Question about Freshman?

Velocity is always a big topic and "slow thrower" parents down play velocity and even point out the flaws of the heat merchants and parents of "hard throwers" explain the many benefits of the God given talent. I might add that lefty's that lack velocity are called "crafty".

Personally I would call a LHP in the 60's a first baseman but only if he can hit.

For a LHP HS freshman pitcher:
72-76 is good
76-80 is excellent
80-84 is exceptional
85 and up "gifted"

I see this is your first post. Welcome to the HSBBW.
Fungo

Seeing you're from Alabama I'll even throw in a "War Eagle" or maybe a weak "roll tide"

If you have a kid throwing right now 76-77 in December weather. What do you think he will throw in April and May weather(80 and hotter)? We threw 76 in 44 degree weather at a showcase.

Thanks

By the way 36-0.

First I wouldn't focus on velocity, not trying to downplay the importance, it just becomes counter productive for your son's future if you focus on it. I'm just guessing that your son will probably pick up 2-3 MPH by the start of games (not practice) but a lot depends on what shape your son's arm is in currently and how effective he is in getting it in the best condition possible for next season. Your son sounds like he's in a good position to have a good career on the mound. We can talk about velocity today but again don't FOCUS on velocity. If he's 77 now and he increases to 80 this spring/summer and we follow the rough estimation of adding 3 mph per year while in high school --- your son should be closing on the 90 mph mark by his senior year of High school. Let me suggest now that you establish some sort of "routine" and/or "guidelines" to avoid overuse and injury. Proper mechanics also improves velocity and minimizes injury so I suggest you get him with a competent instructor to learn HOW to pitch --- not how HARD to throw.

Best of luck,
Fungo

36-0 reflects the score of the '08 Iron bowl. Bask in your victory while you can! Y'all need to watch out tho -- we just hired a new coach --- old what's his name.

love summer time ball, I sent you a Private Message.
Fungo

There are a bunch of threads on velocity so do some searches in this forum and you will find all kinds of information.

In general:

Freshmen ave: 70

JV ave: 75

Vars ave: 80

My son was a freshmen last year and I have a stalker and the highest velocity I saw was 78. (and I gunned a lot of kids) Top end Freshmen were 72-75.

BUM will tell you (and I agree) be obsessed with velocity but be as obsessed with mechanics and pitching. Long toss, long toss, long toss.

Don't worry about where he "projects" to be since some kids throw 78 as freshmen and 80 as Sr's, and some throw 68 as freshmen and 90+ as seniors.

BOF what did he throw in December vs April? His freshman year.

My son is a freshman and will be trying out for the team in a couple months. In his pitching workout yesterday, he was hitting 83 and his lowest velocity was 81. Won't mean squat if he doesn't keep the ball down and hit the corners. Velocity is nice to have but location is much more important. Location, movement and velocity is what you'll hear often as order of importance. Fortunately for him, he has all three.

A little off-topic but still about velocity. Doeas anyone know how accurate is measuring approximate velocity from distance long tossed?

Hi LSTB -- My son was a Freshman LHP last year, so let me take a crack at your question.

In our region I saw lots of Freshman Pitchers between the high 60's and high 70's. The biggest thing was finding one who could throw strikes, and get outs, without having to load the bases every inning.

A lot depends on the player's age, and where he is in his physical development, as to what you can expect. My southpaw is young for his class (pitched as a 14-year old feshman). In Fungo's vocab, he is a "crafty" first baseman (fortunately he can hit too).

His progress has gone like this:

Dec 07 -- 62 - 64
Mar 08 -- 66 - 68
Jun 08 -- 72 - 75 (turned 15 in July)

We have not put a gun on him in a while, but are guessing he is in high 70s today. Aspires to be 80+ in Mar/Apr. He has gotten a lot bigger and stronger since June ... as the hormones are starting to kick in.

A teammate of his (RHP) who is a little older, looked like the following:

Dec 07 -- 72 - 74
Spring -- 76 - 78
Jun 08 -- 82 - 84
Fall 08 -- 86 - 89

My guy has been considered a soft-throwing, crafty, lefty; his teammate has been consisdered elite. Fortunatley, they both just go out and win; albeit in different ways.

Sounds like your boy is doing fine on the velocity development front. My suggestions to you would be:

-- keep encouraging him to work on strength and mechanics to continue to add mph's

-- go into the season with at least 2 pitches he can throw for strikes, and preferably 3

-- learn to pitch, not just throw; throw your pitch to your spots; and make the hitter figure it out.

-- remember that the most important pitch in baseball is Strike 1 (pitching ahead takes 100 points off most batting averages)

-- take a page out of Greg Maddux's book and remember that a perfect inning is 3 pitches & 3 outs, not necessarily 3 strike outs

-- to maintain his composure on the mound at all times; don't let them see you sweat

Best wishes to your young man.

