Question about Red-Shirting in Division 1 baseball

Its my understanding most redshirts know they are redshirting near the beginning or before the season. The season counts toward "the 4" if you have played in 20% of the games.

It's my understanding that you are not officially red-shirted until the end of your Freshman year. Now the coach and player might have an understanding that he will be red-shirted and he will receive no playing time, but I don't think that is an NCAA rule.

You do know that if a player throws one pitch, has one at bat, or plays one inning, he is no longer eligible for red-shirt unless you go the medical route.

quote:

The season counts toward "the 4" if you have played in 20% of the games.

Dad04,

That's something I would double check. I've been told otherwise. One inning of playing time equals one year of eligibility. I could be wrong!

May depend upon if it is a true redshirt (not playing) or a medical waiver.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
May depend upon if it is a true redshirt (not playing) or a medical waiver.

TPM,

Is that not what I said in my first post or is there more to it. Just curious.

There always seems to be "guesses", "interpretations", and "here-says" of the NCAA rulebook on this site.

I would suggest that Julie download the NCAA rulebook in PDF format and put it on the site as a reference. When a rule is questioned we can all be on the same page and find and/or interpret the rule together.

Just a thought

Theygrowupfast,
Yes, I didn't read your last sentence about medical, my bad.
I think that downloading the NCAA rulebook would be a huge cost to Julie.
You have to really sift through for all the information.

I suggest that anyone with a rule question go look up the info then share. Then we would have reference.

Q: What is a medical redshirt as opposed to a regular redshirt?
TP: What's normally referred to as a redshirt is when an eligible player is held out of all competition. It saves them from using up one of their four seasons of competitive eligibility. It's a conscious decision made in combination with the coaching staff and player. A medical hardship waiver, which is commonly referred to as a medical redshirt, is when there is limited competition, but a season-ending injury occurs prior to the 20 percent point of the season. Then, every school has the option to make an appeal to the conference office for a medical hardship waiver to get that year of competitive eligibility back

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

I think that downloading the NCAA rulebook would be a huge cost to Julie.
TPM, What is the cost?

You have to really sift through for all the information.
Why do it alone when there are baseball people on this site who would probably enjoy and others who would learn the facts, from a reference that was at their fingertips ?

I suggest that anyone with a rule question go look up the info then share. Then we would have reference.
People don't know where to look for answers and that's why they ask questions. The thread usually starts with a "Does anyone know....?" But, my guess is that if they did know the answer I doubt they would ask the question

Div 1 manual approximately page 135 in my own words

14.2.3.1 any competition regardless of time shall be counted as a season of completion

14.2.4Hardship Waiver student athlete may be granted an additional year for "hardship" for injury or illness if it occurs prior to the completion of the first half of the championship season or the injury or illness occurs when the student athlete has not participated in more than 3 contests (or dates) or 30% (whichever is greater).

There is also rules about if the injury occurs in the fall, etc.

There is no such thing as a medical redshirt, the term redshirt just means that you have been granted one more year of eligibility, regardless of the reason. I was trying to show the difference between the reasons for the extra year of eligibilty awarded, for not playing or for a hardhsip waiver.
After a day at work and speaking to about 125 per day, the mind gets burned by 5pm.

The cost would be in bandwidth.

Natefun, I realized that you are a player and the manual is difficult, hope that this helps.

While people post questions to find out answers, sometimes it is helpful to try a search first, which is really not too difficult for an adult. The question was about a cut off date. I would think that a coach should inform a player prior to season he would be redshirted. But I have seen where a player sits all season on the bench gets one or two at bat or innings and the year is blown.

ncaa.org

.

quote:

But I have seen where a player sits all season on the bench gets one or two at bat or innings and the year is blown.

Know of one right now...pitcher...one inning pitched, ONE OUT...

...and may not see any more time this year.

Yikes!

44
.

TPM

With all due respect you are wrong regarding the medical redshirt aspect thing---there is such a thing and some players have gotten two of them because of certain circumstances---a regular redshirt is a one time thing

Red shirt designation means that the season does not count.

There is no terminaligy in the ncaa that I saw (unless I missed it) that calls it a medical redshirt. Can you possibly find it?

Yes, a player can have two redshirt years, one because he/she didn't play and in good health another for an injury termed a "hardship".

yes there are cases where a player who was intended, OR on the fence for redshirt (NO PT) - BUT he was needed by the coach for in inning .. at bat .. etc & the redshirt opportunity is lost (on occassion coach is just a jerk)


speaking of lost ... TR is lost again

quote:

by TR: wrong regarding the medical redshirt aspect thing---there is such a thing and some players have gotten two of them because of certain circumstances

for medical issues there is only the "hardship waiver" which must be applied for (post season) to ncaa from season ending injury, inc dimentia .. even if some games were played

good luck

Quick question- and I did research a little and could not come up with it

How many players can a team red-shirt in any given year?

quote:

Originally posted by observer44:
.

quote:

But I have seen where a player sits all season on the bench gets one or two at bat or innings and the year is blown.

