Pryor v Newton

Cam "didn't" know his dad asked for money

Pryor had to know he was getting a Tattoo, unless he was passed out...maybe he should of used that line in the NCAA investigation.

NCAA investigator-Mr. Pryor, did you know you were getting a Tattoo at the shop?

T. Pryor-No sir, he asked me to sign a ball for his son and the next thing I know I wake up with this wicked Tattoo on my arm, no clue how it got there!

NCAA-Ok sounds good

We can't blame the kids.

Their ability got them out of trouble before and allowed them to be the darlings of the 'givers'.

We as a society create these types of individuals. From school adminstrators right up to state athletic councils will turn a blind eye to the exploits of the gifted athlete who may bring money and/or renown to the system.

Football has been so abusive of the players that some players have graduated college while still unable to read at an elementary school level.

Baseballs troubles have been caused at the top. The rot starts when MLB spends millions just for the 'right to talk' to a foreign player. There was a time when MLB seems to have been involved in sports espionage in getting Cuban players to defect. Why is it that MLB can spend millions in other nations in the search and development of future players, but no such development complex exists in the states?

MLB's newest push has been for inner city youth to become stars. We have seen time and time again that inner city youth come with inner city problems. MLB then has become a bunch of rowdies that parents would dread to have their children emulate.

The other main 'rot at the top' is USA Baseball. They are supposed to be promoting the game and presenting USA talent in international competition. Many people have never heard of USA Baseball. We never hear of USA Baseball advancing proposals to the NCAA to make baseball a better supported sport. Their inaction in their role as our nations keepers of the sport has allowed baseball to become less and less respected.

Their failure to produce high caliber teams for the Olympics caused baseball to be dropped.

It sees their goal is the extinction of baseball rather than the promotion of our national past time.

Next up for the Buckeyes....Braxton Miller.....I am predicting.....same things will occur !!!

I doubt Cam Newton knew what was going on. Do any dads who embezzle money or commit adultery come home and tell their kids what they do?!? Why would Mr. Newton say "Cam, we're trying to get $200k out of Mississippi State. What do you think?"

Cam not knowing is not only plausible, but very likely.

Redbird I may go along with that but ONLY if Dad doesnt live with Cam and is on his own.

Arizona State baseball players can't play in the playoffs next year at all, lose two scholarships and are on probation until the end of 2013 because the coaches made some recruiting violations. 5 Ohio State football players took the awards they earned in the last few years and illegally sold them for thousands of dollars. They still get to play in the Sugar Bowl on January 4th. How is it fair to punish the ASU athletes for something they couldn't control this way, but to let the OSU athletes, who knowingly profitted from their actions, play in their Bowl game? Another money-driven, ridiculous NCAA ruling.

J H to add to what you're saying - how many of the OSU players will end up in the NFL next year and totally escape punishment? Will the NCAA go back and punish the school then?

Plus in the case of ASU they are punishing the whole team for the coaches mistakes while OSU has 5 guys mess up and they are the only ones to get into trouble.

I am a college athlete and know first-hand that a lot of the time, the NCAA has a lot of obscure rules that most of us don't know about and don't really need to worry about. I'm not saying I am the most intelligent individual in the athletic department at my school, and I'd venture to say that it truthful enough to say that my teammates aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. But I am 100% sure that we all know that it is illegal to sell our personal belongings and our fame for profit. The OSU players sold awards they received from the school so they could make some money. I mean c'mon.

If I were the OSU athletic department, I'd be furious at the players. How disrespectful could you be to the school?? Those awards should be memorable for you for a long time. If you can't appreciate all that the institution has done for you over the years that you seem to think that it is morally OK to sell off these items then IMO, as an athletic department, I wouldn't want those players part of my program.

Over the past week I had a conversation with a very high profile college baseball coach at an ACC school about some specific NCAA rules and questioned why they existed (I'd prefer to not say who it was because this is a public forum and I don't want things to get back to the wrong people, but PM me if you are interested in discussing the issue as well). The rules I discussed with this particular coach were baseball-specific, but were still money related.

My issue isn't with the fact that the NCAA has a rule against these infractions. It's not with the fact that they punished Arizona State (after all, they DID violate rules multiple times). But lets be honest here...how much money do you think the NCAA would lose if Terrelle Pryor was not playing in the Sugar Bowl? I'm sure that's what the NCAA was thinking about, and therein lies my issue.

