QUESTION

TR - This is a good question. There are a few DIIIs around where I live. All have a wonderful academic reputation.

I wonder, if because DIIIs are known as "academic schools" that some kids are scared off. Most highschool kids have been told and understand that playing college ball and keeping grades up is a challenge. I also think there is an image that the baseball isn't competitive at that level. I know for sure that's not the case. Some have better baseball programs than others - just like any other division.

Like you said, if they want you, they will find the money. Even if grades aren't what they should be to normally qualify for academic money. However, if a kid/parent knows that the player is in over his head academically, baseball or not, I would hope they would look for a better fit. Maybe this thread will make some kids consider DIII as an option.

TR....good question....my son picked a D3....it was everything he wanted in a school...and...most importantly...to him...he stands a good chance of not having to sit the bench his freshman year....or red shirt....as the D1 school told him he would probably have to do...

This past year, he thought for the first time in his young life...that maybe he wouldn't be a major league player.....and once he accepted that possibility...he started to look at the academics....at the campuses...at the other things a school had to offer besides baseball. Don't want to diminish the importance of baseball to him....he had several offers....and he picked the school where he liked the coach, the team, and where his chances of playing ball next year are good......and...where the college met his academic and social goals....and the academic scholarship beat athletic money by a landslide.......

It wasn't an easy choice....the temptation to go to a D1 school was great.....if he did well....then there would be the travel...equipment....instruction....it was difficult to say no.....

I think he is an exception to the rule....and I havn't answered your question TR...except to explain why my kid picked a D3....I've been following a thread started by Fungo about "The College Parent".....and I've come to appreciate my son's choice even more....he doesn't think he'll play beyond college...so he wants to play as much as he can in the next four years....in an academic setting of his choice.....

Maybe the kids that turn down the D3's are not ready to accept the possibility of not being a pro player....maybe they are okay with sitting at a D1...if they get the rest of the package.... I don't think it's the difficulty of academics...because not all D2's and D3's are academically difficult....we learned that early on....

Maybe they don't want to give up on the dream of playing for the Red Sox yet.....as simple as that....and....I don't think my kid has entirely either....but if Theo doesn't sign him....he will have a lot to fall back on....D3's can be a good thing....

I posed this very question to a D3 coach I interviewed several years ago and I will let him answer....


“Many players and parents see D1 as the be all and end all and as a stepping stone to the majors. Some kids maybe got a letter or a phone call from a D1 coach and all of a sudden think they are being recruited or think they are D1 material. As a very successful D3 player and coach, part of my job involves educating parents and students that D3 baseball (and athletics) is very competitive, especially with the talent and participation in New England and not to rule out any school just because they are not D1 or D2. I hate to see players go to a D1 school and never really get a shot to play when they could have had a successful career at another school they may have overlooked because it wasn't D1. But they don’t see D3 programs as being the return they were looking for. There are some people I can persuade to think differently, but many parents and students are holding out for that scholarship to some D1 college.”

The "return" as he mentions stems from two things.


(1) The time, money, and effort that parents and students expend, in lessons, clinics, cage rentals, training programs, AAU/Club teams, showcases - At the end of all that they have so much invested that they see an athletic scholarship as their return on Investment and anything less is often unnaceptable. That's not my opinion, that's the opinion of every D3 coach I have ever interviewed.

(2) Marketing. Kids want to do things everyone else is doing and use things everyone else is doing and marketing and advertising has conditioned us this way. They want to wear Nike, they want to drink Coke. It's the same thing with colleges, they want to go somewhere they have heard of because they think if they haven't heard of another school, there must be a reason why. What's better, getting a 20,000 dollar academic scholarship to a small D3 school or getting a $3,000 baseball scholarship to a D1 school. I will take the 20,000. What sounds cooler - "My son is getting an academic grant at no one has heard of me D3 college" or "My son is on an athletic scholarship at Michigan".

Boston College gets 25,000 applications every year. Sure it's a great school, but it's mostly because everyone has heard of it and it's cool to go there, and there are a hundred other schools that get 2,000 applications, accept 1,500 kids and have just as much money to give away and maybe more in some cases.

arizonared, congratulations to your son and family. Have followed your posts on the process and options that have been available to your son and how his academics have integrated with his baseball skills in this endeavor. I am sure you must be really proud of him and what he has accomplished first and foremost in the classroom and then on the ball field.
I also want to encourage your son not to give up easily on that potential call from Theo. If he can play, scouts will find him at the DIII level. bbscout assured me it could happen and explained how things differ in college from the professional level. My son's experience shows it can happen whether you play DIII or DI. Looking back, he would never trade or change the choice he made to attend and play for a DIII.