Wow, gaining 15 mph in less than one year sounds huge. Hope my 14 yo freshman works as hard this year to get similar gains.

My son is a 15 yr. old freshman as well. Like your son Southpaw, he turned 15 in July. I pulled out some notes the other day and drew some comparisons. April of 08, he was consistently 75 and hit 78. Gunned him in October during a game and he was 78-79 consistently in the first inning. Last two pitches (72nd and 73rd pitches) he hit 81-82.

Prior to this winter, he hasn't done any lifting or band work (always lots of long toss). Since beginning of November, he's been doing band work and weights. Just starting long toss this week. Hoping he'll pick up a few mph from all that. He is 5'8" - 155 lbs.

I agree, throwing strikes is important. He pitched 73 innings last spring. First year on 60-90. He had 97 K's and 29 BB's. Keeps the ball low. Looking forward to how his first year in HS will wind up.

CD -- Best of luck to your son. I can tell you that both of these boys have worked very hard on refining their mechanics to get the most out of what they have.

Both have also started doing targeted strength training for Pitchers, in line with the training protocols of the NPA. Both are also typical teenagers who are working hard on their game, but not without some nudging along the way.

It also does not hurt that the RHP is 6'-2"ish, 165ish; and the LHP is 6'-0"ish and 185. My son is the lefty, and he has been working with the same NPA-centered coach since he was 11. He has been picking up about 10 mph per year since he was 12. He is on track to do that again this year. Obviously, the rate of advancement will decline in the future.

Encourage your son to work hard on refine his mechanics to optimize what his body can do; and to train to develop his strenght, and great things can happen. Best wishes.

Working on mechanics is very important. My son has been working with an instructor for a number of years. Not all year, but between seasons. Refinement of mechanics will do a lot in making the delivery more efficient and consequently pick up velocity and control. Work hard on getting his arm strong (mostly long toss) and get him to a reputable instructor. Gains will be seen.

quote:

A teammate of his (RHP) who is a little older, looked like the following:

Dec 07 -- 72 - 74
Spring -- 76 - 78
Jun 08 -- 82 - 84
Fall 08 -- 86 - 89

.

This kid was throwing 89 the fall before his 10th grade year correct? Picked up 15 mph in 10 to 11 months?

LSTB -- Yes, that is what I have been told. The boys play together on a national travel team, so they see each other every few months, and we stay in touch about progress in between.

I understand he was clocked at a collegiate camp this Fall sitting on 86-87, and touched 89; and he is a 2011. This summer, he was clocked sitting on 83-84 at a tournament the boys played together (and touched 85). He was in the low to mid 70's late in '07 when he and my son played together in another tournament.

A) He is a gifted player. B) He has worked very hard with some very good coaches for a number of years. C) He has gotten serious in the last year about strength and conditioning. A pretty good formula for success.

quote:

I understand he was clocked at a collegiate camp this Fall sitting on 86-87, and touched 89; and he is a 2011. This summer, he was clocked sitting on 83-84 at a tournament the boys played together (and touched 85). He was in the low to mid 70's late in '07 when he and my son played together in another tournament.

He is 1 in a million.

quote:

Originally posted by love summer time ball:
BOF what did he throw in December vs April? His freshman year.

LSTB I missed the question earlier in this thread. Most of the freshmen kids picked up 2-4 MPH during the season. HS is the first time that kids start throwing daily so if they can get into a good daily LT program then it not only helps velocity but more importantly throwing conditioning.

quote:

Originally posted by wz8fvm:
A little off-topic but still about velocity. Doeas anyone know how accurate is measuring approximate velocity from distance long tossed?

Here is a website that can answer your question. Just remember to set the optimum angle at 36 degrees.

Distance and Velocity Estimator

So players should increase their speed 4-5 mile an hour a year?

I have a 7th grader and while he is close to 6'2 he hit 75 right now...I wanted 80 as an 8th grader.

quote:

Originally posted by bacdorslider:
...I wanted 80 as an 8th grader.

You wanted 80?

What are your son's goals?

Forget about what anybody "wants" - it is irrelevant. If you go back through threads here you will find all kinds of numbers from kids who throw 80 in 8th grade and end up a 82 as a Sr, to 68 MPH Freshmen who end up a 92 as a Sr. Work hard, have a good throwing program, have a good pitching coach and have fun. It will be what it will be.

I should have said that I would like to see him hit 80 as an 8th grader, through good work and practice. He wants that as well.

to answer your question he would like to play in high school which I thik he will since he is playing on a summer team that would be considered a freshman soph team. they are 14u major.

then continue into college any where somewhere he just wants to be as good as he can be and I'm trying to support that wish as long as he wants to work for it.

i coached freshman i would say on average they throw 70 anything 75-80 is very good. The average varsity speed is like 80 i would say

bacdor, velocity is overrated. Potential is what scouts look for...1. hit his spots?, 2. late, sharp movement on his offspeed stuff, 3. deception?, 4. how well does he field his position? This all gets down his pitches per inning. Pitch to the call, don't be afraid to pitch to contact. Hey, let the other 10 guys play!

