Pronation: Changeup?

You should "pronate" (finish thumb down) on a change, just as you would a 4-seam FB, so at release they appear the same to the hitter. You can find video on You-tube. The ball will move down and to the arm side.

No changeup clip, but here is Roger Clemens pronating a slider.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evitsfnNgR0

On a changeup, most of the pressure should be on your thumb/first finger. You should get a nice sink if you hold it in the tips of your fingers.

I'm sure if you look up some Marshall clips you will find a pronated changeup.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

When you throw a slider, you don't pronate at all. In fact, it's the opposite of pronation. A slider you are "cutting" the ball, slightly turning the wrist inward. Pronation is turning the wrist outward. Pronation also has nothing to do with pressure on the ball. When throwing a changeup, I've never heard of someone using different finger pressures to get specific spin.

When throwing a changeup, make sure the grip is loose. When I throw it, the pronation aspect is forced by me telling myself "throw the thumb at the catcher".

http://www.letstalkpitching.co...viewtopic.php?t=8220

When I throw a changeup (circle) I throw it where the circle is pointed towards the catcher at release.

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When you throw a slider, you don't pronate at all.

The video show Clemens doing it. I have never pronated a slider, as cannot get a cutting action doing this.

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When throwing a changeup, I've never heard of someone using different finger pressures to get specific spin.

Interesting, I've heard about using pressure points for movement all my life....

7steps-

The video shows Clemens throwing a slider. Nowhere does it show anything about pronation. Pronation means turning the wrist so the inner bone is parallel with the elbow.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pronated

I also agree that finger pressure is commonly used in pitching. I just have never heard of someone putting excess pressure on fingers for movement on a changeup. I personally throw a circle changeup, and pressure is taken off my pointer finger and my thumb, because of the grip. I don't intentionally put extra grip on any fingers in order to garner more movement. Perhaps I misunderstood what you had said in your original post.

Pronation is turning the thumb towards the body or down. Supination is turning the thumb towards the outside of the body or up. There are a number of different ways to throw a change up. My son throws a circle. Ball comes off the middle and ring finger as he pronates. Same motion as fastball bit with less speed and the ball drops when it gets to the plate. You will get different movement depending on the type of change and arm angle. As long as you are getting a decrease in velocity and movement, doesn't matter which way you throw it. Experiment with different grips and see what works for you.

Is this not pronation?

pro⋅na⋅tion  /proʊˈneɪʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [proh-ney-shuhn] Show IPA
Use pronation in a Sentence
See web results for pronation
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–noun 1. rotation of the hand or forearm so that the surface of the palm is facing downward or toward the back (opposed to supination ).
2. a comparable motion of the foot consisting of abduction followed by eversion.
3. the position assumed as the result of this rotation.
4. any similar motion of the limbs or feet of animals.

Yes, that is pronation. Which is exactly what happens in a changeup. And the exact opposite of what happens in a slider.

Devil's advocate hear not saying either way. However, Brent Strom and Mike Marshall have both discussed pronation when throwing a slider.

Look at videos frame by frame. After release the thumb pronates on every pitch. It is the body's way of decellerating the arm and protecting the elbow joint.

The elbow joint is a hinge joint and without pronation the olecranon process(tip of the ulna)will slam into the olecranon fossa(basically the elbow joint where the ulna connects to the humerus). IMO those that protect their elbow joint best pronate earlier than those who do not pronate early.Whether they pronate early or late, pitchers pronate immediately after release on both the change and slider.IMO if you try to create spin/break by supinating(coming around the ball), you are asking for trouble. The elbow joint is not built to rotate.

The healthiest way to throw the slider is to throw the top of the ball with fastball arm action & mechanics. Focus on keeping the ball inside your wrist(RHP fingers pointed at 11 o'clock).This also will give you a chance to have more consistent break and a shorter quicker slider.

The value of early pronation on the change up (as the pitcher's hand starts forward)is that force is not directed straight to the target. The force is inside the ball & not behind it which takes speed off the ball with the same amount of arm speed.Combine that with grip variations (looser/deeper)then you can further reduce ball speed with the same arm speed & effort that you throw the fastball.

JW

Well said Jerry.

The only thing I would add is that the change up is one of the most difficult pitches to throw consistently and it takes lots of work. Pronating a little more may give it different look and break, but particularly for young pitchers work on something that works for you.

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Look at videos frame by frame. After release the thumb pronates on every pitch. It is the body's way of decellerating the arm and protecting the elbow joint.

Yes, Jerry!! In Karate, the practioner is taught to "twist the fist" at impact. It was years before I realized that this 2000yr. old secret was just a means of protecting the elbow, thru pronation, during those tens of thousands of repetions.