Promote son to high school coach???

quote:

Originally posted by grinder:
Mike it is a big program... they will have 2 freshman teams an "A" and a "B" team, rostering about 15 each. Then a sophomore and a varsity team. Last year there were 90 players trying out for freshman baseball.

MOVE!!!


...or live up to the hype.

"She (telephoned and) told me that her son was an incoming freshman (new to the area) and wanted to know a little about the program," (the HS coach) recalled. "She asked me about our success in recent years, asked about having scouts at our games and about the guys we'd sent on to play Division I baseball. I answered her questions as politely as I could, but I remember getting off the phone and thinking to myself, 'Wow, all that and the kid's a freshman.'"


...(His) work ethic caught the attention of (the coach).

I'll be honest and say that if a parent ever sent me a videotape of their son before tryouts it would either end up in the trash or being recorded over by getting a TV show I would be missing. I will say that I would do everything in my power to try and not find out who that boy is because it's not fair to that kid I subconsciously hold against him because his parent ticked me off. It's hard to do but I try my best to make sure I don't let what parents say and do affect my judgement or feelings about a player (their son).

I think it was Husker who said to wear the shirt of your travel team to show how good you are but I would suggest to make sure that the team you were playing for was actually good. Where I was head coach at last didn't have any travel teams (a few players did make some long trips for travel team but overall the opportunity wasn't there) so all that was available was rec league all stars. When tryouts took place it was slightly humerous to watch these kids with "all star" on their shirt not be able to catch or throw. So if you are going to wear a shirt like that make it be a good team.

One year I had a parent bring his two boys (one a freshman and the other an 8th grader) to a freshman orientation night for the whole school just before school started. I was in my asst. coach's room and he came in and sounded like a old school Baptist preacher talking about his sons and how great they were. We were immediately put off by what he did and I really didn't appreciate it at all. When it was all said and done his oldest son actually ended up being a pretty good player for us but the younger son quit his junior year. But you could tell the sons were embarassed by what they dad was doing that night in front of them.

As for parents watching tryouts I don't care either way. I will be too busy watching / evaluating / teaching to notice who is there or not. Our tryouts usually ended up in a parking lot because of the weather so it was real easy for them to drive up and sit in their car and not be noticed. As long as I don't see them interfering parents don't bother me. The biggest problem I have is the parent who teaches something totally different than what I teach. Those are the ones who are a problem.

I've never had a coach in HS or select ball have a concern with having parents at practices or games. Their concern comes from how the parents handle themselves. If they are coaching their kids from the side, sure there's a problem with that. If you sit in your car, on your chair, or in the stands and watch silently and only speak when spoken to, no coach worth his salt would have a concern with that. My experience has been coaches appreciate parents that support the program, but refrain from coaching their kids.

quote:

If this is the case, Father and son should introduce themselves to the coach. An easy conversation may be....

"Hi Coach my name is Joe Blow and this is my son John. We're new to town and I wanted to make an introduction before the season started. Thank-you for your time"

If a kid is in high school he's old enough to do this himself.

In regards to the original question, do not attempt to be your son's agent. Coaches hate it. Let your son's talent do the talking.

quote:

Originally posted by grinder:
Mike it is a big program... they will have 2 freshman teams an "A" and a "B" team, rostering about 15 each. Then a sophomore and a varsity team. Last year there were 90 players trying out for freshman baseball.

If thirty freshman make it and your son has the ability you believe him to have, he will do just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by bballman:
Coaches out there, do the parents often attend tryouts? How do you feel about this. I am one of those parents who have been involved heavily in my son's baseball path and I know it is going to be a hard adjustment to begin the backing off process. Anyway, I have heard your comments on approaching the coach, but what about watching tryouts? Recommended or not from a coaches perspective?

At our high school a few kiss a$$ parents and a few freshman parents will attend tryouts the first day. Then the coaches pass on the word to the kids not to have them there anymore. When my daughter was in high school the coach banned parents from tryouts and practices after experiencing a PITA parent one season. Parents were not allowed past the parking lot to pick up kids after practice.

I do talk to the baseball coaches on occasion at our high school. They know I played ball and coach travel. But we talk baseball, not about my son unless they bring him up in conversation. I'm very cautious what I say about my son and my two other travel players in their program. In our last conversation I explained a flaw in my son's swing we were working on fixing (hardly positive).