In Wisconsin D3 baseball is alive and kicking. The State school system is set up with UW-Madison (no baseball) and UW-Milw (no football) as the D1 schools. Another group of about 8 schools make up the WIAC a D3 conference where schools contend nationally in all sports on a yearly basis. In baseball UW-Whitewater and UW-Oshkosh have been D3 power houses with many drafted players for years. The academics are great and the costs for State residents manageable. If you visit one of these schools you will find support for the sports from the community and students to be on the same level as most D1 schools, but on a smaller scale.

Maybe WI is an exception but I firmly believe that because of weather, the graduated HS player is a year behind the Southern HS player. This gap narrows for the next 3 years and by the time the Northern kid is a college Junior that gap has gone away and many times could compete at the D1 level and/or become a pro prospect.

TR makes a great point about the % that go on, and unfortunatly sometimes parents or players take the name/division value over the "real" value. It's been a slow process but the title IX penalties that hit D1 programs the hardest years ago is filtering talent to the other divisions. As the price of education rises at the bigger schools you are going to see this migration. This is good for the game as a whole. Instead of Johnnie who has some tools, but is sitting on the bench of his dream school, he will now be on the field in a great educational atmosphere, playing baseball. Isn't that what it is all about?

All posts add good insight. I remember my son when asked where he wanted to go said....somewhere someone has heard of -- already listed in the quote from the D-1 coach.

Definately not the voice of maturity -- like ArizREDs son.

But a few other potential reasons...

1. Some Kids just have to climb the mountain. they want to play against the best possible competition. Is this a rational decision that an experienced adult would make factoring in all the variables --no!

2. Kids that don't have great grades may feel that they don't have a shot at academic money or if they got it that they'd be able to meet more rigid standards to keep it.

3. The biggest reason, alot of kids can't see past their nose where their future is concerned. They are just immature.

I think that quite simply we are a "brand name" status conscious society and D-1 is perceived to be the top of the heap with anything else a consolation prize.

My son is at a D-3 and many of his peers through HS/travel/scout team play are at D-1 schools. NEVER heard of a fellow player question his decision, but many parents have asked why he "settled" for d-3 .

Given that he is at a school he absolutely loves, a school typically ranked in the top 5 academically of all liberal arts colleges in the country, a school with a great staff of coachs, amazing facilities etc. etc. I can't imagine him in a better place. Frankly, I don't think he ever seriously considered the division the school played in, but, instead, all other factors that made the school and baseball program what they are.

D-1 IMO is certainly, in general, a higher level quality of play, deeper pitching, deeper rosters. You play about 60 games in D-1 as compared to 40 in D-3 and there's that athletic money. Its the biggest and best package and, again, to many people anything else is just "less" and unacceptable.

Also, d-3's are typically perceieved as only "academic" schools, but there are "academic", "jock" and "party" schools etc. at every level.

In any event, while there is no athletic $$$$ at D-3 most any school has need and merit/academic based $$$$.

From my observations, D-3 programs are scouted and players work just as hard (practice time etc.) and the programs are no less serious about things then D-1 or 2.

At the bottom line I think is the very simple concept of finding YOUR best fit. I learned that notion from this site and while it seems such an obvious concept, I don't think it really is. The division is only one factor of many that determine where you belong, where you will be happy, where you want to go to school and where all of your college experience will best play out.

For many, the biggest/best brand name is assumed to be the best choice and I guess for many it may well be, but considering all options, and many d-3 schools present great ones, would serve most quite well.

infielddad, thank you for your post and congratulations back to you and your son. It's a great story.....we wish him continued success!

Hi HeyBatter! We never seem to connect on this PM thing. Did your son start this year? I did give considerable thought to DIII v. DI and personally just felt I wanted to play at the highest level. Maybe I'll sit my first year and if so, I'll still have four years of eligibility. It's possible I'll only be a role player my entire collegiate career, but for me playing at the highest level was my priority. For others, there are different factors. I have to admit, the free gloves, bats, travel, summer team, press coverage was enticing. Maybe I got sucked in, but as my high school coach told me if it doesn't work out there will be DIII schools that would love to have me. It doesn't always work the other way. Again, these are my personal reasons.

TR - I think I may have posted this before. But I had a discussion with my son's high school coach. While the discussion was about my son's pitching coach.. who has a world series ring as a pitcher... and why my son should not use him. Went something like this..Your son will not play division 1 ball unless he gets a lot better..when I mentioned naia,JC, and other NCAA divisions he said "If you can walk and chew bubble gum you can play division III ball." I think it is attitudes like this nonsense that people listen to. I don't see my son in the pros but if he wants to play as long as he can what difference does it make where he plays? He will go to college somewhere and I think the experience on the team is well worth the effort. By the way, my son's HS coach never played an inning of college ball. He focused on History.

so basically your son's high school coach doesn't know anything about college baseball?

I always told my players: if they keep an official record of the game, then it matters, and play as long as a team will have you, because when it ends you have to go to work.