Questions on College Camp

Just my opinion but I would wait until he is a rising junior to do college/showcase camps.  He will get better/bigger/stronger through all of the training and playing he will be doing and college coaches are really focused on their upcoming needs for their roster.  Also, your son will be competing against mostly seniors and to a slightly lesser extent juniors in the camps.  As I said, this is just my opinion and I'm sure others will have a different take.  Good luck.

I think it is a very smart move.  I took my son to his first camp Feb of freshman year, then another the following Summer.  Both were D1 programs and prospect showcases, not camps. Also took him to PG and HF that same year.  Getting him used to that environment is huge.  My opinion sets aside the $ factor which is purely personal.  I told my son he has nothing to lose.  He has good size, so "looking the part" does help if his goal is to be placed on a list of players they will track over time. In any case, the bottom line is my son, still 15, now feels completely comfortable throwing in front of scouts, coaches, radar guns, etc.  Not speaking to his talent or prospects.  No idea if he will get to next level let alone where.  All I know is that he is so at ease and comfortable now in those settings...it is the "norm".   It is because we started so early.  Hope this helps.

Welcome Joe...nice to see another IL guy here (there aren't much and I crave for some IL baseball talk).

 

My opinion...sort of what BucsFan said...it certainly cannot hurt.  If you think he will definitely be doing the main prospect showcases/camps going into his junior/senior year then doing something like this can be good to set expectations.  Get him used to what goes on.  Nothing may come out of this camp at all in terms of recruiting or tracking, but he should get a good evaluation (assuming the camp does one for all players attending).  Tell him to have fun, let loose, and listen/watch EVERYTHING that is going on.

Joes87,

 

We left Chicagoland for greener and warmer pastures years ago.  Hope all is well out in the Western Suburbs!

 

Great question you are asking.  As Seaver noted, for most players, the real recruiting starts later...for most.  But in my experience, once a player is in high school, going to a camp or two to gain experience and an honest third party eval can be very helpful.  The real showcasing for most players (but not all) will start sometime right before or during junior year. 

 

If a kid wants to play ball in college, generally, they will have to showcase.  It's good to know the camp/showcase format, see the skill level of other players, get feedback from third parties, etc.  2012 did this as a rising soph as did 2016 this Fall and scheduled to do at a one day college camp in February. 

 

Once my 2012 really needed to showcase, i.e., for him PG, Headfirst, Stanford, he knew how things operated and felt comfortable in that environment.

 

The recruiting process can take a lot of time and money.  I wouldn't spend wildly now for camps/showcases, but would focus on playing the game and getting bigger, faster, stronger and more skillful, taking the independent feedback from the camp as one benchmark of your player at a very early point in time.

 

BTW, the recruiting timeline on this site is an outstanding guideline which we generally followed for 2012 and are doing so again for 2016.

 

Good luck!

Don't think this will be a popular thought, but here goes...

 

I really don't understand the need to 'gain experience' or 'get comfortable' with showcases or camps?  As if its some type of training exercise?

 

I guess if you have tons of money and can afford to pay for a bunch of dress rehearsals...then go ahead.  But I just don't see the need to practice these things.  Practice with a good travel team and he won't need any 'getting used too' sparkling venues.

Everyone is different.  Some need experience in a setting.  Some don't.  Some need practice, some don't. 

 

One of my sons can deliver an off the cuff speech, no problem, in front of a hundred people.  The other needs to practice in front of a mirror a thousand times, see the setting in person, etc.

 

Practicing with a good travel team is different than the pro style workout aspects of a typical camp or showcase.  Not sure I get the "sparkling venues" comment.

 

The pressure in the pro style workout are different than a travel team practice or even a real game, the specifics of what you're required to do (e.g., timed 60 yard dash, 4-5 ground balls or fly balls with velocities measured, testing pop times, etc.) is different than a practice or game.  Not sure I understand why doing this before it really matters is bad or unnecessary...perhaps it is for you or your players'...that's fine by me.

 

We went to a couple camps at colleges that were on our initial lists for our 2012 when he was a Soph.  We're doing that again for our 2016 in February.  One day camp, $95, includes pro style workout and 2 games.  He'll get experience (which sounds like it's not interesting to you but it is to him and us) and he'll get an independent eval from college coaches, not my subjective feedback.  And we see a college campus that we've never been to before.