Know of one right now...pitcher...one inning pitched, ONE OUT...

...and may not see any more time this year.

Yikes!

44
.

It really is a shame - and happens more often than it should - where kids lose an entire year of eligibility with just an inning pitched or a handful of ABs.

Makes me think that perhaps some kind of threshold is in order - perhaps 0.1 ABs per game that the program played (so in a 55 game schedule, 6 ABs before you lose a year). For pitchers, perhaps 3 IP?

I don't know what the right number is, but if you kept the 5 year limit and just made an automatic redshirt year for players who played less than those numbers, it would avoid the careless loss of a year.

Right now, set foot on the field and the year is burned.

08

TO ALL:


A medical, or as TPM terms it a hardship redshirt, is given to a player if they get injured and do not exceed the requirments---keep in mind though medical redshirts have been given to players who went over the limit of games played--this was done on appeal


It is totally different than a frosh redshirt

A coach cannot redshirt anymore players in a given year than he redshirted the year before.

In past years with no roster limitations this rule prevented the coach from redshirting too many players in a given year.

I do beleive that with a 35 man roster and possibilities of injuries, you will se less and less in the future.

TGUF,
I think that you got it.

Where did your post go?

TPM,

I was typing the same time you were and realized you pretty much answered my question.

There seems to be a lot of confusion over redshirts, and even in this thread there appears to be misinformation. So here is a summary which I hope is correct. It will be incomplete, because the NCAA covers a number of possibilities that aren't likely to happen. For example, there are rules to cover what should happen if an athlete begins a season, but was actually ineligble, and it was the coach's fault, etc. I'm not going to summarize that sort of thing. Anybody can read up on these rules by going to Articles 14 and 30 of the various NCAA manuals.

I suspect part of the confusion stems from our loose, but convenient, usage of the term redshirt. The word "redshirt" only appears in one instance in the NCAA manuals, and it is not defined.

The crux of the idea is that under ordinary circumstance an athlete is only allowed 4 seasons of competition, but he is allowed to spread out the 4 seasons over 5 calendar years. That opens up the possibility that an athlete or his program may want him to skip a season of competition, and plan to use the remaining 4 years to cover his 4 seasons of competition. There are rules which allow this.

A. If an athlete does not participate in any kind (games, practice games, scrimmages) of competition in a sport for the entire season, an institution (college) may certify that he did not compete, and the athlete won't have used a season of competition. He can do this once. Just one episode of pinch-running in a scrimmage would eliminate this possibility, excepting for the initial year of a athlete. During that year, the player may take part in pre-season practice games and still redshirt.

B. If a athlete is injured (season-ending) during the first half of the season, and has played in less than 30% of the games, he may apply for a hardship waiver of the 4 seasons rule.

C. If the athlete incurs some other hardship, e.g. death of a parent or the school drops the sport mid-season, and he has played in less than 20% of the scheduled games, he may apply for a hardship waiver.

Note that if a student enters college as an academic non-qualifer, he is only allowed 3 seasons of competition. A non-qualifier is not a redshirt.

The 5 year period in which to complete the 4 seasons of competition is not extended by any any kind of redshirt. However, the 5 years is extendable for a variety of other reasons, including military service, church missions, pregnancy, participation in Olympic or Pan-American games.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
A coach cannot redshirt anymore players in a given year than he redshirted the year before.

I don't find anything resembling this rule in the manual, and it also seems rather illogical. It implies that if a college has no redshirts in any given year, it could never again have a redshirt.

I also think it is contrary to common experience: I believe that the number of redshirts on many teams fluctuates year to year.

quote:

I don't find anything resembling this rule in the manual, and it also seems rather illogical. It implies that if a college has no redshirts in any given year, it could never again have a redshirt.

Good analogy. I always wondered how that "not greater than" rule tpm speaks of would work.

I do beleive that info would be found under counters and scholarships awarded section of the manual and possibly within the particular schools guidelines.

It was posted (the rule) here awhile back by someone else in another discussion. I can't remember which thread.

TPM

They asked you a question

TR,

The number to memebership service for the ncaa is 317 917 6008 or the NCAA 317 917 6222. They were closed.

Why don't you call them to seek out the answer or look it up in the ncaa rules.

Instead of worrying about me finding the answer at this moment, help find the answer yourself, if I am wrong you can post it to the world.

TPM

You are like as Pit Bull and they are usually wrong in what they do--although they mean well

As for the redshirt bit I am talking from 13 years plus of experience---it matters not what the NCAA uses as words --I can only tell you what I know from my experience--BTW I will take years of experience over what a person with no redshirt experience--keep in mind that what is written in books is not always what it is--

Talk to me !!!!