Gentleman,
Original Post
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First of all, why at this age is there no run rule?
I have seen our team beat soundly before and our team beat the other team soundly before. Based on the information you gave it sounds like you did everything correctly but also look at how your players and fans responded, Did they take the high road.
It just seems to me there is more to this story - maybe not - JMHO
I have seen our team beat soundly before and our team beat the other team soundly before. Based on the information you gave it sounds like you did everything correctly but also look at how your players and fans responded, Did they take the high road.
It just seems to me there is more to this story - maybe not - JMHO
BBcoach1978,
Your situation is not uncommon.
The fact that teams are put together so that a coach's son can play all the time happens everywhere. Unfortunately, many of these teams don't function very well. Doubtless, your team is not the only one that defeated this other team by a lopsided score. The coach of that team is frustrated and embarrassed.
When he accused you of running up the score, even after you stopped taking advantage on the base paths and so forth, he's only lashing out because he doesn't know what else to do. Nothing you can say is going to appease him at this point. The best you can offer is: "I'm sorry you feel that way coach; it was never my intent to demoralize or embarrass your team."
Leave it at that. If you go on to tell him what he should do (work on fundamentals, keep working hard etc.) he will probably perceive that as criticism of his team and you will only be adding more fuel to his fire.
Now, catcher09 (see above) has a point. How did your players and fans behave during the game? I'm not suggesting that they misbehaved but you, as the coach, have to make sure that things are kept in check from a sportsmanship perspective. It's one thing to be winning big. It's quite another when a team is rubbing salt in the wound. But only you can answer that.
Your opponent is learning (hopefully) a lesson about baseball and life. That things aren't always going to go his way. How he deals with that adversity is up to him. At some point he'll realize that it's not the other guy that is the cause of his situation. But it is something that HE needs to work on or correct.
Your situation is not uncommon.
The fact that teams are put together so that a coach's son can play all the time happens everywhere. Unfortunately, many of these teams don't function very well. Doubtless, your team is not the only one that defeated this other team by a lopsided score. The coach of that team is frustrated and embarrassed.
When he accused you of running up the score, even after you stopped taking advantage on the base paths and so forth, he's only lashing out because he doesn't know what else to do. Nothing you can say is going to appease him at this point. The best you can offer is: "I'm sorry you feel that way coach; it was never my intent to demoralize or embarrass your team."
Leave it at that. If you go on to tell him what he should do (work on fundamentals, keep working hard etc.) he will probably perceive that as criticism of his team and you will only be adding more fuel to his fire.
Now, catcher09 (see above) has a point. How did your players and fans behave during the game? I'm not suggesting that they misbehaved but you, as the coach, have to make sure that things are kept in check from a sportsmanship perspective. It's one thing to be winning big. It's quite another when a team is rubbing salt in the wound. But only you can answer that.
Your opponent is learning (hopefully) a lesson about baseball and life. That things aren't always going to go his way. How he deals with that adversity is up to him. At some point he'll realize that it's not the other guy that is the cause of his situation. But it is something that HE needs to work on or correct.
First thing-- at 12U I dont think there should be a "slaughter rule"--funny things happen and 10 or 15 run leads can disappear rapidly--especially if the team holding the lead down throttles the game and makes massive subtitutions or plays players out of position
Secondly you cannot ask your kids to "lay down"--this is the chance the subs get to show their stuff--the chance for pitcher who do not pitch much to get needed game time
If the other coach cannot see that the shame on him
When I ran LL we never had the "slaughter rule" --the game went to completion and the lead team was mandated to pitch pitchers who are deep on the chart and allow the 2 inning player the opportunity to get a few more innings in a game setting
From what you state you did all the right things-- don't second guess yourself --you done right Coach
Secondly you cannot ask your kids to "lay down"--this is the chance the subs get to show their stuff--the chance for pitcher who do not pitch much to get needed game time
If the other coach cannot see that the shame on him
When I ran LL we never had the "slaughter rule" --the game went to completion and the lead team was mandated to pitch pitchers who are deep on the chart and allow the 2 inning player the opportunity to get a few more innings in a game setting
From what you state you did all the right things-- don't second guess yourself --you done right Coach
Trhit
Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes it gets you. You lose 2-1 or 22-1. That is a fact. When you lose accept it. If you feel somebody run up the score as they say what goes around comes around.
Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes it gets you. You lose 2-1 or 22-1. That is a fact. When you lose accept it. If you feel somebody run up the score as they say what goes around comes around.
