QUESTION AT HOME

Don't worry about that. You must concentrate on the pitch and track it all the way to the mitt first. The batter is not out unless he hits the ball (fair or foul) with his entire foot on the ground and completely out of the batter's box. In the air outside the box (like the front foot of a RH batter bunting for a base hit and starting toward 1st) is not a violation. Don't look for this unless it's obvious. The batter's box is probably gone by the 2nd inning anyway (or at least it should be), so the batter better be way in front of the plate (or touching the plate in FED & NCAA) for you to be able to sell this call.

Thanks Dash....Here's what happened to me yesterday.Bottem of the 1st inning one out man on 3rd. The batter hits a soft ground ball to the 2nd baseman...run scores, batter/runner out at 1st. The defensive coach asks for time and asks if I saw the batter's front foot out of the box, I said I did not and went to my BU asked him. He said he did not....NO PROBLEM! the coach asked me to keep an eye out. The game went 6 1/2 innings 1-0 the home team won. I was just wondering if there was any mechanic I missed....I just want to keep getting better!

Agreed with dash........I do however, throw a quick glance to the feet of the batter when they establish their stance........99% are fine and thats the last I think of it....

Depending on the level of ball you are doing, if you see someone way up in the box or toes on the front line....this may be an opportunity to do some preventive umpiring and casually warn them about hitting the ball out of the box........if this is any level over low youth ball........Dont mention it.......its their job to be legal.....

Also correct in my estimation is Dash's comment that the batters box will be gone in a inning or so.....and most of time in summer ball they are illegally drawn anyway.....

Dont go hunting for this one.....you have the pitches to call..first and foremost.

Why do they make this the home plate umps call? It's almost impossible to make this call. We have seen several players step out of the box to hit a ball (yes they made contact) when we throw one of our slower guys. The plate ump never sees it and the field ump says it's not his call.

Correct me if I am wrong but couldn't the field ump look for this? I realize it's not perfect for him either but seems like he could make the call better.

I don't really say much on this call because I realize it is difficult to call but it gets frustrating to see a player do this.

quote:

Why do they make this the home plate umps call? It's almost impossible to make this call. We have seen several players step out of the box to hit a ball (yes they made contact) when we throw one of our slower guys. The plate ump never sees it and the field ump says it's not his call.

I understand your frustration but the only person who is close enough to make the call is the HP umpire.....there is no way the BU can accurately determine this from 90+ feet away.......

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
Why do they make this the home plate umps call? It's almost impossible to make this call. We have seen several players step out of the box to hit a ball (yes they made contact) when we throw one of our slower guys. The plate ump never sees it and the field ump says it's not his call.

Correct me if I am wrong but couldn't the field ump look for this? I realize it's not perfect for him either but seems like he could make the call better.

I don't really say much on this call because I realize it is difficult to call but it gets frustrating to see a player do this.

The real difficulty in getting this call is due to how seldom the entire batter's foot in on the gound, completely out of the box at the time of contact. Many coaches want the call when all of the conditions have not been met.

piaa ump

I respectfully agree---the BU can determine if an outfielder makes a catch or not without going into the outfield so why not be able to see the foot out of the batters box

quote:

the BU can determine if an outfielder makes a catch or not without going into the outfield so why not be able to see the foot out of the batters box

Yes, you are right I can see the outfielder catch the ball..........yet at that distance I will never be able to tell you if his foot was near or over the line or on the warning track.........

The catch call only requires me seeing posession.... this call requires me to see exact positioning of the foot from 90 feet away......big difference.....

TRhit
Apples and oranges the BU will go out to see on trouble and HP will cover the bases.
And as Dash has said "You must concentrate on the pitch and track it all the way to the mitt first."

PIAA
Thanks for your comments and I was doing a Varsity game yesterday. (NFHS) It was a league playoff game.
AND The line was wiped out by the second inning

And guys thanks for the tip I will look for the players that are crowding the front of the box.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
piaa ump

I respectfully agree---the BU can determine if an outfielder makes a catch or not without going into the outfield so why not be able to see the foot out of the batters box

A study was done once to determine to what extent coaches in the coachimg boxes could determine inside and outside pitches. Balls were placed on the ground at varying distances inside and outside the plate. The coaches at first base could not tell the difference between two inches outside and six inches outside.

Neither will the BU be able to determine all the way out of the box or part way out of the box.

The current mechanic is proper.

Guys

Around here it is like an unwritten rule--BU does move into the outfield to see the catch/non catch--it very rarely happens---they will make the call from the infield dirt--there is no reason the BU cannot see the foot in or out of the box unless he isnt looking. It is certainly easier for him than the PU who is watching the pitch

Agreed but on the close call .... foot in the air and heel on the line...could be tough!

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Guys

Around here it is like an unwritten rule--BU does move into the outfield to see the catch/non catch--it very rarely happens---they will make the call from the infield dirt--<B>there is no reason the BU cannot see the foot in or out of the box unless he isnt looking.</B> It is certainly easier for him than the PU who is watching the pitch

There are actually a couple of good reasons for the BU not see this call. I covered one earlier, and you covered one in your post...he isn't looking...it's not his call.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here or confrontational but I'm just saying that it can be changed so some of the calls can be made. I truly don't expect every foot out of the box to be caught by the BU - especially if he is behind the mound. But if you catch two or three then that should clear up most of the rest.