My son is a junior and just got his first real taste of contact with a coach of a D1 this past December after attending a showcase.  He's been to several....some put on by a recruiting organization that puts their info on their website and sends it to coaches...and also a few put on by individual schools.  I can tell you that after the first one or two he became much more comfortable with the process and performed better each time.  We had a kid on our summer team who I would put as one of the top 2015 catcher's I've seen.  He attended his first showcase last spring (myself and my son were also there). I know him fairly well and could tell he was nervous...he was asking my son all kinds of questions and just never really calmed down.  He did absolutely awful....in fact while they were clocking his POP times he never came close to getting a ball to the 2nd baseman...in 8 throws....heck a couple were 15 feet over his head.  Fast forward to last weekend...same catcher, now at his 3rd showcase....POP times 2.01-2.10 and nailed the 2nd baseman right on the glove with every throw.  Big difference...and I think it was all because of him being more comfortable with the way the showcase works.  I wouldn't hesitate to take a freshman...not because I think it would get him on the radar or get him an offer...but because it will help him in the long run when it comes times to attend a camp/showcase where he may have the chance to really impress someone important

I can understand this statement but for some it may be needed. Ill use our situation as an example. We live on Kauai, pretty much as far west as you can get in the USA, there are no travel teams here on kauai  and for the most part everyone here has known each other for a long time. The competition is what it is, maybe every so often someone new make burst onto the scene but for the most part my son has been playing against the same kids for 9 years and i have to take whatever feedback we get from the coaches with a grain of salt (as fate has it though my neighbors are the parents of a MLB scout, was here visiting them and saw / heard my son in my homemade cage and liked what he saw). small world really pumped up my son.

 

That all being said for us going to Headfirst and Stanford this year is very important in his development if for no other reason than to see other players and their skill levels (not to mention the seminars i am looking forward to). Am i looking forward to the 7k bill for all this?, Hell no but where we chose to live does have its consequences. I wish that he had other opportunities to "try out" the whole showcase things but we simply do not have the options. So i am all for going to a showcase if the finances make it viable but also understand the argument against them..

Two-more cents...........For "JustBaseball" Can't see how it can hurt?

 

"I really don't understand the need to 'gain experience' or 'get comfortable' with showcases or camps?  As if its some type of training exercise?

 

I guess if you have tons of money and can afford to pay for a bunch of dress rehearsals...then go ahead.  But I just don't see the need to practice these things.  Practice with a good travel team and he won't need any 'getting used too' sparkling venues."  --JustBaseball Post Above

 

The "pro style workout" is vital at all levels of baseball.  From early travel all the way up to MLB.  It is a baseline indicator.  The routine offers no surprises for player as far as what is being asked.  It is universal.  It is an art form and skill set within baseball itself .  And is an activity (the PSW: 4-5 grounders, 60 yard dash, pop times, 6-hacks in batter's box, all back to back, etc.) that would be wise to practice.  As a former actor, I see it as your audition monologue.  And obviously, like an actor's monologue, would be wise to rehearse as often as possible. 

 

When applying the baseball ethos, "control what you can control," the PSW is one of those rare things you have a lot of control over.  If I just paid $100 for an exposure/showcase camp at a college, you can be darn well sure ol' sonny-boy will practice the PSW before he goes.  Just "winging it" won't cut it!

 

As far as money goes?  It depends on the venue.  Many showcases can be local for small D-1 schools.  Maybe $100-$125 for a 6-hour day?  Math tutors charge more than that for 6-hours of tutoring.  If done properly the experience, especially for a 2017, can be well worth it.  Exposure to showcases at a young age (grades 8-10) will be humbling but is most important for the player to learn the routines, see how they match up against peers, hear criticism from objective parties.  As a HS coach I see too many players who get a "wake up call" evaluation from a showcase as a Jr. or worse summer before Senior year and by then it is a little too late to start working on weaknesses.  A blistering eval as a frosh leaves plenty of time for player to get his stuff together and improve where he needs improving.

 

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

 

KauaiDad - I can see your point in your situation.