Totally agree J H, I was thinking the same thing as far as these guys insulting their school by selling these awards. You hear about knuckleheads doing this after they go broke from being cokeheads, drunks, gamblers, or in Lenny Dykstra's case a complete idiot con man, but this is the first time I've heard of players selling their awards before they're out of college. Of course the quarterback's lawyer said it was to help his mother. Yeah, right! He might also help her by also getting a degree, but he's not at college for that apparently. But the school, far from being insulted is trying to get them off the hook. Wouldn't want to hurt next years football record just because some "kids" made some trivial mistakes.

I'm not jealous of Pryor or Newton. Pryor will never be a part of the NFL, he's a product of the hype machine. This is what being in the spotlight will get you. No matter who you are, there are aspects of life that touch us all but for most of our kids it's not national news. I would rather my son develop character and life management skills out of the spotlight where immaturity is allowed the time necessary to grow through inevitable mistakes and in time become a valuable asset to the community. These athletes disappoint us repeatedly with their immaturity, poor decisions, disrespect and boldness because we attach monetary value on youthful physical skills rather than personal contributions to the betterment of society. When we endorse their self worship we feed their immaturity. We know they are likely to self destruct but our passion for sport makes them disposable. There have been so many failures that we define them not as disposable but recyclable in order to make ourselves feel better.

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Next up for the Buckeyes....Braxton Miller.....I am predicting.....same things will occur !!!

We are willing to feed athletes into the machine where they are spit out like a chipper shredder. They go willingly, in fact they fight over who goes first. These are the Coor's Light Cold Hard Facts.......... We'd be much better off with absolutely no athletic scholarships period. The NCAA could then focus on education rather than hypocrisy.

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Originally posted by Eric G:
Both kids are worthless, cant anyone live a straight life !!!
Built alike, same jersey #, same results = TAKERS!

Another valid reason to start giving some more scholarship money to baseball players...these scumbags cant accept that they get everything in the world handed to them on a platter they have to go out and break regulations. SICK OF IT.

That's the holiday spirit!!!

Pryor sold his "Sportmanship Award". That's just too funny...

If you never assume the NCAA is the athlete's friend, never assume it will really look out for the athletes, and know that it cares most about cash flow to NCAA institutions, then most of their decisions make perfect sense...in an Alice in Wonderland kind of way.

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5 Ohio State football players took the awards they earned in the last few years and illegally sold them for thousands of dollars

There is nothing illegal about this transaction. There is no pending prosecution in civil or criminal court. The players broke an NCAA rule which, if challenged, could be illegal. What right has the NCAA to restrict the freedom of college students from selling their personal and private property?

See the real issue in this situation. The suspension and football games are temporal & trivial.

I have some really mixed feelings on this.

Most of these players come from families that don't have extra money to send off to their children in college. Most of these kids wouldn't even be in school if not for football. I am sure most of your sons in college have ready access to $$ if needed, I am pretty sure there are many who don't have that luxury. And I am sure that most of you wouldn't expect your sons to work while away at college.
Ok so perhaps exchanging autographs for tatoos is not something our kids would do, but most of our kids come from different cultures.

I am not standing up for what they did, but I also don't know their own personal situations.

I don't see any problem with the consideration of a stipend. I used to, but I have changed my mind in recent years as college sports gets bigger and bigger.

All NCAA players get "gifted" for post season play, most really couldn't care less about those gifts, or rings, etc. I am sure they all would much rather get cash. I am sure you all know about the scandel where players from one school drove to a bowl game instate and asked for reimbursement of miledge and expenses (when they drove together). They will keep finding ways to try to get money.

dbg_fan is correct, what they did was not illegal, they sold what was rightfully given to them and earned. The only thing they did was break an NCAA rule.

The big problem here is the whole system is wrong, the schools are packing stadiums week after week after week, and the NCAA at each and every bowl game.

Is an education in return a fair payment for all the money made by their schools? Before you answer, think about it, we all know what players go through to play the game, the injuries, the BS, etc.

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Is an education in return a fair payment for all the money made by their schools? Before you answer, think about it, we all know what players go through to play the game, the injuries, the BS, etc.