Will
That is fine for the older guys but this is 12u--at that age retribution is not in the picture, at least not for me
That is fine for the older guys but this is 12u--at that age retribution is not in the picture, at least not for me
Trhit
I agree with you. Unfortunately baseball does not have a clock. I have been on both ends of it. I held runners and did not take a base etc etc etc. I have had coaches steal with 8 and 9 run lead and even suiucide squeeze. Every ounce of your being wants you to say something. But you just put it in the back of your head. Maybe they instituted the 10 run rule because of such.
I agree with you. Unfortunately baseball does not have a clock. I have been on both ends of it. I held runners and did not take a base etc etc etc. I have had coaches steal with 8 and 9 run lead and even suiucide squeeze. Every ounce of your being wants you to say something. But you just put it in the back of your head. Maybe they instituted the 10 run rule because of such.
At this age a run rule would be a very poor choice. There never seems to be enough innings for all the kids in the first place. It gives kids and opportunity to play other posistions like pitch etc. It teaches kids to battle to the end and to never give up. It sounds like to me that this coach got into something that he is not talented enough to handle. When I first started in AAU almost all the teams were very good and most areas only had one or two teams. Before I quit coaching AAU it seemed that everyone had a team. Small towns had two and three teams from the same area. The level of the competition was so watered down that some of the teams were like local rec teams in talent. AAU even started a D-2 level. It sounds like to me that you handled it with class coach. I wouldnt worry about it. I have pounded teams and yes I have been pounded. It happens. The first thing I do when I take it on the chin which has only happened a couple of times, I congratulate the other coach and team on a well played game. And when we pound the other team I play it down and tell them that we just had a good day. Win with class and loose with class there is no other way. I wonder about coaches that complain when another team beats them down. Whos fault is it when you are not competitive? The team the won or the team that lost?
BBCoach1978.....
I agree with what somebody else already wrote: you do not need to tell the other coach what he should do at practice, etc.
And for what it is worth, in my opinion, a run rule at any age is a poor choice. Having a run rule is nothing to complain about, I just don't like it in any sport.
I agree with what somebody else already wrote: you do not need to tell the other coach what he should do at practice, etc.
And for what it is worth, in my opinion, a run rule at any age is a poor choice. Having a run rule is nothing to complain about, I just don't like it in any sport.
c1978, a few "telling" observations on your comments
shame on the opposing coach you speak of, his lack of preparation and disregard for the level of the league he committed his kids to play in is a real dis-service to them
keep up the good work with your guys
agree with gratefull about not telling the other coach what to do - -
but DO have one of your kids run a cold drink out to him if ya see him up on the hill taking notes during your practice
very cool, I had guys thanking me yrs later for teaching them to do thatquote:My players look everyone in the eye when they speak
quote:I felt bad after the game - - - the Dad of the one solid player on that team asked me if I will have any openings
shame on the opposing coach you speak of, his lack of preparation and disregard for the level of the league he committed his kids to play in is a real dis-service to them keep up the good work with your guys
agree with gratefull about not telling the other coach what to do - -
but DO have one of your kids run a cold drink out to him if ya see him up on the hill taking notes during your practice
Some of the comments in this thread I find rather interesting.
First of all, don't understand why there was no mercy rule after the fifth inning. These were 12 year olds. Don't ever remember playing a game where the rule was not in force.
Second, who cares whether the dads started their own teams or not. Ok, it was daddy ball, but besides their own sons, they gave a lot of kids a chance to play the game who may not have been able to. Isn't this what youth sports is all about? You are TALKING 12 YEAR OLDS.
Third, BBCoach, though the comments from the other coach may have been uncalled for, I would have left it at that. Think about how you would have felt after that game if the situation was reversed. This was not a "game", this was a hit fest or runs made byerrors. I always found those games to be quite boring actually, even on the college level (which by the way imposes the 10 run rule). You could have given up your at bats, if you really felt that badly about the whole thing. You began your post "Gentleman", but you are getting a mom's point of view.
Fourth, every team needs a good scoring game every once in awhile to boost their confidance. Sometimes you play a team that is out of their league. Sometimes it's a young team playing "up" for a challenge. Maybe their players were not as "elite" as yours, so what?
In the game of baseball, besides the basics, we need to teach our players compassion and humility, win or lose. Just as the other team may have learned a lesson, hope your kids did as well.
First of all, don't understand why there was no mercy rule after the fifth inning. These were 12 year olds. Don't ever remember playing a game where the rule was not in force.