Grinder, we had a parent "volunteer" to be the Team Manager, handling the fundraisers, the Fall team, etc. His son, a good friend and teammate of my sons made the varsity in his sophomore year. Kid is a good ballplayer, but is small and wasn't close to maturing. It paid off big time for dad, his son has been our starting shortstop since junior year. So being an invaluable "volunteer" can pay off big time.

The politics in high school, in my experience, begin in day one and do not subside until the day your son graduates. It is not a question of what to do but how to react.

On day one of freshman baseball there was one organizer buttering up to the coach--and he has been ever since--explaining how he was head of the legion program, would donate his time and money and fundraising efforts, etc.--offering his opinions about who the "real" players were for the incoming (freshman) class. I just happened to be walking by when he was talking to the coach. I'll never forget what he said: "I'm not sure how (Bum, Jr.) fits in."

Boy, was I p***** off!

In the end, I did nothing. My son eventually proved himself, overwhelmingly, on the field. And in the end, talent speaks for itself.

quote:

Originally posted by grinder:
1. ... Is it OK to promote your son to the high school coach?

2....So, is it wrong to contact the hs coach and do a little promotion?

3. I do not want to come across as an a**kisser or a PITA dad to the coach,
Thanks!

A few remarks:
1. No
2. Not wrong for son to contact the coach.
Not wrong for the son to promote himself.
There are many things for parents to do
for HS Baseball. Mow the grass, maintain
the field. Sell ads for the outfield. etc.
3. In some form or another, we all are, should
something be wanted.

My best advice for your sir, is to have
your son prepare his baseball resume.
Upon your son introducing himself to the HS Coach,
have your son hand to the HS Coach his baseball resume. Should you want or desire a template, emme me.

OBTW: After four years of being a two way starter on the HS Baseball Team, the Head Coach, at the end of season baseball banquet, spoke about my son.
The Head Coach mentioned it was the first baseball
resume from a student that he has ever received.
The Head Coach has retired, yet finds a way to keep in contact with my son (and my son's family).

Good luck. Keep us informed.

cheers
Bear

the HS Coach

Grinder,

My son moved to a new school in January of Freshman year. Knew nobody. Loved baseball.

In the 2 weeks leading up to tryouts he held his own, un-organized tryout with the coach. Every day after school was out, he would rush home change into some rec clothes, grab his glove and a bucket of baseballs and then ride his bicycle over to the ball field where the coach was making pre-season field preps.

Son would then proceed to do an (un)organized warm-up, running and then run with his bucket of balls to left field and play long-toss with himself..throwing the bucket of balls into the right field corner and sprinting to retrieve them. Then he would reverse the drill, throwing into the left field corner.

No way that the coach could not notice this new kid. He was the ONLY kid showing up at the field 2 weeks prior to try-outs. No way that coach could not help approaching kid to find out who he was and some of his baseball background.

Try outs went well.

Good luck!

99.9% of parents find a way to promote their kids. The ones that don't figure out HOW to go about it get egg on their face. You have to be innovative and subtle and appear to be a "non promoting parent".

I could share volumes of instances where parents promote their kids ---- Why even the HSBBW was built on the foundation of helping kids get to the next level because there wasn't enough information available.

Many parents pay thousands of dollars promoting their kids and are even encouraged to do so by the vast majority of members (me included) on the HSBBW. This "concept" is WIDELY accepted for players moving from high school to college. This idea of promotion is embedded in parents minds almost from the day their child is born. Trust me NO 4 year old child signs himself up or drives himself to "T" ball! Somehow this "promoting" is taboo when moving into high school is hogwash, you just have to figure out how to do it. I can tell you you DON'T approach the HS coach and tell him how good your son is or send him a video. Here's a informative article reprinted by the founder of the HSBBW.

Two fathers
I started promoting my kid when I realized he had a special baseball talent around 8-9. I felt as if was my obligation to do so. I selected the teams he was going to play for. I selected the camps he would attend. I made sure he got to bed and got up. I fixed him breakfast. I probably would have fed him anyway. There is a thin line between purchasing "skills training" and promoting. Your son has a name and the more people that know your son's name the better. Why some parents even go so far as to have their sons name on the back of a "look alike" uniform ---- like "Johnny's Dad"


Understand there is a duty and obligation to promote your child and at the same time their is much negativism in doing so. Good luck.
Fungo

OPP, Great example.

