punch em out

Well, I've seen that, but I've often seen the opposite, the ump that won't ring a guy up unless he is presented the perfect over-the-plate FB. Some guys have particular trouble judging a curveball in that situation.

The strike zone is the same no matter the count.
Having an exaggerated strike three mechanic has nothing to with it.

HaverDad:

You mean like Leslie Neilson in Naked Gun 2. Or was it 2 1/2. Or was it 3. Well, anyway, the one where OJ Simpson was in a full body cast attending a baseball game and Frank was stalling for time by making strike calls last longer than a normal at bat. Eough of that.

My personal experience and discussion with other umpires at games and clinics has led me to believe just the opposite. With two strikes and less than three balls, most pitchers will not get the call barely in the black even if they got it earlier on a different count. Most of the better umpires I have worked with have to see the ball pass through white to make a strike call when the batter has two strikes.

Similarily, on a 3-0 count, most pitchers will get the benefit of the wide strike zone for that pitch. We should be talking here about fractions of inches but the perception adjustment, if we can call it that, with different counts by certain [certainly not all] umpires and how much of an adjustment it really is probably relates more to an umpires confidence in his knowledge of the book strike zone and how very difficult it is to call the close pitches correctly.

Personally, I don't like the ring em up umpires, especially at the lower levels {say Senior League/BabeRuth levels [age 15] and below}. I think the kid feels bad enough taking a called third strike but to sort of rub it in his face with a dramatic punch out is too much IMHO. If you are going to do that, why not have a different but equally dramatic physical action and statement when a batter walks on ball 4? I'll bet pitching coaches all over the country would go crazy at the first umpire that does that.

Then, on the other side, what about the 2005 World Series incident involving the failure to punch out the White Sox hitter who ran to first? The home plate umpire for that game was not really punching anybody out on strike three calls so how do both the hitter and the catcher know for sure when the call is strike three and the batter is not called out [because the ball in the umpires judgement was not caught by the catcher] and the call is strike three and the batter is called out?

So at the higher levels [high school and above] there might be a certain expectation that a punch out is in order to demonstrate when a strikeout is an official out vs when it is just strike three and the defense is thereby on notice that they must take some further action to obtain the official out.

My personal approach is to call "Strike three" and, if the ball was handled appropriately by the catcher add the phrase "batter is out." It is all verbal. No physical gesture except to casually raise the open right hand in the air and form a fist with the thumb up while saying the phrase "bater is out." Of course, if the ball was not handled by the catcher the call is "strike three" and I stand there mute with my arms at my side. Hopefully, I have established my pattern enough by this point in the game so that the catcher and the hitter both know that in my judgement the defense has not yet obtained an official out.

my punch out is toned way down.......in my area when most of us see an exagerated strike 3 mechanic it clearly says rookie.....

my strike 3 mechanic is simply call "strike 3" take a half step back with the right foot and "pull the chain".....all the while facing the field....I never turn away from the field of play.....

I caught between 400-500 games in my mis-spent youth, and in those days, when dinos roamed the earth, I cant even remember one ultra dramatic punch out, or......... maybe I was too busy.

But Ill be in arizona next week, and Im sure Ill see it there at least once.

HaverDad,

I saw two questions in your post but a supposed connection between them.

First part about wider zone for third strike.
Opinion: Poor Ump. Third strike zone shouldn't be any different.

Second part about show-boating.
As piaa said, probably a rookie. (who has watched too many baseball movies)

As for the possible connection between the two. Sure, the Ump could be opening up the zone so he can show off with his elaborate punch out.
He'll usually find out quickly that his assignments have changed though. Coach calls assignor or other chapter officer and says: "Don't send that clown to any more of my games."
This tends to tone him down some.

As for me, I work on one knee. I call strike three and "pull the chain" without even getting up. It's very brief. No histrionics.

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump:
my punch out is toned way down.......in my area when most of us see an exagerated strike 3 mechanic it clearly says rookie.....

I've found that if an umpire's strike zone is solid, that that speaks more about his quality than how animated he is on strike 3. As a coach, when an umpire had a good grasp of the strike zone, then I would give him tons of latitude on his strike 3 mechanic (within reason, obviously) as long as he didn't say you're out ("he's out" or "batter's out" are acceptable).

quote:

Originally posted by TW344:
Then, on the other side, what about the 2005 World Series incident involving the failure to punch out the White Sox hitter who ran to first? The home plate umpire for that game was not really punching anybody out on strike three calls so how do both the hitter and the catcher know for sure when the call is strike three and the batter is not called out [because the ball in the umpires judgement was not caught by the catcher] and the call is strike three and the batter is called out?

This play is irrelevant to this discussion because Pierzinski swung at that pitch. Any umpire who punches out a batter after he swung at strike three is a rookie, or in serious need of some training. Everyone in the place saw him swing at strike three, no additional mechanic was needed to show that it was strike three.

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump:
my punch out is toned way down.......in my area when most of us see an exagerated strike 3 mechanic it clearly says rookie.....

my strike 3 mechanic is simply call "strike 3" take a half step back with the right foot and "pull the chain".....all the while facing the field....I never turn away from the field of play.....

My sons are now out of high school so I decided to become an Umpire and am currently in training.

We are being taught to punch 'em out on strike 3. what the call they bow and arrow.

Does that mean I am going to look like a fool doing this because no one else is.

fvb10:

You are correct about the fact that the White Sox batter I was referring to swung at the pitch and that it was not a typical "punch out" called strike three situation. However, the point I was trying to make should still have some validity. Just calling strike three in that situation IMHO is not enough. The umpire has to establish some way of informing both the catcher and the batter of the further call of "batter is out" or a gesture that indicates that without vocalizing it or, the filp side, that the batter is not out and whether, in the umpires opiion the catcher missed or bobbeled the ball and the strikeout did not result in an official out.

Sorry about creating that confusion. My bad.

Big Wi,
Its the same mechanic....just different name...pull the chain, bow and arrow.........hands together...pull them apart........

Welcome to the blue side.......best of luck!

BigWI,

I would also like to say "Welcome to Hell"...er, I mean "Welcome aboard"

People expect to see what you call the bow and arrow on the punch out. What puts them off is a lot of extra curricular movement or an especially loud or long "steeeeeeriiiiike threeeeeeeeeee" thrown in with it.

BigWI

Welcome to the other side of the game.
You will definelty enjoy.

Thank you all, I coached for 13 years (youth thru HS spring/Fall ball), watched my kids through HS into college and feel this is a good way to give back to the game I love.

That being said, I do not know if I have the intestinal foritude to walk on the field.

Actually I am looking forward to it.


I feel better not because what was described the last couple of posts is what we are being taught. I just misunderstood the post.