Should be taught if not sure then let it go but call if it if you are sure. I would rather depend on the BU who is about 100 feet away who is looking at it from an angle than the plate ump who is doing a million things at once and this is probably number 1 million in rank of importance.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
I'm not trying to be a jerk here or confrontational but I'm just saying that it can be changed so some of the calls can be made. I truly don't expect every foot out of the box to be caught by the BU - especially if he is behind the mound. But if you catch two or three then that should clear up most of the rest.

Should be taught if not sure then let it go but call if it if you are sure. I would rather depend on the BU who is about 100 feet away who is looking at it from an angle than the plate ump who is doing a million things at once and this is probably number 1 million in rank of importance.

I also don't want to be confrontational, and perhaps it's my pro training, but...

Think about it. BU in A. Batter has 90% of foot out of the box towards the plate side. Can BU see where his heel is? No.

BU in B or C. Batter has 90% of his foot out towards the pitcher. Can BU see where his heel is? No.

This is no different than base coaches thinking they can call inside and outside pitches from the coach's box. It has been demonstrated they cannot.

PBUC does not make mechanic decisions willy nilly, they are thought out well and experimented with prior to making it "in the book." FED has adopted the PBUX mechanic.

quote:

I also don't want to be confrontational, and perhaps it's my pro training, but...

Think about it. BU in A. Batter has 90% of foot out of the box towards the plate side. Can BU see where his heel is? No.

BU in B or C. Batter has 90% of his foot out towards the pitcher. Can BU see where his heel is? No.

This is no different than base coaches thinking they can call inside and outside pitches from the coach's box. It has been demonstrated they cannot.

PBUC does not make mechanic decisions willy nilly, they are thought out well and experimented with prior to making it "in the book." FED has adopted the PBUX mechanic.

There is a huge difference in what you said about base coaches thinking we can call pitches - you are paid to enforce a rule that is not being enforced. In 15 years of coaching high school baseball I cannot remember a time when an umpire called a kid out for his foot out. Almost every game there is that one kid who will stride so far his foot will be outside the box.

If I am in the coaches box and I say something about a pitch that is in or out that is totally different than what you are saying. I don't change the outcome of the game with what I say - you do. You are paid to call the balls and strikes and if the guy is outside the box or not.

I agree in my scenario the BU should not have to make the call if 90% of his foot is out of the box or not. I expect the BU to notice and call the kid who has his entire foot outside the box.

I'm not suggesting that an umpire goes up there and guess whether or not it happens but to make the call if he knows it happens.

I hope you don't mind if I stay on topic. The discussion was about whose call this should be. It is and should be the PU's call. There is no rationale for BU to attempt to make this call from his distance and angle.

I believe I have posted rationales but whatever - let's stick with the topic at hand.

I think the analogy between the base coach and the BU is to show that the base ump has less of a look than the PU. The only way the BU is going to have a look is if he is inside and the battter steps in front of or on the plate and the PU is going to be on that himself. As I said in the other thread, if the PU thinks the guy is going to be out of the box and there is no line, then draw a line with the bat. He may still not see it but it puts the batter on notice that he is looking.

quote:

Correct me if I am wrong but couldn't the field ump look for this? I realize it's not perfect for him either but seems like he could make the call better.

Sounds like it, but, in reality, the BU is also watching other things, F1's feet, F1's motion through delivery, perhaps a base runner or two.
BU, once the ball is anywhere other than in F2's hand, may never see the batter again until a pitch get's there.
Then, go no go, and most importantly the ball.
If BU was focused on B's feet; then crack, "oh wonder where that went, oh R1's stealing, what balk"?.

The whole problem with this rule/ing, the umpire/s can't watch the entire process, add in the lack of lines "if applicable", yeah right.

Only the ball, and then, perhaps, a check on the feet after contact. But it is really only by chance a "batted ball" will take any Umpires sight anywhere towards the batters feet. Well, did I see him entirely on the ground, out of the box, as contact was made? Nearly physically impossible for any umpire, IMO. Perhaps a coach with-in the safe confines of the dugout with no ball responsibilities would have the spare time to focus entirely on the B's feet.

PU does watch for this, note postion before the pitch, if it looks like it could be trouble, more focus. Perhaps a subtle warning, "don't step out" at the younger ages as stated above.

But the big kids IMO 13 up, in the box to start they're probably gonna be okay.

If the pitch is slow enough to warrant B to step beyond his already allowed 2' 4 1/2"s in front of HP , then it'll be slow enough for PU to see it, and call it.
I only recall seeing called once, in a lot of years of BB games. My player, RHer, "chasing" a bunt attempt across HP.
Even then, the "foot planting" outside the box, over halfway across HP, occured well before the pitch actually arrived.

IMO "coach's", save the worries about out of the box, for pitchouts, Int. BB's, bunts/squeezes.
IMO why this rules was probably introduced anyway.

And if PU doesn't call it, then it didn't happen.

And it's in every Umpire's mind, "a free out", not many umpires pass those up when they present themselves.

I've called it 3 times this wintery/spring in nearly 40 (adult)SPSB games and saw it a few more times.