I see Godwin lost 1-0 to Benedictine...Godwins pitcher threw a completye game 2 hitter striking out 17..Godwin had 3 hits and there were 4 benedictine errors
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Zach Joseph, Senior at Benedictine, pitched a great game!
Every year people say to not read too much into Spring break games-- hard to guage comparisons due to 4 games in 2-3 days, pitching matchups, etc-- but Benedictine and StC can play with anyone.
Both beat Godwin AND Lee Davis yesterday. StC scored four in the 7th to overcome an 8-0 deficit and beat Godwin 9-8.
Last year these two finished 1-2 in State privates DI. Played twice-- State championship game and two weeks before when Campbell Henkel (VMI) pitched a perfect game as StC won 3-0..
Make plans to see this year's regular season matchup at RF&P Park next Sat. nite (April 30 700PM)
Both beat Godwin AND Lee Davis yesterday. StC scored four in the 7th to overcome an 8-0 deficit and beat Godwin 9-8.
Last year these two finished 1-2 in State privates DI. Played twice-- State championship game and two weeks before when Campbell Henkel (VMI) pitched a perfect game as StC won 3-0..
Make plans to see this year's regular season matchup at RF&P Park next Sat. nite (April 30 700PM)
sounds like tjhose two private schools arent to far off from the public schools. I think one thjing that holds them back is they just dont see enough good competition week in and week out. Lees striking out 17 kids on the best private school kind of puts it in perspective.
some truth to that. although these privates will play 3-4 games a week and try to play other top teams from around the state. (Stc has already played Greenbrier and Cape Henry-- still have St Albans, where Danny Hultzen played). privates are not limited to 18 games (i think) like publics and these two played 27-28 games last year. Clearly some privates can't play at that level but if talking schedules, they don't play MWGS, TJ, JM twice a year either.
Please do not diminsh Lee's accomplishment just because he pitched against a private school. Benedictine and StC have good hitters throughout their line-ups.
not diminishing Matts accomplishment...in fact I am the one who pointed it out in the first place. I am trying to add persepcetive to how tje private schools stack up to the public schools...its really just a numbers game. There are 200 kids at Benedictine for example and probably 1,000 males at the Godwin type schools. Of the entire populationn only a select few can afford to send their kids to a private school....all that being said of course the bigger schools will have better teams. Benedictine beat an above average Godwin team and gave Manchester a good game this year...solid wins but its still not time to declare them equal.
with all due respect, hsbaseball, --that is precisely the arguement that needs to be made- year in, year out, RTD and posts here and other places, diminish the privates. your points about student numbers are well taken. But Benedictine and StC particularly can play with the best-- not saying they are the best or that all privates are on par, but they deserve more recognition than they get. For instance, this is the fourth year they have both played in this particular invitational. StC has gone 3-1,3-1,2-2,2-2 and now is 2-0 this year with wins over the RTD #4 and #7 ranked teams (at this moment). Benedictine went 3-1 last year.
MaxPreps does a RPI-like comparison of all results nationwide (granted scores have to be turned in, but last year by year end most of higher ranked state schools did so). StC was 19th in the state (all schools, public, private, all divisions). benedictine was 39th. That would have ranked them 6th and 9th in Metro Richmond (btw Powhatan-a AA school with a great program would have been 7th). RTD had StC 9th in final poll and Benedictine and Powhatan not mentioned.
Not saying they are the "best", but until they are able play more games against publics, this will just be fodder for these type of discussions.
Virginia is blessed with good baseball, public and private--just get tired of hearing when the better privates have good win, that this or that was the reason.