 

I appreciate the other comments too.  I am not here to debate you, but just wanted to take a little chance by expressing a different opinion.  Some more random thoughts related to this....

• Do kids display nervousness as freshmen because they're significantly outsized with the upperclassmen?  (Big difference between a 15-year old and a 17-year old...boys-to-men ). Are they really just a little overwhelmed?  Is there a chance you're misinterpreting the source of their anxiety?   Are you mistaking their shedding of nervousness with just plain old maturity?  I don't know...something to think about though.
• "Performance improved."  Interesting comment, but what do you define as "performance?"  Pop time?  Well, I'd expect that to improve with age, as well as accuracy of throws...especially if player was overexerting to try and make up for being the youngest guy out there.  Number of hits?  Don't think the scouts are really looking at that.  Pitching velocity?  Our older son was at about 80 mph as a 14-year old freshman...93 mph as a senior.  Did his "performance" improve?  Or his maturity?  What 'good' woulda come out of doing a showcase as an 5 ft. 9 in., 80 mph/14-year old freshman?  I dunno...he was one of the best in our area for his age, but so what at that age?
• 2 sons who play(ed) in the Pac12.  Older was a big projectable RHP 'national recruit.' Younger one was not.  Each attended 2 showcases...starting  early in junior year.  No practice showcases for either, but great travel teams playing against top flight competition.  Were they nervous first time?  Yep.  Did it affect their performance?  Probably, but depends on what you mean by "performance" (see above).  Did it affect their evaluation?  Nope, don't think so.

Keep in mind that I'm not talking about the Bryce Harpers out there (if there are any).  Talking about your kids and mine.  Good ballplayers who might(?) develop, or might not?

 

"Exposure, exposure, exposure" is often preached on here.  I am certainly not against it.  But remember, sometimes "exposure" can turn out to be "exposed"...which is, IMO, not a good thing to do at such a young age where the story isn't even near complete.

 

Just some thoughts that are a little different.  Nothing more.

Good point at end JustBaseball.  You clearly have a lot more experience than this baseball dad at the showcase circuit.  Key word is "exposure" as you point out.  Question is, exposure of player TO the process at a young age, OR exposure of player BY the process at an older age?  That, to me, is the question.

 

Thanks for your posts.  And OP. 

justbaseball.....all good points.   I guess my thought on it would be this....showcases are about finding the top talent....not about knocking the less talented.  I can assure you if the 2017 kid goes to a showcase and throws 70 and bobbles every grounder hit to him that the coaches/scouts in attendance won't put him on the "bad kid" list.   They just won't put him on any list. To the coaches, it's like he was never there...but the experience is bound to help him for the next one.  He'll show up at the next one with one showcase experience under his belt and he'll be the only one who knows about it.  Coaches won't remember his performance at the first showcase if he shows up for the 2nd one as a sophomore and throws 82, fields every ball cleanly and hits like Bryce Harper. Nothing hurt by heading to one at a young age just to get a feel for it...

All thank you so much for your feedback.  I am now glad we decided to do this camp.  Knowing my son he shows pretty decent and things don't seem to rattle him but I assume there is a level of nervousness inside him.  I want for him to get comfortable at these type of workouts before his Junior year.  

 

Right now he is a better then average player but knowing youth development he is moving into a period where others will start catching up.  Size wise he is 6'4" 165 and pretty much no fat.  That comes from playing football and basketball in addition to baseball.  Last year (his first on the big field) his OBP was around 800 and he batting average was 450 or so.  As a 14U (last year) he put 10 balls over the fence a majority them came in college and minor league stadiums.  His fastball is flirting with 80 MPH, sometimes over sometimes under.  He is getting good with his placement.  Right now he is struggling with his change up and curve but  he has traditionally been in control of those as well.  He is getting comfortable with a new some new grips introduced to him this off season from his pitching coach.  I am hoping his development keeps up but am also a realist that he needs to stick with it and work hard to keep playing past HS.

Justbaseball:  I just sent you PM.  Thx!

The camps expect the young ones to show up-it helps w raising money. I would wait another yr. he seems to be on right track w getting lessons from local academy, and playing for good HS team.

