Proper Arm Maintenance?

As an ATC, your trainer at Waubonsie is correct. I've been doing that since I was with the Marlins in the early 90's. Most high school situations do not allow for that to happen though. One trainer for the whole high school athletic program is not condusive for 'milking' kid's shoulders. I also don't think you need a certified ATC to milk a shoulder, but monitoring the 'milking' technique is not easy, just like asking a kid to hit fungos to your outfielders. We as coaches know how that goes.

So if your ATC can do that for your pitchers then your in a great situation, but for most of us have to rely on the old ice bag.

While I'm on this subject, lets talk about long toss. Talk about something that is screwing up kid's arms. Tell me where in the game of baseball do you release the ball behind your head? It seems like in the game you release the ball out in front. Agree? Then why do I have kids that can't see that? They want to increase their arm strength, which I agree with, but at the same time they are practicing poor mechanics. I work with them about releasing the ball out in front and on a downward plane and if they can not deliver the ball on the fly to their target then they should bounce it in. I talk about bouncing it in 3/4 of the way to their target. Don't get me wrong some kids do pick up on this, but most of the know it alls continue to throw the ball with an arc. Then they overthrow our 3rd baseman in the game or they can't find their consitent release point on the mound. I've worked with great pitching coaches, Greg Hibbard and Rich Dubee in pro ball and they also found the same kind of resistance to this technique, but why the resistance?

If you watch infield/outfield you can see the players with the strong arms, because when they skip the ball off the ground the ball stays low and reaches its target.................why can't kids see that?

What is so hard about monitoring the milking process? It seems
easy enough.

I think its about time we as parents and coaches get to the bottom of the LONG TOSS subject. Is it good for the arm or not good for the arm. How is it to be performed, with a slight arch
or on a line. Does it strengthen the arm or not. I have heard
contradicting coments on each one of these points.
Would the real trouth of LONG TOSS Please stand out.

Here is a little some thing to think about. Playing Darts and the "release" point in baseball. For any one thats ever needed
that one Bulls eye to win you know what I'm talking about.
"The Release Point" find your target and focuse on the release
once you hit your target keep doing it and build your muscle
memory. It's pretty easy.

i would say that long toss is really no good, i mean ya know its always nice to throw the ball a long ways and hit the guy in the chest, but whenever i long toss for a long period of time i always have fix my realese point so i am out in front again, not only that put it puts way too much pressure on my arm and it always is a bit tighter the next day, as far as milking vs. icing i would prob go with the milking, the best way to prevnt sore arms (for me at least) is to run and run ALOT not olny will it get the latic acid out buy it will improve your stamina.

James Dinges

Jerny.......do you even coach or are you just a parent? It sounds to me that your just a parent. 'Milking' someones shoulder although looks simple, is not simple. There is a technique to it just like any other skill. I mean you must have a job and I'm sure anyone can do it right, including myself who is just a teacher, so whatever your job is I could walk out of my classroom and take your position......huh? Point is, if you want done right, then you need a skilled practioner doing it, as simple as it seems you need someone who understands lactic acid build up, musculature, and other medical knowledge...... plain and simple. Hey lets have the kids perform Tommy John surgery! A whole lot cheaperm wound'nt you say.

Its apparent that jerney is just a parent, I'm just suprised its not about Oswego. Stay with just parenting and please don't get into analagies that you don't know what your talking about.

Long Toss...this is the best way to strengthen your arm, period. Yes, you need proper mechanics and not throw the ball on an arc. Obviously throwing the ball on an arc means you are releasing the ball behind instead of out front. Proper long toss is your same pitching mechanics, ball comes out on a line, even if it has to bounce to someone. Why don't kids like to do that? Simple...ego...if they bounce the ball, they think people will look at them and say they have a weak arm. Now, if I can throw the ball 300' on a fly...that's impressive! Sure it is, but it does no good. The thing I have found to work is that if I demonstrate to the kids so they see what the repurcussions are of improper long toss/mechanics, they sort of get it. I also have a series of pictures of major league pitchers to "show" what I am talking about. It is one thing to tell them, it is another to show them yourself...but it is really effective if they see the major league guys in a picture. Sure they see them on TV, but they are not looking at the mechanics. A still photo of Mark Prior (or whoever) can go a long way.