Second, who cares whether the dads started their own teams or not. Ok, it was daddy ball, but besides their own sons, they gave a lot of kids a chance to play the game who may not have been able to. Isn't this what youth sports is all about? You are TALKING 12 YEAR OLDS.
Third, BBCoach, though the comments from the other coach may have been uncalled for, I would have left it at that. Think about how you would have felt after that game if the situation was reversed. This was not a "game", this was a hit fest or runs made byerrors. I always found those games to be quite boring actually, even on the college level (which by the way imposes the 10 run rule). You could have given up your at bats, if you really felt that badly about the whole thing. You began your post "Gentleman", but you are getting a mom's point of view.
Fourth, every team needs a good scoring game every once in awhile to boost their confidance. Sometimes you play a team that is out of their league. Sometimes it's a young team playing "up" for a challenge. Maybe their players were not as "elite" as yours, so what?
In the game of baseball, besides the basics, we need to teach our players compassion and humility, win or lose. Just as the other team may have learned a lesson, hope your kids did as well.
TPM,
Good post. Agree.
Good post. Agree.
The only people who care about this topic are the adults. They are embarassed.
The kids could give a ****. They just got their asses kicked. There next question is.....Can we get ice cream?
Mercy rules are a joke. Some teams are way better than others. BFD. The kids just want to play baseball. They recognize the other team is better. Just let us play. Give me my at bats. Let me pitch. Let me field.
To take innings away from these less talented kids is a disgrace. Innings are exactly what they need to get better.
Grow up parents!!! Let the boys be boys and stop starting arguments.
BTW, there is one thing worse than running up the score. And that is complaining about it.
I hope I beat you 50-0 if I'm better than you and I hope you beat me 50-1 if you're better than me. My kids will play hard every inning and learn something no matter the score.
But don't take the playing time away from my kids.
Someone said boring to watch. Is that why they are out there? Simply to entertain the parents?
That's exactly what you'd believe if you listen to parents who really aren't good baseball people. Which happens to be the majority.... Which is why mercy rules and running up the score complaints get merit and become rules.....because of no good, whining, embarassed parents who don't understand that innings is what their son needs unless he wants to play s****r.
Mercy rule, time limits and safety rules. Parents interfering with baseball.
ADDITION:
I'm the 12th man off the bench in a basketball game. I practice everyday and do my best to be the best I can be. I get in the game in the 4th quarter of a blow out game. Other team up by 30 points. They go to a running clock to get the game over quicker. What should be 5-6 minutes of playing time is the equivalent of 1-2.
Thanks for the reward. I practice everyday just like the rest. No one really cares about me.
The kids could give a ****. They just got their asses kicked. There next question is.....Can we get ice cream?
Mercy rules are a joke. Some teams are way better than others. BFD. The kids just want to play baseball. They recognize the other team is better. Just let us play. Give me my at bats. Let me pitch. Let me field.
To take innings away from these less talented kids is a disgrace. Innings are exactly what they need to get better.
Grow up parents!!! Let the boys be boys and stop starting arguments.
BTW, there is one thing worse than running up the score. And that is complaining about it.
I hope I beat you 50-0 if I'm better than you and I hope you beat me 50-1 if you're better than me. My kids will play hard every inning and learn something no matter the score.
But don't take the playing time away from my kids.
Someone said boring to watch. Is that why they are out there? Simply to entertain the parents?
That's exactly what you'd believe if you listen to parents who really aren't good baseball people. Which happens to be the majority.... Which is why mercy rules and running up the score complaints get merit and become rules.....because of no good, whining, embarassed parents who don't understand that innings is what their son needs unless he wants to play s****r.
Mercy rule, time limits and safety rules. Parents interfering with baseball.
ADDITION:
I'm the 12th man off the bench in a basketball game. I practice everyday and do my best to be the best I can be. I get in the game in the 4th quarter of a blow out game. Other team up by 30 points. They go to a running clock to get the game over quicker. What should be 5-6 minutes of playing time is the equivalent of 1-2.
Thanks for the reward. I practice everyday just like the rest. No one really cares about me.
Does the above sound like a Teacherman reply? 
At this age kids need to play. Cutting games short and reducing playing time doesn't help anyone. The kids get over the lopsided scores much more easily than the parents. In fact, I would venture that kids are more embarrassed by a mercy rule game than a 30-2 game.
A lot can happen in six innings. A good defensive play made by the losing team in a late inning might be just the boost they need. Ask any kid if he wants to be mercy-ruled or if he'd like to continue and I'd bet he'd want to continue, regardless of the score. TPM, remember back and I know what your boy would have said. Play on!!