Finally, benedictine has two outstanding pitchers, Andrew Wood going to VMI and Zack Joseph (All-Metro last year and WP against Lees)and OF Colton Konvicka is being recruited. StC has had two VISAA player of year in past three years, both playing D1 in Virgina and two pro signees last year (Austin Wates, StC 2007, , VaTech, 3rd round Houston Astros and Kurt Fleming, StC 2010, 8th round A-Braves). Don't leave out Russell Wilson, Collegiate 2007, NCState football fame, now playing for Astros farm). Trinity Episcopal (down some this year but a top 8 private the last three years) has five players on D1 rosters right now- two at VMI, one an OF at UVA, a pitcher at VCU and another at Wingate Univ in NC
Lots of publics would like to claim that.
MaxPreps does a RPI-like comparison of all results nationwide (granted scores have to be turned in, but last year by year end most of higher ranked state schools did so). StC was 19th in the state (all schools, public, private, all divisions). benedictine was 39th. That would have ranked them 6th and 9th in Metro Richmond (btw Powhatan-a AA school with a great program would have been 7th). RTD had StC 9th in final poll and Benedictine and Powhatan not mentioned.
Not saying they are the "best", but until they are able play more games against publics, this will just be fodder for these type of discussions.
Virginia is blessed with good baseball, public and private--just get tired of hearing when the better privates have good win, that this or that was the reason.
Finally, benedictine has two outstanding pitchers, Andrew Wood going to VMI and Zack Joseph (All-Metro last year and WP against Lees)and OF Colton Konvicka is being recruited. StC has had two VISAA player of year in past three years, both playing D1 in Virgina and two pro signees last year (Austin Wates, StC 2007, , VaTech, 3rd round Houston Astros and Kurt Fleming, StC 2010, 8th round A-Braves). Don't leave out Russell Wilson, Collegiate 2007, NCState football fame, now playing for Astros farm). Trinity Episcopal (down some this year but a top 8 private the last three years) has five players on D1 rosters right now- two at VMI, one an OF at UVA, a pitcher at VCU and another at Wingate Univ in NC
Lots of publics would like to claim that.
Again...not taking anythng away from any of them...there are certainly indivdual players who have been very successful - Russell Wilson at Collegiate - several successful baseball players as well.
Its just not comparing apples and oranges. I dont want to hurt any feelings but as good as Collegiatehas been at football last few years I do not think they could stay on the field with the large public schools like LC Bird, Meadwbrook, Thoms Dale, Highland Springs, or Varina.
On the basebll side may not like it but this is Sprng Break baseball..."the #4 team" hasnt thrown its best pitcher all week - Again - there have been alot of good players come out of private schools in this area and there are some now. Not taking anything away from anything they do - the playing field is just not level...in fact I would say privates (although some cost as much as a four year school and keep most families from going there) may even have an advantage in putting teams togeher from all over the area instead of being required to operate within
certain boundaries like public schools do. Up North the situaion is reversed - the Privtes dominate - but this isnt up North and as long as the public schools provide a decent education it never will be.
I know a longstanding argument has been privates deserve to be ranked in the same poll and so on but its just not the same thing... kind of like the Powhatan argument that has won AA Championship in football but isnt inclued in the poll during football season
No disrespect is intended
Its just not comparing apples and oranges. I dont want to hurt any feelings but as good as Collegiatehas been at football last few years I do not think they could stay on the field with the large public schools like LC Bird, Meadwbrook, Thoms Dale, Highland Springs, or Varina.
On the basebll side may not like it but this is Sprng Break baseball..."the #4 team" hasnt thrown its best pitcher all week - Again - there have been alot of good players come out of private schools in this area and there are some now. Not taking anything away from anything they do - the playing field is just not level...in fact I would say privates (although some cost as much as a four year school and keep most families from going there) may even have an advantage in putting teams togeher from all over the area instead of being required to operate within
certain boundaries like public schools do. Up North the situaion is reversed - the Privtes dominate - but this isnt up North and as long as the public schools provide a decent education it never will be.
