach know how much you want to come will set yourself up for a smaller scholarship if you are a top player. If you are not, it might just get you books. Some players will actually play for just that, just to be part of the team.
The above scenerio might sound far fetched, but do know that I KNOW it happens. It ususally happens to the position player that is average and lives in state.

Prepaid tuition plans, that might cut a scholarship down. The coach knows you that you have already put money aside for his education. Sometimes your son's financial package will be based on your financial situation.

This is not a coach bashing thread, nor written as sour grapes because mine had great recruiting opportunities, just some heads up info to pass along.

CD,
I agree with you, but that's how it SHOULD be. A recruit should do everything in his power to go where he wants to play, and the coach should do everything in his power to be honest.

TPM,
well said. It has to happen if you pay attention to the recruiting class sizes. It's a reality with some programs on a yearly basis. It's right around these 2 weeks that this freshman class will find out their fate after the fall workouts and usually right before the signing period.
Coaches have now seen upclose what they have brought in and who they have gotten committments from for next fall. Remeber they don't have to be at 11.7 until game 3 of the spring season...

And how many have the full 11.7?

It is all a numbers game

I heard that one of the prime culprits of this tactic is located in sunny south FL who does this every year.

Coach Merc,
Upon further investigation I have learned (stated in the NCAA rules) that 11.7 is the max a sememster, or yearly calendar. Most schools go by sememster. What I have posted is done to avoid that in the fall.
Canesfan,
Culprits are those that carry higher numbers in the fall and less in the spring. It's easier for state schools to do it, because their recruits get state money.

.
So TPM...educate me on this...So...let me see if I get this right...(I'm probably confused)...

A recruited NLI'd player comes in in the fall expecting scholarship $, but is told by the program that by NCAA rules it is our choice...and we choose to double up in the spring rather than split the $ between fall and spring. "No problem kid you just get your $ in the spring"

At some point after fall practice a player is told, "Geeze, sorry kid, you know you didn't make the squad this fall so you have three choices, to redshirt on YOUR dime, to transfer to a local JC, or go to another school."

Is this it?

44

quote:

A recruited NLI'd player comes in in the fall expecting scholarship $, but is told by the program that by NCAA rules it is our choice

NLI rules state - "Answer: Under the terms of the National Letter of Intent Program a written (binding) award of athletics aid for the entire academic year must accompany a National Letter of Intent" (my bold)

I've never ever heard of the situation as described,
ie: arriving on campus with the "athetics aid form in hand" & being told we're gonna interpret it "our way" & pay you later - compliance would have that coach's head in a heartbeat



actually it CAN happen the other way, easy $$ in the fall at pgms running the "tryout & cut" system of recruiting
as $$ is "free" til Feb when the season begins and they must be in compliance with 11.7 -



.

quote:

NLI rules state - "Answer: Under the terms of the National Letter of Intent Program a written award of athletics aid for the entire academic year must accompany a National Letter of Intent" (my bold)

I've never ever heard of the situation as described, ie: arriving on campus with the "athetics aid form in hand" & being told we're gonna interpret it "our way" & pay yopu later - compliance would have that coach's head in a heartbeat

I'm so glad to see this post, as I had been thinking the exact same thing. My son's NLI had the Financial Package spelled out on it completely and fully. So we knew in November of his senior year what to expect financially. And, it was always spelled out for the full academic year. I really do not understand how a situation like we'll pay 50% in the spring ONLY can be sprung on a kid and his family. Plus, every year when the renewed financial package papers arrive...it is again spelled out completely.

Not saying this doesn't happen, of course ANYTHING can happen I guess. But I do not understand HOW it can happen unless someone just doesn't read the agreement properly. And I'm not talking "fine print"....I'm talking "right where it says the financial arrangement on the NLI".

If a coach TELLS a family BEFOREHAND that the scholly is only for the spring semester and you agree to it...then, buyer beware. But, if it is the school you've dreamed of going to...go for it, just go into it with your eyes open and know what you are walking in to. Only the player and his family can decide what they are willing to do to attend their dream school.

quote:

Under the terms of the National Letter of Intent Program a written award of athletics aid for the entire academic year must accompany a National Letter of Intent.