They need to play the game. JMO.
A lot can happen in six innings. A good defensive play made by the losing team in a late inning might be just the boost they need. Ask any kid if he wants to be mercy-ruled or if he'd like to continue and I'd bet he'd want to continue, regardless of the score. TPM, remember back and I know what your boy would have said. Play on!!
They need to play the game. JMO.
I never understood the mercy rule. Is it just baseball or do other youth sports use a mercy rule?
Mercy rule = sure its a longshot that we comeback and win so lets not even try..
Mercy rule = sure its a longshot that we comeback and win so lets not even try..
Callaway,
Since you brought it up, what my boy would say (and still) would be , "Mom and Dad, I felt really bad for the other team, especially watching the pitcher struggling out there". But that is the way he is, doesn't make it right.
Mine thrives and lives for the games that are close, tied, extra innings or won by walk off runs. Enjoys the game much better, from a pitchers point of view, when he knows the opposing team can hit him or the opposing pitcher is just as good as he is. If he wins, he knows he has accomplished something, if not, he has to make adjustments. If you don't teach your kids that, are they going to be shocked when they come up gainst other players in teh country at showcases and tournaments.
Last year in HS my son had to start against a new High School, no seniors mostly all freshman and sophomores. He had no choice, that is the way it came up in the rotation. He fed them meatballs so they could get on base and his team could field the plays and get them out. It was just a game, no big deal that they won. But when he had to pitch against someone like Bighit's son, he LOVED it, and they had some pretty close ones and I know little Eric loved it also.
Come on guys, how many games have your sons played where they actually 10 run ruled a team..at 12?
If a team keeps beating the other teams like that, play up, play against competition. Or if you keep losing like that, either join another league or mix your players and play down.
For those of you with younger ones, you might understand someday when the college recruiter comes knocking or not knocking on the door.
Since you brought it up, what my boy would say (and still) would be , "Mom and Dad, I felt really bad for the other team, especially watching the pitcher struggling out there". But that is the way he is, doesn't make it right.
Mine thrives and lives for the games that are close, tied, extra innings or won by walk off runs. Enjoys the game much better, from a pitchers point of view, when he knows the opposing team can hit him or the opposing pitcher is just as good as he is. If he wins, he knows he has accomplished something, if not, he has to make adjustments. If you don't teach your kids that, are they going to be shocked when they come up gainst other players in teh country at showcases and tournaments.
Last year in HS my son had to start against a new High School, no seniors mostly all freshman and sophomores. He had no choice, that is the way it came up in the rotation. He fed them meatballs so they could get on base and his team could field the plays and get them out. It was just a game, no big deal that they won. But when he had to pitch against someone like Bighit's son, he LOVED it, and they had some pretty close ones and I know little Eric loved it also.
Come on guys, how many games have your sons played where they actually 10 run ruled a team..at 12?
If a team keeps beating the other teams like that, play up, play against competition. Or if you keep losing like that, either join another league or mix your players and play down.
For those of you with younger ones, you might understand someday when the college recruiter comes knocking or not knocking on the door.
Sorry, I've seen mismatches in local tournaments where the mercy rule did just what the name implies. We had a team enter one of our local tournaments that was a select 14yo team while the other teams were a weak 13yo team, an average 13yo team (us) and one weak 14yo all-star team. The select team just crushed the other teams. They were good and they were well coached and they kept playing baseball. They didn't put on airs or anything else. The mercy rule applied in every one of their games.
Some of our parents were annoyed that they kept running but I figure that you just play the game. We try to stop running and play station to station when things get out of hand but I don't think that keeps the score down much at all so I don't worry when the other team keeps running. As it turned out our kids were down after being crushed by the 14yo select team and didn't play well against the 14yo all-star team in our next game. We were beaten, though not mercied and that 14yo all-star team didn't show any class.
Everyone ends up entering tournaments where it turns out there isn't any real competition at some point or another so you can't blame teams for entering tournaments just because they are better than the other teams. The stronger teams have problems finding strong tournaments without a lot of travel sometimes. Such is life.
It is nice to note the teams with class. We took a "B" team into the Pony13 tournament and did quite well. In a warm-up tournament we played a good team from West Hills quite close in the finals. We ran into them again in the semifinals of the Pony 13 district/section tournament with the winner going to region. Unfortunately they beat us pretty handily this time in what turned out to be a mercy (probably my fault for not using the right pitchers). However, the parents, players and coaches handled the whole thing with a lot of class.