7 weeks to tryouts, I will keep reading and keep doing as much as I can to get him ready for the tryouts.

Keep you all posted on how it all turns out!

Thanks for all the great advice, and the info on this site is great. Hard to get away from reading all these great posts.

How do websters feel about a parent (or son)going to the coach and asking him to take a look at son and give him advice on what he should be working on?

The first impression most players make on coaches is with their arms during warm-ups. Coaches quickly notice arm action, pop, accuracy etc. For incoming freshmen, this is often the "eliminator", especially at C, 3B, SS, CF and RF.

To help to "promote" a 14-year-old player, Job #1 IMO is to do everything you can to help your player throw accurately, on a line, at least 130ft (across the diamond) during the first day of tryouts.

quote:

Originally posted by HaverDad:
The first impression most players make on coaches is with their arms during warm-ups. Coaches quickly notice arm action, pop, accuracy etc. For incoming freshmen, this is often the "eliminator", especially at C, 3B, SS, CF and RF.

To help to "promote" a 14-year-old player, Job #1 IMO is to do everything you can to help your player throw accurately, on a line, at least 130ft. (across the diamond) during the first day of tryouts.

Good points. Coaches also quickly notice during warm-ups if the players glove appears to be made of granite.

quote:

This "concept" is WIDELY accepted for players moving from high school to college.

That to me seems different. If college coaches are unaware of you after your senior year in high school, your career ends. Putting a kid in front of college coaches is a form or promotion indeed but that is as far as it goes with most parents. For the hs freshman team, those coaches will have ample opportunity to be "exposed" to the player during practice.

Politics is the ugly side of baseball imho. I believe it even exists at the big league level. Maybe it is just human nature. As Bum pointed out aptly, not only are some people happy to promote their own kids to the coach, they have no qualms talking down the other kids who may be competitors.

Some people argue that high school ball is not as important as summer travel ball. This thread shows that there is a vitally important aspect to it. This is where the player must learn to go out on his own merit and learn to compete. Competition means beating the other guy out - not writing a check to the booster club or pleading your case to the coach like Perry Mason. I have no doubts that some kids have made their teams and even the starting lineup because of influence by their parents. From my experience at the college level, that would be a mistake. It is cold, hard, athletic Darwinism at the next level and beyond. If parents artificially remove these pressures, they will not be equipped with the most important mental tool necessary - the ability to compete with confidence.

Rambling...

Summer teams don't always provide competitive pressure imho. I am not talking about going to a tournament and facing some nationally ranked prospect. I am referring to the fact that many of these teams are put together behind the scenes. There is no pressure on you if your Dad (or his friend) runs the team and writes your name in the lineup everyday. In a competitive high school or college situation, it is produce or sit. That is true pressure. Don't rob your kids of that experience as it is the most powerful force that causes their game to grow.

More rambling...

My son attended the largest public high school in Ohio with 1100 graduating in his class and well over 100 trying out as freshman. Like grinder, I felt the knots in my stomach wondering about the outcome. I stayed away from all tryouts.

Luck is also a factor. Apparently, before the first game was to begin, the coach had decided on a starting lineup and my son was not in it. As luck would have it, it rained heavily in the morning so the first game of the season was cancelled at noon. In the afternoon, the weather turned beautiful so they decided to have an intra-squad scrimmage. As it was told to me, my son smoked the ball in the scrimmage that day. The next day, when I got to the field to see the team for the first time, I was expecting to see my son on the bench. Lo and hehold - he was the starting centerfielder. People were coming up to me and saying "Aren't you upset, your son is a shortstop and they have him in the outfield!" I said, "Are you kidding me! I am just thrilled he is in the starting lineup!"