I suppose this can be interpreted in a number of ways. For example...from memory...our son's NLI simply stated "xx% of a full ride." Didn't say anything about how it would be split up and in his case it has been the same, term-by-term. I suppose they would have had the leeway to distribute it however they wanted.

I don't know of any cases like TPM's example...but it sure wouldn't surprise me either.

quote:

If a school knows how bad you want to go their school aren't you setting yourself up for a smaller scholarship offer?

I completely agree with ClevelandDad's comments above.

But lets also look at this question from another angle. Would you want your son to NOT get a chance at his dream school over an extra 10/20% because another kid DID dare to tell the coach how bad he wanted to go there?

I say if its a place you always dreamed about, let them know. Shower them with all the love you can!

I did not understand TPM's original post either.

I have heard families not understanding what the numbers included, I hear they got a full ride but only had to pay for housing and and, etc. I guess they wanted to sound impressed.

Others families I talk to say that they are getting a certain % scholarship to find out that there are a lot of things it did not cover such as out of state fees and the amount they have to pony up is much more than they expect.

I heard from one family that they had to pony up the full annual of the semester fees and they would be reimbursed monthly, that school also had a reputation of over recruiting and shuffling players off to a JC if they don't make the cuts....

Bottom line, understand the numbers and get it in writing before the NLI comes and you are already verbally committed and you are under pressure to sign.

OB,
Thanks for asking. NLI player will get a redshirt most likely, transfers and recruited walk ons easier to tell them good bye. The redshirt is spring is NOT on the players dime, but doesn't count in the 11.7, but is in the coaches budget.
Now can you see this scenerio. Son, you are going to have to redshirt, BUT if you would rather play, I can hook you up with local JUCO and have all expenses paid. We'll transfer all of your credits back here next fall. What would your son do?


I am not sure of your question. The player has been offered (in example) 50% and asked you to pay in fall and they pay spring. So let's assume they were told this at signing time, no secret. There is nothing in the NLI that states payment arrangements, is there? Just either percentage or $$. As long as the 50% is paid in a calendar year, makes no difference how. I know people who have this arrangement.

quote:

Seems to me they would have had the leeway to distribute it however they wanted.

like - you pay the first 2 yrs & we'll pay yrs 3 & 4 ?? (if we havn't run you out)

that's exactly why the award letter put's it in writing - -
the invoice MUST reflect the agreement when you arrive on campus



.

Bee> - How is it NOT reflecting the agreement if it says "xx% of full ride" and they distribute it as 0%-1st term and 100%-2nd term? Thats still 50% of a full ride...isn't it?

quote:

like - you pay the first 2 yrs & we'll pay yrs 3 & 4 ??

BTW, I've heard of players accepting that deal. I wouldn't...but some will.

If there's a buyer, then there's a way for it to happen.

jbb, if a frosh arrives on campus with NO aid - he's a walk-on with a chance to earn some $$ later - no NLI was necessary since he is NOT a scholarship player


.

quote:

if a frosh arrives on campus with NO aid - he's a walk-on with a chance to earn some $$ later - no NLI was necessary since he is NOT a scholarship player

Bee> - Of course! Perhaps this is just a case of me/you misunderstanding each other over a computer screen.

Maybe I should have been more precise. I know of players (at least according to their parents) who took a deal that paid them 50% first year with a promise to make it 100% second year...thus averaging 75%...or 100% first year followed by 50% second year. I've heard of examples of both...so that the coaches could balance their available $$ each year.

In fact, without specifying numbers...our son was offered a "4-year-deal" that rose after the first year by another school. He didn't take it...wasn't the right school.

The point is (and I think this is part of TPM's point) that the schools can vary this stuff around to their advantage or their necessity. Previously, I'd only heard of year-by-year manuevering...but I'm not in shock that it could happen within a given year too.

I guess the one thing you can count on is that in every walk of life, you are probably at some point going to meet up with someone who is unethical and not interested in your best interests. Luckily, those kinds of people seem to be in the minority. Yes, you can overanalyze and worry about every little aspect of every decision you make in life. You'll also probably wind up giving yourself an ulcer doing so.