Some of our parents were annoyed that they kept running but I figure that you just play the game. We try to stop running and play station to station when things get out of hand but I don't think that keeps the score down much at all so I don't worry when the other team keeps running. As it turned out our kids were down after being crushed by the 14yo select team and didn't play well against the 14yo all-star team in our next game. We were beaten, though not mercied and that 14yo all-star team didn't show any class.
Everyone ends up entering tournaments where it turns out there isn't any real competition at some point or another so you can't blame teams for entering tournaments just because they are better than the other teams. The stronger teams have problems finding strong tournaments without a lot of travel sometimes. Such is life.
It is nice to note the teams with class. We took a "B" team into the Pony13 tournament and did quite well. In a warm-up tournament we played a good team from West Hills quite close in the finals. We ran into them again in the semifinals of the Pony 13 district/section tournament with the winner going to region. Unfortunately they beat us pretty handily this time in what turned out to be a mercy (probably my fault for not using the right pitchers). However, the parents, players and coaches handled the whole thing with a lot of class.
TPM
I was referring to what your son might have said if he were on the losing side (Play on!), not the winning side. But knowing your son, he was probably rarely on the losing side even as a youngster.
And I would agree that the best games are those that you described. My point was more about the vast numbers of rec players that play on a clock with huge rosters that get 1 or maybe 2 AB's a game. To shorten those games is simply unfair to the boys at the bottom of the order. I have seen games where teams were 10-runned after 4 innings and some of the kids never even got to bat. It happens far more frequently then you might expect in rec ball.
When I coached rec this past season, I put the brakes on if it looked like we were going to 10-run a team after 4 innings because I wanted their players and mine to have the opportunity to play 6 innings. The 10-run rule hurts both team's players. JMO.
I was referring to what your son might have said if he were on the losing side (Play on!), not the winning side. But knowing your son, he was probably rarely on the losing side even as a youngster.
And I would agree that the best games are those that you described. My point was more about the vast numbers of rec players that play on a clock with huge rosters that get 1 or maybe 2 AB's a game. To shorten those games is simply unfair to the boys at the bottom of the order. I have seen games where teams were 10-runned after 4 innings and some of the kids never even got to bat. It happens far more frequently then you might expect in rec ball.
When I coached rec this past season, I put the brakes on if it looked like we were going to 10-run a team after 4 innings because I wanted their players and mine to have the opportunity to play 6 innings. The 10-run rule hurts both team's players. JMO.
Callaway,
Know you didn't mean anything, no apologies needed.For many HS years my son had more losses than wins. He was the one as a sophomore or junior who had to go up against the seniors. In the long run, those losses were noticed more than his wins.
Our travel team (when my son was 12) was formed because our boys were so good, they got tired of winning every game. So we broke from the local rec league and went to travel ball. The original post gave me the impression the team was so much better than the other, so are you all going to tell me that ONE missed at bat would make a difference? For who, the winners or losers?
On a brighter note, are we going to split this year or is Clemson going to take all 4?
Know you didn't mean anything, no apologies needed.For many HS years my son had more losses than wins. He was the one as a sophomore or junior who had to go up against the seniors. In the long run, those losses were noticed more than his wins.
Our travel team (when my son was 12) was formed because our boys were so good, they got tired of winning every game. So we broke from the local rec league and went to travel ball. The original post gave me the impression the team was so much better than the other, so are you all going to tell me that ONE missed at bat would make a difference? For who, the winners or losers?
On a brighter note, are we going to split this year or is Clemson going to take all 4?
I think as long as you truly were not trying to showboat or rub it in, you don't have a thing to be sorry for. Things like this are sometimes just unavoidable.
Backdash,
HS here in CO has a mercy rule for football. Once you are up (or down) by 45 points they have a running clock.
Word is they are trying to do the same thing in basketball (some states already have it). Running clock after a X point lead. It doesn't play out very often in boys BB, but there have been some girls BB scores this past season of 95-6, 82-10, etc...
Wrestling. Once you are up by X number of points it becomes a Major decision and the match is over.
HS here in CO has a mercy rule for football. Once you are up (or down) by 45 points they have a running clock.
Word is they are trying to do the same thing in basketball (some states already have it). Running clock after a X point lead. It doesn't play out very often in boys BB, but there have been some girls BB scores this past season of 95-6, 82-10, etc...
Wrestling. Once you are up by X number of points it becomes a Major decision and the match is over.