My sons first showcase was w PG(after soph yr)and he did very well, speed helps get u noticed. Then he attended 4-5 camps of schools he was interested in, the other "invites" went into trash. 3 have invited him for visits, one already made pretty good offer(they saw him play in gAme before camp). fourth, (only out if state school) says they r interested, and he did well. His velocity was down in Winter but they said they expected that. 

Your son will improve and you ll be amazed how much better they r in 2 yrs. IMO it's hard to get noticed at camps if your not pitcher, amazing arm as catcher, or hitting bombs. Just not enough time to show your stuff.

 

Freshman year is NOT too early.  Actually, its perfect to get started in camps earlier.  The reasons listed above are legit.  But there are a few more.  Right now showcase ball is watered down.  There are so many opportunities to see talent that the coaches cant be as efficient as they used to be.  More and more coaches are relying on camps to see talent.  Less cost for them.  And, its an opportunity to bring in some $$ for themselves.  The biggest benefit of attending camps early is in building relationships.  My son started attending camps early.  We picked the camps with the most benefit....larger number of schools represented, games played, cost, etc.  We go and have fun and my son tries to gather information.  I know for a fact that one of the biggest D1 programs in the area has recommended my son to a few smaller D1s in the area.  It's the relationship with Coach "Big D1" that is going to get him signed.

Agree with the posters who think it's a good experience. My 2017 sons first college camp was at age 12; he's been to four so far. My opinion is for the younger kids it's purely a fundraiser for the school & I explained that to him before he went to his first one. The experience he's gained has been valuable as he's now much more relaxed in that type of environment; also helped him when time for HS tryout came. So far I've only let him do winter camps; for one they're less expensive and two they are smaller. Also made a point to take him to a different school each time. He's been able to see the campus, facilities, and he really thinks it's cool to meet the coaches. In the next couple of years it'll be time (for us anyway) to think about exposure.

Just took my 2017 to a camp at a D1 (not a showcase) two weeks ago and it was a great experience for him.  He was definitely intimidated by the other kids since almost all were juniors and seniors, but he was really impressed with what he saw, the drills, the campus, etc.   The coach spoke to the kids, very frankly I might add, and he even saw a talented kid get an offer.  I would recommend it.

Lets be clear.  My comments above were NOT directed at sending (or not sending) your kid to a good old fashioned college camp.  At any age...well not in diapers, but I imagine thats coming at some point. 

 

College camps (of any sport) can get kids even more excited about playing ball and thats a good thing IMO.

 

This one comment caught my eye:

Right now showcase ball is watered down.

I agree!  But guess what?  So are showcases and showcase camps.  I recently spent some time talking with a high placed MLB agent.  Some VERY big names in his agency.  Wanna know one thing he told me?  Yup, you guessed it...'showcases are loaded with kids who can't play at high levels nowadays.' 

 

No, no, no...he wasn't talking about the higher level showcases...PG, Area Codes, etc..  He was talking about...among other things...college showcase camps.

 

And I know enough college coaches to know that if they can fill a camp with 20 kids, they're only expecting (or is it "hoping?") that 1 or 2 or 3 will be interesting to them.

 

Relationships?  Hmmmm.  Interesting thought.  Maybe?  I'm not sure I'd wanna pop $200+ on a possible 'relationship' with someone who may or may not be capable or interested in that.  Just me and how I think.

 

You see, in my neighborhood...10 years ago when our older son was playing ball...there was 1...ONE...player in travel ball.  Him.  Today, for each age group, there are upwards of 40.  Are there suddenly 40 kids now progressing towards college and pro baseball from our area?  Nope, but there are now suddenly 40 sets of parents running around to every showcase, college camp and fly-by-night travel team...believing if they just get little "Johnny" some more "practice" and exposure, they can build a future college/pro player.

 

My view?  They'll probably succeed at a higher rate than our older son's age group.  Instead of 1 future college/pro player, maybe they'll get 2...or 3.  But they won't get 10, 20, 30 or 40.

 

All I'm saying is think about this stuff a little bit.  Maybe your bank account is big enough that it doesn't matter...or that it IS your family investment (rather than say a tutor for math) and just leave it alone 'justbaseball.'  Ok, fair enough. 

 

But also think about the pressures you may(?) be adding to your 14/15-year old son before its time to add any pressure at all.  What if it doesn't work out?  Will your son feel like he let you down?  Probably not.  But still, think about it just a little bit.