My son's school is a secondary school which has grades 7 - 12 all together. My son asked the coach and got to be a manager for the baseball team in 7th and 8th grades. He would carry equipment, shag balls, etc. He played travel baseball at the same time but would be at most of the high school practices during the week. He would get to throw some with the kids, maybe get a round in the batting cage every once in a while. He got to know the coach pretty well over these two years. He came home with some pretty funny stories such as the coach asking him to go ask the other coaches for the keys to the batters box or to go get a bucket of curve balls from the shed. But anyway, that's one way for the coach to get to know the kid.

In my experience….good coach’s with good programs already know who the gamers are. Your kid needs to prove himself….aka: pay his dues. Follow baseball’s golden rules and he will be fine.

Here is how "Joe", a parent at my son's former high school promoted his boy. Perhaps this can work for you:

1. Become the booster club president.

2. Cozy up to the coach and suggest that you have control over booster club slush funds.

3. Tell the coach privately that a coach's bonus is possible, but it'd sure be nice if your boy was starting catcher.

Voila! Your son, a third string talent on most squads, is proud to be the starting catcher.

Hey...it worked for "Joe"!

I cannot think that a parent would even try to promote his kid to a HS coach--like a siad previously most programs know who the kids are coming into the HS level

All the promoting is prety much done by the time they've reached H.S. And I guess by promoting I really mean preparing. The conditioning, the thousands of ground balls taken, working out with what ever coach can help you on your game.

It cracks me up top see the moms showing up with cookies or whatever else to get the coaches attention. TRhit is right, the coaches know. The only intangible is the new kid. And with in that mind hopefully your kid knows another position. because inevitability the new guy will be all world at your sons position.

While competing for a position in H.S is vitally important to a players growth. Competing on a high end travel team is probably more so. Primarily because the higher end teams are looking for the best talent period, typically from the region not just a neighborhood.

I had a freshman kid coming out for 'open conditioning' last fall and the very first practice the dad shows up about half way through practice and actually comes ON to the field to stand there and watch! I ignore him as I'm throwing BP and hope he'll get a clue. His kid finishes taking his cuts and the dad calls him over to talk!! I have to yell from the mound, "Hustle back onto the field!"

I let it slide figuring the dad wouldn't come again.....wrong. Next day, same thing. But this time, dad is walking amongst the players at the end of practice when they're picking up their gear and overheard to ask a returner: "So how many games we gonna have this year?"

Next day I give every kid a handout to take home essentially banning parents from appearing at the field. We have a parking lot up behind right field and they can sit in their cars and wait if they want. Haven't seen the guy again but, as much as I've told these kids that 'open conditioning' guarantees them nothing towards making the cut, the freshman always talks as if he's already made the roster......surely dad's influence, and it rankles me no end.

Krak,

how many players do you have trying out over their for your program? just curious.

The largest group I've seen was about 35, but that was five years ago (the first year our high school had reinstated it as a sport) and under a different coach who didn't have any pre-season program - everyone just showed up cold on March 1st or whatever it was.

As for me as coach, I'll have about 20-25 total this year, but they cut thmeselves, generally, through the course of 'open conditioning' which runs from fall through winter and right up to tryouts in late Feb. They see the writing on the wall, so to speak, because they are either badly out of shape and can't keep up with the better guys, or simply see they can't catch balls thrown at them by some of the better guys, things like that. The only kids I don't see, and who remain a mystery, until tryouts are the guys who play both football and basketball and are forbidden by their coaches to participate in any other kind of sport conditioning during their seasons.

By the time tryouts actually arrive, I'll have roughly 15-18 kids out there and carry a final roster of 12.

We have no FY or JV teams......it's all 'Varsity'.

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
99.9% of parents find a way to promote their kids. The ones that don't figure out HOW to go about it get egg on their face. You have to be innovative and subtle and appear to be a "non promoting parent".

I could share volumes of instances where parents promote their kids ---- Why even the HSBBW was built on the foundation of helping kids get to the next level because there wasn't enough information available.

Many parents pay thousands of dollars promoting their kids and are even encouraged to do so by the vast majority of members (me included) on the HSBBW. This "concept" is WIDELY accepted for players moving from high school to college. This idea of promotion is embedded in parents minds almost from the day their child is born. Trust me NO 4 year old child signs himself up or drives himself to "T" ball! Somehow this "promoting" is taboo when moving into high school is hogwash, you just have to figure out how to do it. I can tell you you DON'T approach the HS coach and tell him how good your son is or send him a video. Here's a informative article reprinted by the founder of the HSBBW.