I honestly have never heard of this type of situation happening. Does this type of financial aid manipulation happen in college athletics? Altho I have NEVER witnessed it, I also will not say it doesn't happen...because I readily admit I do not know everything and at this point in life, there is little that surprises me.

What can you do? We always asked the coach "Under what circumstances will you not renew a scholarship?" Whatever answer the coach gave us, we chose to believe him. Therfore, we didn't worry about being shipped off to a JUCO, or other ways to get rid of a player and their financial impact on the team. Just as we chose to believe him when we were given the scholarship amount and when our son signed his NLI. And, we chose to believe him that grant-in-aid for a full academic year meant exactly the way the NLI intended it to mean. Was that naive? Perhaps...but we slept well at night knowing our son was happy. Yes, we also looked at the rosters to see if there were trends. We also knew where our son wanted to spend the next four years of his life, and knowing that there are no guarantees in life....chose to go that particular route.

There comes a point where you have to weigh what your son wants, with what is offered, with your "gut feelings" about the coach and the program. And you go from there. If it happens that paying only spring was what the coach meant, and that is okay with you? Fine...go for it. That is NOT something that can be sprung on you once you arrive on campus in the fall...because tuition bills are due BEFORE school starts. It is only something that can be sprung on you BEFORE you turn up on campus. And if you agree to it...then you agree to it. Not everyone is going to be a top draft pick, or even a draft pick at all. There is no one secret formula to predict success for every player. Certain things are put into place to protect both the program and the player...the NLI being one of them. As in every avenue of life, some may try to circumvent these safeguards to their advantage. And, as in every avenue of life, I guess you should be aware that shady characters do exist...but IMO,don't waste your time peeking around every corner to see if there is one there ready to jump out at you.
But, as I choose to go thru life not dwelling on what might pop out at me around the next corner....I choose to believe in those that we have put our choices with and placed our confidence in.

You know, "Sh*t happens" sometimes....luckily, it is just "sometimes".

Bee,
Understand your point, it is a valid one, but it IS done. I think one of our HSBBW son's did this, can't remember.
I also know reverse, school pays in fall, then the player plays in spring. The NLI states ACADEMIC year, makes no diference WHEN in the academic year. There are schools that have more than two semesters in an academic year?

quote:

Does this type of financial aid manipulation happen in college athletics?

just so's I'm not steering a prospective player/parent down the wrong path, I just spoke with compliance person at a local DI -

"if it happens it's a "mistake period" all athletic aid is pay as you go by rule"
(her emphasis, my bold) -

"it should be brought to the attention of the compliance office where it will be promptly corrected and the person responsible will likely need to (re)take compliance training classes & could qualify as a violation requiring self-reporting to NCAA."

*just to clarify - this is referring to a frosh's "athletic aid award letter" not being credited to his account for fall -

luvvb,
I agree with everything you posted, and S*it happens, you may not realize but at some schools it happens a lot.

Maybe you were lucky to come across a coach that was honest and had integrity.

The purpose of my post was to put anyone in particular at fault. These things DO happen. They don't happen to the top recruits, they happen to the average recruit. If you read above in my post, it happens to the recruit who may not be offered an opportunity otherwise, who has wanted to go to a particular school all of his life, maybe his family wnembers went there, his home state school, etc. It happens to the recruited walk on as well.

Most of us have been very lucky, what was promised to our sons was delivered in the form of grant in aid. They had to prove they earned it. Others, from the beginning, don't get that chance, it's already been decided he most likely not make it. Just one thing, coach forgot to tell him that part.
Luckily, most are very honest. I imagine it must be quite frustrating for those that are, might lose a recruit to someone they know who does that. It hurts everyone.

The situation that is being described is one that would occurr at many schools around the country. Actually, in some instances, financially it may be in the family's best interest to "backload" the money into the spring semster.
However, the original point made by TPM is now moot.
The NCAA changed the rules effective this year so that if a student athlete is awarded any athletic money, it must now be split evenly between the fall and spring semester.
If you take as look at some fall rosters, you may notice a drop in numbers this year. This rule change is no doubt one of the reasons.

quote:

you may not realize but at some schools it happens a lot.