An education is more than fair payment. When these athletes come out of college with their degree, they're not $100,000-$200,000 in debt. This is like drawing a salary. They're getting a free ride and they should be grateful for that. This idea that athletes getting stipends on top of the free ride and all the other perks don't fly.

I played NAIA baseball as a walk on - no money.

I'm still paying off student loans and I graduated 15 years ago. I make about $45,000 a year and have another 17 years to go before I can retire.

Using the $45,000 as what I'm going to earn my whole like per year I'm going to make around $1.35 million in my life.

I'm still paying 15 years later for the privilege to earn that $1.35 million for my whole life. I have no doubt in my mind right now that a free education would have been a fair return. If you really think about it - anybody who gets education for free are the ones taking advantage of the system.

dbg_fan- I completely agree with your point. I don't think it is appropriate for the NCAA to have the ability to turn to their athletes and say "Oh, go out there and work really hard so we can monetarily benefit from your efforts" and then turn around in the same sentence and say "even though you have been awarded these items, and they are legally your possession, you aren't allowed to sell them for monetary profit." The concept seems HIGHLY hypocritical, and is just another focal point as to how the NCAA system is so corrupt and downright ridiculous.

Nonetheless, my point was more directed at the athletes' particular stupidity and immaturity. Regardless if the rule is fair or not, it is a rule that is in place. If you don't like the rules, don't play. If you want to play, you have to live with the rules of the governing body in which you participate and honor them. The players know the rules, they just didn't follow them. Is it illegal for a child to open the cookie jar and eat without their parents' permission? No. Is it illegal for a teenager to come back home after their parental curfew? No. Is it illegal for an employee to take a lunch break that is longer than their employer deems fit? No. But they broke the rules of a larger governing body and generally speaking when you break rules, you are punished.

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Originally posted by zombywoof:

quote:

Is an education in return a fair payment for all the money made by their schools? Before you answer, think about it, we all know what players go through to play the game, the injuries, the BS, etc.

An education is more than fair payment. When these athletes come out of college with their degree, they're not $100,000-$200,000 in debt. This is like drawing a salary. They're getting a free ride and they should be grateful for that. This idea that athletes getting stipends on top of the free ride and all the other perks don't fly.

Is it seriously all a free ride? IMO, there is a lot of blood,sweat and tears that goes along with that free ride.

Many of these student athletes would and could be getting an education and not having to pay all back, based on their families income and circumstances, plus they could work to buy things they need, you all know playing for a major sports program doesn't allow that luxury. In my state, a qualified student (not necessarily and athlete) can get his education, from grants and loans by the state and govt and not be in debt for life. He/She can also work while they go to school.


Coach2709,
While I understand your dilemma, which is for many teachers (with their pay in certain states actually a joke), did your school program receive huge profits, national championships, from you playing baseball while at college?
And it was your choice to walk on, whereas somewhere else you could have received a scholarship to help pay for school? No argument here, just that there are many different sides to look at things, and one is that we all have choices.

While our baseball kids are talented, programs don't need them to bring in much needed dollars to support the other athletic programs, we often get mad about those full football scholarships, most likely without it most baseball and other programs wouldn't exist.

Who are we kidding, school athletic programs NEED the Pryors and the Newtons, they don't need our baseball kids.

Again, what they did, sell what they owned was not illegal, just not allowed. Some have perceived them as common criminals.

I don't understand why athletes can't have endorsement deals. Plus, why don't they get the money from their jersey sales. This would solve everything.

The Facebook guy started his business in college.

The next thing is that you will expect EA Sports to pay a student athlete for the use of their likeness in the video games instead a paying the NCAA a licensing fee. How do you expect the NCAA to make money off the backs of students if you take their amateurism rules away. How about a student athlete union?

How about this. If you want to be a professional then go be a professional. That school trains you and prepares you for professional football and then you go reap the rewards of that training and preparation. If your willing to put the work in your going to walk away with a degree to a great school and not owe anyone a dime when you graduate. Your going to get academic asistance the entire time your in school and extra help if you just ask for it.

Something just doesn't sound right about selling your Big 10 Championship rings while your still a member of a program. Maybe its me. But something just doesn't sound right about that.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Coach2709,
While I understand your dilemma, which is for many teachers (with their pay in certain states actually a joke), did your school program receive huge profits, national championships, from you playing baseball while at college?
And it was your choice to walk on, whereas somewhere else you could have received a scholarship to help pay for school? No argument here, just that there are many different sides to look at things, and one is that we all have choices.