Two fathers
I started promoting my kid when I realized he had a special baseball talent around 8-9. I felt as if was my obligation to do so. I selected the teams he was going to play for. I selected the camps he would attend. I made sure he got to bed and got up. I fixed him breakfast. I probably would have fed him anyway. There is a thin line between purchasing "skills training" and promoting. Your son has a name and the more people that know your son's name the better. Why some parents even go so far as to have their sons name on the back of a "look alike" uniform ---- like "Johnny's Dad"


Understand there is a duty and obligation to promote your child and at the same time their is much negativism in doing so. Good luck.
Fungo

I don't see this as promotion. You only helped your son develop and place him where he was visible. He did the work on the field.

Let me pose this question... many people have said "The coaches already know the players". How do they know the players? Is someone calling them, are they calling people? Do they scout games? If the freshman hs coach in my area were to scout games, I do not think he would have time for much else.

quote:

Next day I give every kid a handout to take home essentially banning parents from appearing at the field.

Krakatoa, the dad in your example sounds like a jerk, but we have all seen one on almost every team we or our kids have played on. I'm curious as to why you handled it that way. Why wouldn't you talk to the guy, or have an assistant talk to him, and handle it with him directly rather than penalizing all the other parents? I can't imagine a school administration backing you if one of the "model" parents challenged it.

quote:

How do they know the players?

Baseball is a community --- many call the flow of information a grapevine. Coaches develop their reputable sources for information. Call it a what you want but baseball player information flows freely. The more talented a player is the more "talk" he generates.
Fungo

quote:

I don't see this as promotion. You only your son develop and place him where he was visible. He did the work on the field.

Not only did my son have a goal --- which was to develop his talent and get better. I also had a goal and that was to see that his talent didn't go unnoticed. I see that as promotion. I promoted my son by putting him in the right place at the right time. Many words are tossed around --- MARKETING, PROMOTING, EXPOSURE but the goal is the same. Maybe it's semantics. For some reason there seems be a negative connotation surrounding "promoting" and a positive one around "exposure", and an acceptable one around "marketing".
About 2001 a showcase promoter came on the HSBBW looking for pitchers that were 90 mph or better and also wanted a scouts recommendation to verify the parents claims. My son was over 90 mph and I indicated this provided a couple of scouts' names. He emailed me back and explained of all the responses he received, the scouts verified mine was the only truthful one out of about 50. Maybe the other 49 were "promoting" their sons and I was "exposing" mine --- I don't know --- but I honestly thought I was promoting my son. Maybe many parents embellish their efforts while promoting their sons giving parental "promoting" a bad name.

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

Krakatoa, the dad in your example sounds like a jerk, but we have all seen one on almost every team we or our kids have played on. I'm curious as to why you handled it that way. Why wouldn't you talk to the guy, or have an assistant talk to him, and handle it with him directly rather than penalizing all the other parents? I can't imagine a school administration backing you if one of the "model" parents challenged it.

Husker, I certainly don't mean to speak for Krak but I have found that some people (and Coaches are people lest we forget) handle matters much more differently than we would. I am like you and probably would have walked over with a smile and informed the dad that parents were not allowed on the field during practice. Maybe he just didn't know prior and assumed it was ok...??? Who knows.
I think Krak probably handled it the diplomatic way and by doing so made sure that the other dads who wanted to walk the field the next day stayed in their cars.

I don't however see it has "penalizing" the other parents. Again, I see it as informing and educating. IMO

Fungo,
What you posted makes sense, but I do see a difference between doing what you did and a parent approaching a HS coach for the first time to tell them about their player.
I have a great idea, why not have the PLAYER approach the coach and introduce himself, would leave a much better impression than dad or mom doing it.

YoungGunDad....I actually don't find Krak's handling of the matter unusual based on coaches I have been exposed to. I'm not criticizing as I don't know anything more than he has said. I am curious as to the thinking tho.

What I have found is that coaches in general seem to shy away from confronting parents. To me, no coach should be afraid to put a parent in his place. None the less, I do find it sad when coaches don't address a problem head on and instead throw all the parents in the woodshed...especially when most don't belong there.