Milking vs. Icing...obviously milking is not something that people will do because it takes a little longer and let's face it a lot of parents do not want to take the time. Some will, but most won't. Icing and running is the best way to go if you don't have a trainer at your disposal...a lot of schools don't. My pitchers run and ice after every bullpen session in practice whether their arm hurts or not. So far, no complaints or arm soreness.

I am a parent, Hopefully not considered (A Lousy Parent).
As for coaching, I guess that's questionable just like any other coach. A coach is only as good as his knowledge that they
acquire over time, and the tools they have to work with.
Guys: these are only questions that I have. Why the negative
feedback. "St. Charles": I gues if I was a total nut about my
town and local H.S. team my screen name would be some thing like
"OSWEGO" Hay, that's not a bad idea "ST.CHARLES".

I have no idea how the technique of Milking is, but is their a website or can someone give detailed instructions on how to do it. i have arm problems and i am interested to see if this will help. thanks for any info

GE3B,

Here is a quickie, remeber to work with gravity! Thats important! Sit down with your arm in the air and your hand on the person shoulders, with that person standing straight up from your side. Have that person use some sort of sports cream. Lightly massage from the elbow to the shoulder. Keep working downward from the elbow to the shoulder, gently. You want to work towards the heart. The practioner can see the blood move down towards the shoulder. This can go about 10 minutes after you throw and you can see positve changes within a couple days or even weeks. This might not work in all cases, but for most kids who are experiencing some soreness this usually works. This of course is not in lieu of a doctor's visit. This is for the someone who would like to change a mainenance routine to might not be working.

thanks alot, i hope it helps me some!

Jarthur: This is why I asked this question. Thanks for sharing
your information.

The statement was made about how easy this (milking) seems and then it was alluded to that coaches that are non certified trainers could do this. THIS IN THE AGE OF THE LAWSUIT? Whether I did it right our wrong, simply doing this is opening me up to questioning if that child has a sore arm the next day. If our trainer doesn't do it, it doesn't get done if it isn't some long standing traditional treatment such as ice. BTW, I thought that a "flush run" was the proper way to take care of any latic acid that is in the body. We ask for 1/2 mile or more but really should be more like a mile or more.

Long Toss, I have several former players in the pros. A few are pitchers. Almost to a player, they say that "long toss" is really misunderstood by everyone. "Long toss" according to them is really 2 seperate things. One is throwing from approximately 150-170 feet feet with the ball being released at the height of the forehead. The other is what is described as bouncing the ball and is achieved at approximately 100-150 feet. This is where the ball is release at eye height and the ball will bounce into a fence at the end of ball flight. I agree that when the ball is being released behind the ear, you are not getting a good arm circle and so, you are not benefiting as much as you should.

Any thoughts on these ideas?

"There comes a time when you have to stop dreaming of the man you want to be and start being the man you have become." Bruce Springsteen

With all the differant opinions, this is like trying to pick a
candidate for president.
One, stick with the one every one knows (Bush) or in this case "ice".

Two, Go with the new guy that promises to give you the moon with a fence. (Every one) or in this case "Milking".

I guess the more info. we get on our subject,
Hopefuly the better off we'll be. Keep it coming
guys. The youth of our nation or team are depending on us.

Fungo master, StCharles,

What did Jerny do for you both to be rude. Sounded to me like he was asking questions, not claiming to be an expert. Show some class, even if some of Jerny's posts in the past have been a little over the top.

quote:

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Originally posted by jerny1111:
What is so hard about monitoring the milking process? It seems
easy enough.

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That's a bit more than over the top.

What is so hard about performing surgery? It seems easy enough.

I bought a book about theraputic sports massage. It explains how and why to massage muscles after exercise. It's not brain surgery. Folks who give massages for a living don't have to go to med school. It's true you should first increase blood flow and push out lactic acid and then ice. That's exactly what they do in physical therapy for us older folks with muscle problems.

"Success is where preparation and opportunity meet" Bobby Unser

Coach B and jarthur I give up! These people just don't get. brain surgey

LOOK MAN,DON'T PISS ME OFF..........

Just read and learn.........

I think you touched a nerve!