Thanks for pointing out that "I may not realize", but I think I already was upfront in my post that I readily admit I do not know EVERYTHING.

But I still believe that if you are at the school you want to be at...you don't need to LOOK for problems as to how you got there (invited walk on, non-invited walk on, academic money) vs. athletic grant in aid.

Everyone is not lucky enough to be a top recruit, recruited as an impact player, or received top dollar to attend a school. Yes, some play "just" to play at a particular school...no scholly, not even books. The dream of playing for a certain school and "bleeding" their colors...is enough. I think this topic puts an unnecessary fear or doubt into the minds of those who didn't sign an NLI and thereby have no "protection". I still firmly believe that the vast majority of programs are not out to screw you over. Especially by the method described here which appears to be against compliance standards.

But, I'll just continue to understand that "I may not realize" the true nature of collegiate athletics....and trust that either things will work out, or deal with any problems IF they occur. The recruiting process is stressful enough on its own, without having to worry about elements that are not the norm.

rbiniaz,

Thanks for the update, and I can just imagine why the NCAA changed the rules. It has been a common practice for a lot of coaches. Even though hard to believe, now a moot point, it did exist.

I did know that there had been complaints put into the NCAA, and looks like they are dealing with it.

Thanks.

.

Thanks, TPM and all...

I'm feeling more educated as this calendar manipulation of money was something I was not aware of...have I got it right now?...

...apparently a practice has been happening where schools manipulate the timing of the NLI aid, pushing it back into the spring...in order to get more unsuspecting recruits into fall camp by knowingly promising more than the scholarships that they have available this year...

...Then finding creative ways to keep players off the spring roster so to be in compliance by spring...

..And the NCAA is aware and is trying to crack down some....

quote:

The NCAA changed the rules effective this year so that if a student athlete is awarded any athletic money, it must now be split evenly between the fall and spring semester.

..but the reality is that some schools will likely still work this practice.

After reading all the posts, I think that is right?

And here is another thing I apparently have not been up to speed on...

quote:

The redshirt is spring is NOT on the players dime, but doesn't count in the 11.7, but is in the coaches budget.

Redshirt scholarships DO NOT count twards the 11.7?

44

OB44,
Correct, redshirt does not count towards his 11.7.

For some players redshirt is time to get bigger stronger, not waste eligibility.

For most coaches, it's managing the numbers.

It is always interesting to read the variety of experiences out there. Hopefully this will provide good information for our members in the heat of recruiting. In our experience, we talked with many coaches and I have to say that none of the offers were as mentioned. Maybe we just asked very detailed questions, but each head coach spelled out the offer clearly... by percent and current year dollar equivalent; how the $'s would be paid out ... either directly toward the expense and/or a deposit to son's account; and over what time period ... which in son's case was equal $'s each quarter (school on the quarter system). The important message is that you should not be guessing. Ask direct questions so that you understand exactly what the scholarship will cover and how it will be disbursed before you agree to the deal.

I am presently aware of a softball recruit out west who's offer was 65%. It was to be broken down as 100% in the fall and 15% in the spring. All money comes out of the budget however only .15 of 1 scholarship is being used against the 12 they have available...Many conferences allow this in the fall. It's not uncommon as long as the school is willing to spend the $$$.

quote:

Originally posted by RHP05Parent:
It is always interesting to read the variety of experiences out there. Hopefully this will provide good information for our members in the heat of recruiting. In our experience, we talked with many coaches and I have to say that none of the offers were as mentioned. Maybe we just asked very detailed questions, but each head coach spelled out the offer clearly... by percent and current year dollar equivalent; how the $'s would be paid out ... either directly toward the expense and/or a deposit to son's account; and over what time period ... which in son's case was equal $'s each quarter (school on the quarter system). The important message is that you should not be guessing. Ask direct questions so that you understand exactly what the scholarship will cover and how it will be disbursed before you agree to the deal.

RHP,
My point exactly, be educated and ASK questions. Coach Merc's post was interesting. I'll have to do some research on what do individual conferences allow.......