That's a little like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Does it "hurt"...no. Is it right...no. Is it the path many coaches choose...sadly, yes.

If you really want to be involved, then channel your energy toward your son and building up his confidence as much as possible. Promoting son to coach is a very risky move. More bad things than good things can come out of it.

As a coach, I'd notice a kid who introduced himself to me prior to the season so that he wasn't just another number during tryouts.

quote:

Originally posted by grinder:
Let me pose this question... many people have said "The coaches already know the players". How do they know the players? Is someone calling them, are they calling people? Do they scout games? If the freshman hs coach in my area were to scout games, I do not think he would have time for much else.

When the current head coach took over my son was in 8th grade. The coach ran the middle school practices about five times. He had lunch several times with the three players he expected to have early impact on the program. It was the beginning of building a mindset with players entering high school. He requested summer team schedules for players not playing in the local jr legion and legion programs. The smart players looking to move up tried out for his 18U fall ball team.

Because I had already had other dads ask if they could come 'help out' during practices, and I just needed to lay down a blanket policy for all.

Several kids that are trying out are coming from "rec" baseball where parents practically have picnics on the field while their kids are practicing and I wanted to make it known in one fell swoop that this wouldn't be acceptable at this level. It was a nicely worded form which was stapled in with several other documents I needed to get out to folks.

In re-reading my post, it's clear that "banning parents from appearing at the field" sounds more draconian than what I actually ask which is simply that parents refrain from coming onto the field, don't talk to their kids during practice, and that they stay up in the parking area until practice is over.

Admin would back me. Football and basketball have the same sort of policy regarding gridiron/court presence.

Once cuts are made and I have my roster, I'm much more open to people coming down and watching along the fence and so on.

What really amazes me (and probably why this topic is so engaging) is that so few people really understand how to behave within an organization. Just as with most modern employees, people show up with an unearned sense of entitlement, they dig in their heels when they're asked to do something they don't want to do, they try all kinds of ways to circumvent the organization's processes (such as politicing or promotion), and then justify their behavior by whining about the other people in the organization.

Listen to the messages from all the coaches on this post. They all have pretty much the same conclusions about parent's role in their organizations. They need parents to let their sons participate on the coach's terms without interfering. (Some coaches clearly don't know how to put them there, but that's a different organizational problem for a different forum).

Statistically, some small percentage of HS coaches are going to be total buffoons who let all the wrong factors infuence their evaluation of players, and I'm sure most parents feel like they're dealing with that minority. But that's just the point - the parent's aren't dealing with those coaches, since parents don't play HS baseball - their sons are. And their sons need to learn to deal with them and succeed (or God forbid even fail once in a while).

That makes sense with your added color, Krakatoa. Thanks. I wasn't thinking the rec transition that you described. I was thinking the "draconian" version and playing it against my perspective of my son playing with a paid coach since he was 10. No parents on his teams would dream of camping out on the field....but when you pay a coach, most of those parents are interested enough they want to be around to observe what they are paying for.

Krak - We know of several programs where parents are banned from the field. Ours are not restricted, but I don't recall any parents sitting near the field or talking to the coach or players during tryouts! My son would expire of embarrassment if we did that! We have an unspoken agreement. For the most part we pretend we don't know him during baseball activities.

Can't wait for son to drive. July! We will be at the games, but won't have to do practices! WOOT!

This was a dilemma I faced a few years back when my son was entering 7th grade. Both of my boys never attended schools in our home town or played baseball here as they both went to a catholic grammar school a town over from ours and there was never any intention of either one attending high school here. Both boys were accepted to magnet schools run by the county so they saved me a bundle with catholic high school tuition.
When I found out that my youngest son was eligible to tryout for our public middle school team because his catholic school did not offer baseball we decided to give it a try and he made the team, he was also named team co-captain 2 weeks into the season. By the end of his first season with the middle school team I later found out that not only did the high school varsity coach know all about my son but he was already making plans for him when he hit high school. As freshmen in high school he was named the starting catcher on the varsity team and this was all before I have even met or knew who the varsity coach was. One of the things I remember the most when I had my first discussion with the high school coach was him thanking me for NOT trying to promote my son or his baseball abilities and to just let him do his job.