Our son attended a few instructional camps at age 10-12, but it was not to get noticed by a college coach. It was for the help, and to learn from what they were teaching. Sorry, but IMO some parents like the bragging rights that goes w their son attending college showcases at age 14. They might even think/say little Johnny got an "invite" 

to show up. 

Every family makes their own decision, and if you have money to spend and you don't think it can help more in another area(lessons, equipment) than go.  No matter how many they attend they will be a little nervous at older ages too. That's when they know they r really being looked at. 

Agree w "just baseball" in that we probably all know a kid who has attended 10 plus camps w no results to show for it. Showcases have their place but they do not always have the outcome parents Expect.

Camps are money makers for the college program, no doubt, but I think the kid gains from it as well - it's not just a one way street.  In our situation, it was a camp and not a showcase so there were no expectations. It was also a chance to get out for the first time in a couple of months and get some work in, see a campus we hadn't seen before and explore another part of the country.  Win-Win for us.

Is it worth it for a Freshman (& younger)? Depends on your expectations. I agree with an earlier poster unless a Freshman is a monster the exposure notion is a waste of time & money. If you're looking to get experience & reps; well worthwhile. My son has also learned some different ways of doing things which has also been beneficial. I do believe the pro style workouts and performing for college coaches is also a good experience. May be a fundraiser for the schools but they're also providing a service I've been willing to pay for once per year. As far as an honest assessment of my kids abilities; have never been to a camp where it's been promised & never asked (or expected it). Son has got some encouragement on the field. My opinion based on four so far is well worthwhile.

Are the coaches running the camp or is someone doing it for them?  Season begins mid February.   Cant see coaches organizing camp a week before the season begins.  Just a thought.

My son did 4 camps, Stanford which is really more than a camp it is a unique "event" IMO. One other at a program he was being heavily recruited at, they had come to see him play and he had many conversations with the recruiting coach,  two others that he was also being recruited at and he told them he could not make stay for the whole event; they will prorate the cost (at least they did a few years ago) since they can't let you in for free by NCAA rules. You can come in show your wares and leave, and if they are serious about you they will allow it IMO. 

 

 

IMO if you need an assessment of you player get it from a scout.Go read the  read the "connected thread" by JP. 

My 2015 junior just started this past December to attend camps.  He has been to one showcase and some of the school’s camp.  The school’s camp seems to be a better fit for him for a couple of reasons. First he gets evaluated by the entire coaching staff.  Each coach can assess his skills as opposed to relying on once coach and then probably being invited to the camp anyway for final eval. Secondly it gives the STUDENT-athlete the chance to see the school, facilities and town/city. Many times a player will go to a school and come to find out they are very unhappy for a variety of reasons. It is probably better to know up front.

What has worked for my 2015 is qualifying the school’s first.   Just like players cast a wide net for opportunity, each school will cast a wide net.  Players get many camp invites to schools they will never attend due to academics and athletics reasons.   MY 2015 sends out a 2:24 video displaying skills and hitting.  Follows up with an email giving stats as well as inviting them to call his summer coach and high school coach.  If they are truly interested they will follow through with his request. If not then you know they just want the money.

Based on our experience the video has produced 5 visits and 2 schools that he is on their short list of potential players for that position.  The others still have contacted him just for follow up. For my 2015 the camps give him a variety of evaluation.  Every school is looking for something different in a player. Yes going to each camp takes a considerable amount of $$ over a showcase but for us it has been more productive.

Just my 2 cents. 

Excellent thread.  Diverse, and very good, opinions.

 

BOF noted getting a scout's assessment.  I agree.  College coaches are good too, but we preferred scouts' opinions as the best independent talent evaluators.

 

TPM asked do college coaches really run a camp in February...Yes, surprisingly, they do.  Some D1 coaches, from top conferences, run camps right up to the start of their seasons.  Seems strange, but they do it.

Good point BOF, PO jr did 4 camps, Stanford and the 3 schools that were recruiting him. He only did full camp at one and that was Stanford. All the rest were prorated, show up, do your thing and move on.

 

I do think that doing a top notch showcase helps get you that third party eval.