I see parents work so hard in the recruiting process. My son's coaches were up front and explained everything in detail and provided us everything in writing through email before son signed. It bothers me greatly when I hear about coaches that just have other agendas. Hopefully as we get smarter, coaches ARE BEGINNING TO REALIZE THAT WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WHEN WE SIT DOWN AT THE TABLE.

This has interested me since my son was recruited and given an offer from a particular school. You pay this in fall, we pay that in spring. I understand why now. Also, the over recruiting 45-48 players on fall rosters, this bothers me too. How can they get that into 11.7 scholarships for one semester? Especially when a coach is handing out 25,35,50%,70% in scholarships.

So I come here to try to give advice that is helpful, without mentioning one particular school or coach, which I could, but I don't. My first post was an example, just one scenerio. Coach Merc presents another, so did Justbaseball. So I have no problems with anyone taking anything seriously or not, or think it's scaring anyone. It's scary out there if you have no clue.

I will bet that many of you, if you had not done your homework, listened to others, known really what to say or ask come recruiting time you would be lost, coaches sense this too. If there has been only ONE person who has listened and it helped, that's ok with me.

If someone has read this post, I know they have learned something and going to ask this question, "how do you award your grants"? If so, it was worth the story.

I don't come here for an agenda, I have no player to promote, I learned alot along the way. My player didn't have it so easy and doesn't have it easy, he works just as hard as anyone else. In fact sometimes harder, because when you are expected to come and do your best and sometimes you don't, you have to work harder at proving them wrong. He is supposed to go out and win every game and when he doesn't he beats himself up, just like everyone else's kids do. He's having a great time, but I often think, should he have gone to a smaller school, easier conference and not struggled so much. So please, don't ever think mine has an easier road than anyone elses because he does not. The fact that he loves HIS school makes up for it, because that is what it is all about, school. If you make it all about baseball, you run up against stumbling blocks.

I let people know who I am and I don't hide behind another name when I want to be nasty or insult people. I just try to help.

I appreciate the pm's that come everyday, thanking me or the HSBBW because their player just got a great opportunity they thought he would never get. Or asking questions they were too timid to ask. That's worth all the negative comments or BS I have seen over the years.

I received a pm today, someone asking what 11.7 means. We often take it for granted, because we know, others do too. I make mistakes and when I do, I correct them. I have no reason to make anything I post up, or scare anyone, trust me on this.

Carry on.

It would seem that one thing a parent would want to do is strongely request the NLI spell out the offer in monetary terms, not percentage. This way, you should not be surprised when the bills come due in August and January.

If the coach doesn't want to make it completely clear on what he is offering, then perhaps that's not a place you want to play baseball. You wouldn't take a job on that kind of an arrangement, so why is it OK to do it with a scholarship, which some people would suggest is the same thing?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by OldVaman:
It would seem that one thing a parent would want to do is strongely request the NLI spell out the offer in monetary terms, not percentage. [QUOTE]

I am under the impression that the NLI is stated by dollar amount.

In regards to the original TPM post have others had this situation with the money backloaded??? I had not heard of this ...but I don't doubt TPM just wondering how prevelant is was in the past.

As others have said...if its a bad deal walk away

My son's NLI was stated in percentage as that was what he was awarded, percentage.

For us it worked out fine as his tuition has risen considerably since he began.

There is no official language for the NLI. It's all based on the verbal agreement. If coach says you get 3K, then it says 3K, if coach says 50% it says 50%. It doesn't even have to say 50% of WHAT. Or it could say, just tuition, room and board, books, etc. My son's friends NLI said 25% athletic, 25% academic.

We were told in advance what it would say and what it would mean, so ask if you don't understand when you see it.

quote:

I am under the impression that the NLI is stated by dollar amount.

I agree, ask questions to clarify the offer, but ...
let's not get lost in the fluff - most of these posts will serve to confuse and mislead newcomers

NLI: the Collegiate Commissioners Association (CCA) administers the National Letter of Intent program - it says simply - "I'm going to school here" & serves as certification that the student intendes to enroll at a specific institution during the coming fall academic term.