Actually the first thing scouts look at is velocity and potential for more velocity.

I posed this question elsewhere, but it probably belongs here. My son is just starting his freshman year. He won't be 15 until December and we're still waiting for a serious growth spurt - probably only 5-6 and 120 pounds. He's never had a gun on him before, but last week he went to a travel ball tryout and maxed out at 72 mph. Probably cruises 6-7 mph less in games, though has solid control, keeps the ball down and keeps hitters off balance - lot of pop ups and ground balls.
This sounds great, but the worry is the HS coach, come this spring, will look first to the 6-ft, 170 pounder freshmen. How does this 72 mph translate for his current physical size? And how does additional size project to future velocity?

I posted a response in the other thread.

Good Luck!

Jayhook,

Your son actually looks better throwing that hard with his current size. That means, when he hits his growth spurt and "catches up", he'll be throwing harder than the boys taller than him.

Correct if I'm wrong coaches. Coaches know that freshman show up at different stages of puberty. The present skills/potential is what's key.

im a highschool freshman going to be sophmore and i throw 85-87 (profesional grade radar) but there is no one else near me that i know of who can hit 80. freshman are like 65-75 around here. probably different in different states

from what I've seen 80 at 14/15 is a pretty good mark for very good potential. Average decent pitcher might be 77 at 15, 80/16, 83/17 - the jump at 18 is key, many stall and pick up 1-2. Cruising would be 2-3 less. Lefties subtract a couple. To be a bona fide AAA contender you would have to add 2-3.

i'm a 15-year-old lefty going into junior year. i'd say the average for sophomores in the chicago area was around the low-to-mid 70's...our ace was only throwing around 72 and he threw two no-hitters. i throw around 78, 79 but my ball's got a lot of movement, fortunately. i'm only 5'10 with a few inches to grow...but there are a few realllllllyyyyy good/tall/huuuugeee lefties around the area--brett lilek, 2012, he's gotten clocked around 91. so i guess it really varies.

I'm here in NH, not really a hot bed for baseball mind you but I find some of the average speeds listed here to be a bit slow. Or maybe we happen to have some good talent going through my son's school right now. All 3 Varsity starters (2 seniors and one JR all RHP) threw between 84-88. On JV our top two starters (sophomore RHP) threw 83-86. Of our top two freshman pitchers (both LHP) one threw 80-82 and the other threw 75-77.

Mind you the two lefties did dominate at the freshman level (the 80-82 never gave up an earned run all year and averaged just under 2K's an inning..lol) so maybe they did throw harder then most freshman and we were the # 1 ranked school at all 3 levels during the regular season. But most schools in our area had multiple Varsity pitchers who threw low to mid 80's. Not too many pitchers at any level were slower then 75 on average. Heck at our 15U babe ruth tourney last week there were 3 pitchers who threw over 82mph with two topping 85 on the gun several times.

quote:

Originally posted by redsox8191:
I'm here in NH, not really a hot bed for baseball mind you but I find some of the average speeds listed here to be a bit slow. Or maybe we happen to have some good talent going through my son's school right now. All 3 Varsity starters (2 seniors and one JR all RHP) threw between 84-88. On JV our top two starters (sophomore RHP) threw 83-86. Of our top two freshman pitchers (both LHP) one threw 80-82 and the other threw 75-77.

Mind you the two lefties did dominate at the freshman level (the 80-82 never gave up an earned run all year and averaged just under 2K's an inning..lol) so maybe they did throw harder then most freshman and we were the # 1 ranked school at all 3 levels during the regular season. But most schools in our area had multiple Varsity pitchers who threw low to mid 80's. Not too many pitchers at any level were slower then 75 on average. Heck at our 15U babe ruth tourney last week there were 3 pitchers who threw over 82mph with two topping 85 on the gun several times.

Perhaps we should have it be the "average amongst the two top starters on each HS team", then it would be closer to what you are saying. I get the feeling that "averages" don't mean much when were averaging "every" pitcher who throws on a team. There should be two different stats- 1. The average of the top two starters, and- 2. The average of every other pitcher on the team who throws- even the occasional slow thrower.

On our JV team last year (mostly freshman and sophmores), the top two throwers were 76-81 mph while the top two starters on Varsity were 83-86 mph. Most of the Freshman and JV teams (some like ours does not have a Freshman team)around here have at least one kid who can throw 80 or above and another in the mid to high seventies. Every Varsity school around here have at least two mid 80's with a few who touch 90+.