While our baseball kids are talented, programs don't need them to bring in much needed dollars to support the other athletic programs, we often get mad about those full football scholarships, most likely without it most baseball and other programs wouldn't exist.

Who are we kidding, school athletic programs NEED the Pryors and the Newtons, they don't need our baseball kids.

Again, what they did, sell what they owned was not illegal, just not allowed. Some have perceived them as common criminals.

TPM my school didn't make millions off of my team but they did make some profit or at least take in some money from our teams. And I really didn't have a choice in the walk on or not situation. My high school team was an absolute joke and my coaches did nothing to help us. I had no earthly idea of how to go out and get a scholarship back then. I was truly clueless as was virtually everyone I knew. So I had no choice in the matter.

In my opinion the money isn't really the issue. There is a rule in place that got broken and the NCAA is refusing to enforce it more or less. Overall I think the rule is stupid and needs to be done away with.

If somebody wants to get control of the whole situation of the money then the NCAA needs to overhaul the rulebook. It needs to go through and figure out new ways to operate in the 21st century. For the past 30 years instead of changing rules to fit the time period they just add rules upon rules upon rules upon rules and it's at the point it's impossible to do anything without violating a rule.

I don't agree with paying players and I doubt I ever will because today I see the perks that come with being a college athlete at a major DI. The free education and all the other stuff that comes with it is their payment. But there needs to be changes so these kids can have opportunities to have / make money to help keep them from doing stupid stuff and make bad decisions.

The NCAA has evolved from a governing body to Big Brother to now it's the crazy uncle who sits in the corner and makes everybody wonder what in the world they are doing.

I actually felt the way Coach May explained it, until my son gave another perspective and some other stuff about how others may see it.

For what it's worth, I don't beleive in paying college athletes to play, but I do beleive that there should be changes made.

I would like to invite anyone who is skeptical about the student athlete labor union to read a Legal Studies Research Paper published in the Washington Law Review authored by Michigan State University College of Law contributors Robert and Amy McCormick:

Abstract:

Grant-in-aid athletes in revenue-generating sports at Division I National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) institutions are not "student-athletes" as the NCAA asserts, but are, instead, "employees" under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA). To be an employee under that Act, these athletes must meet both the common law test and a statutory test applicable to university students. In applying the common law test to athletes, we describe their daily lives through interviews with current and former Division I grant-in-aid athletes. These interviews demonstrate that their daily burdens and obligations not only meet the legal standard of employee, but far exceed the burdens and obligations of most university employees. In addressing the statutory definition of the term employee, we demonstrate that the relationship between these athletes and their universities is not primarily academic, but is, instead, undeniably commercial. As employees under the NLRA, these athletes are entitled "to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection." Consequently, they will be able to acquire bargaining power through collective association and to negotiate their terms and conditions of employment, including wages not arbitrarily limited to the level of athletic scholarships.

Download adobe acrobat entire 89 page paper here.... The Myth of the Student Athlete

Lip Service

I say Tressel should acknowledge that he picked a bunch of criminals to play on his team, he should kick them off the team immediately, get their butts kicked in the Sugar Bowl and start over next year with higher quality players.

Is this a trend at Ohio State or is it just the way football is now?

I find this whole thing to be laughable.

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
Lip Service

I say Tressel should acknowledge that he picked a bunch of criminals to play on his team, he should kick them off the team immediately, get their butts kicked in the Sugar Bowl and start over next year with higher quality players.

Is this a trend at Ohio State or is it just the way football is now?

Criminals because they sold THEIR personal property?? Bad judgement perhaps, but sorry buddy, not criminal. Get real bud. You must be an Illini fan who is tired of OSU winning the B10 all the time

Alright "bud" it has nothing to do with Ohio State...that reference was to Maurice Clarett. I am a Hawkeye fan and am equally disgusted by two of their star players who were kicked off the team before their bowl due to drug using and drug selling.

YOU MORONS! In a year or two, you'll be in the NFL making big bucks. Can't you be patient and wait for the money to start rolling in? Can't you stop smoking dope for once in your life?

I am so turned off on the quality of people in football and basketball. Say what you want about steroids, but I am much happier with my boys having a future in baseball than any other sport.

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"Say what you want about steroids..."

Ok. Steroids,no!



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