THEN: at the time of the letter's signing, the athletics director (not the coach) will indicate
(in writing) the type and extent of financial aid the institution WILL provide with a detailed "Athletics Grant In Aid Form"
(terms of your offer passed thru compliance to the AD w/no secret codes within to cheat you)

AFTER SIGNING: other cooperating conferences and institutions should then respect his/her decision to attend a specific college or university, and would cease further recruitment of the prospective student.

it's pretty simple really - IF you've done your homework you'll have a good understanding of how your particular program runs

there is no conspiracy - if you think the coaches are out to take advantage of you, pick another program or play in the band



.

.
TPM...

Your long post above...



44

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Merc:
I am presently aware of a softball recruit out west who's offer was 65%. It was to be broken down as 100% in the fall and 15% in the spring. All money comes out of the budget however only .15 of 1 scholarship is being used against the 12 they have available...Many conferences allow this in the fall. It's not uncommon as long as the school is willing to spend the $$$.

Coach Merc - I believe this is the primary reason that the NCAA has revised the rules. Your scenario seems like a clear way for colleges to violate the spirit of the rule and slip some scholarship $$ under the rug...so to speak.

Wow, great topic for TPM to bring up.

Parents, Do your HOMEWORK. Trust but Verify.

Our family had heard of over-recruiting or "Fall" team cuts/try-outs at one of the first showcases that my kid went to years ago. It scared the heck out of us. By asking around and doing proper research, we found out which programs were prone to such unethical behavior. And when certain programs came calling, these coach's were told that their reputation proceeded them and we were not willing to gamble with our son's future. Recruiters still got son's cell phone, but son handled situations diplomatically and would thank them, say he was honored to be thought of highly but that school was not a good fit for him personally.

There are plenty of coaching staffs out there that are honest and care about their boys getting a good education. I even met a coach that took over a program and kept the previous coach's scholarship players that he had not recruited, even though it meant it would take him another year to get a better team. I was impressed with the man's integrity, as he did the "right" thing. A lesser person would have cut those player's schollies and left them without funds to complete their degree. I know of coaches from other programs that have done that, changing of the guard and a player can be cut the next year with nowhere to go.

We have witnessed situations where coaches cut players in Fall and these kids had based their decision on where to attend school on erronious information and we have seen kids sent to JUCO "Farm Teams". Apparently cut Freshman year after kid signs NLI, which I don't fully understand how this can happen. It is pretty awful because in many cases the kid would have made another decision regarding school choice, if he had known the truth, especially where finances are concerned. This unethical behaviour has ended up affected young men's futures and I feel it is tragic. I know of some horror stories where good players have lost opportunities for legitimate schollies and ended up transferring and were lucky to get books covered. I have even heard where releases were not granted so kids were basically given the choice of JUCO or no play for a year at D-1 level. Then the player goes to the JUCO for two years and has to go back to the original D-1 if they have not been granted a release. I never really understood how these horror stories could happen and how schools could get away with these antics. But maybe there have been changes to NCAA rules to protect student athletes better now.

Good news is our family did our research and our son is getting an awesome education at his dream school. His coaching staff are honest and have integrity, which is refreshing and allows me to get a good night's sleep and I have one less thing to worry about. This is a good thing because my son was injured the summer prior to his Freshman year. Son was unable to play and rehabbed and now is playing this Fall. The school and coaches kept their word to our son. He was not cut and he has been a part of the team. He's worked his butt off, but all the players do that. Now he is playing this Fall and holding his own. So he's okay now, but the staff gave him the opportunity to rehab and stay at his school and continue his education.

Thank God we asked questions and researched and put a lot of hours into providing our son the information and facts to make an educated decision for his future.

There are decent coaches with integrity that do run excellent D-1 programs that win. Our son is blessed to be involved in such a program.

So if your son is being recruited, DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Do not take for granted that an injury will never happen. Ask questions, check rosters, look at the amount of JUCO transfers, and then ask more questions.

YOUR SON'S FUTURE AND EDUCATION DEPENDS ON YOUR FAMILY'S DILIGENCE AND RESEARCH.

There are good ethical programs out there, more good programs than not. It's your job the separate them.

Sorry for the book, but TPM brought up valid points that families need to be mindful of during the recruiting process. Good job, TPM, way to pass on your knowledge and experience!