I know a longstanding argument has been privates deserve to be ranked in the same poll and so on but its just not the same thing... kind of like the Powhatan argument that has won AA Championship in football but isnt inclued in the poll during football season
No disrespect is intended
Tell Godwin this is Spring Break baseball- they threw their best two pitchers in Lees and Garrett yesterday. And they lost both games. Hell itlooks like they pulled Garrett out and put him back in again. St Chris sent 4 guys to college baseball rosters last year and another to the 8th round of the draft. Benedictine can hang with anyone with Joseph or Woods on the mound, those guys can flat out carve. Steward can flat out play too. They have a pitcher headed to ECU, a CF headed to VMI and unbelieveable soph behind the plate among their riches.
Believe what you will about public vs private but enrollment doesn't matter especially in baseball. You can't live in the East End and choose to send your kid to Deep Run but you can try to get him to the public school who fits him best. And we won't even talk about the recruiting that goes on as well. Think you are good as a junior at Freeman or Godwin but not getting any looks, why don't you head to private school, reclass, and get an extra year of baseball. It happens everywhere, and the private schools can hang with the publics-and they proved it again yesterday.
Believe what you will about public vs private but enrollment doesn't matter especially in baseball. You can't live in the East End and choose to send your kid to Deep Run but you can try to get him to the public school who fits him best. And we won't even talk about the recruiting that goes on as well. Think you are good as a junior at Freeman or Godwin but not getting any looks, why don't you head to private school, reclass, and get an extra year of baseball. It happens everywhere, and the private schools can hang with the publics-and they proved it again yesterday.
only way enollent doesnt matter is ifkid are going there specfically to play a sport...othrwise enrollment is a pretty big deal...that is why VHSL splits schools btween , AA, and AAA...I assume it is also why private schools have three divisions that I assume are based on population of the schools.... someone seems to think it matters and there is an awful lot of data to support it.
Certainly there are individual standouts at any school but bottom line is top to bottom public schools are more competitve in Richmond, VA....even with the advantge the private schools have of assembling players from all over the area.
Again- benedictine beating Godwin was a solid win...certainly not the Godwin of days gone by but a solid win. Bigger story to me was Lees having a break out game and striking out 17 batters.
Certainly there are individual standouts at any school but bottom line is top to bottom public schools are more competitve in Richmond, VA....even with the advantge the private schools have of assembling players from all over the area.
Again- benedictine beating Godwin was a solid win...certainly not the Godwin of days gone by but a solid win. Bigger story to me was Lees having a break out game and striking out 17 batters.
Rebels pulled out a win over Benedictine. Benedictine's outfield looked great today. The center fielder really stood out. The middle infield struggled costing the Cadets several runs. Freeman had significant lead but had to come back from a 10-9 deficit.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by hsbasballfan:
Again...not taking anythng away from any of them...there are certainly indivdual players who have been very successful - Russell Wilson at Collegiate - several successful baseball players as well.
(ANSWER) We may just have to agree that intelligent, respectful gentlemen will disagree on occasion-- but there are more than several. I am not sure there is another school in the area with FIVE seniors from last year on college rosters this year. St C has four (and add Fleming as the fifth).
Its just not comparing apples and oranges. I dont want to hurt any feelings but as good as Collegiatehas been at football last few years I do not think they could stay on the field with the large public schools like LC Bird, Meadwbrook, Thoms Dale, Highland Springs, or Varina.
(ANSWER) This point, I am more apt to agree-- I have said that numbers (school population) matters more in football than other sports. But as to Collegiate--they have played Godwin for last 4-5 years-- look up the last time Godwin won (don't think they have--if so only once).
On the basebll side may not like it but this is Sprng Break baseball..."the #4 team" hasnt thrown its best pitcher all week - Again - there have been alot of good players come out of private schools in this area and there are some now. Not taking anything away from anything they do - the playing field is just not level...in fact I would say privates (although some cost as much as a four year school and keep most families from going there) may even have an advantage in putting teams togeher from all over the area instead of being required to operate within
certain boundaries like public schools do. Up North the situaion is reversed - the Privtes dominate - but this isnt up North and as long as the public schools provide a decent education it never will be.
(ANSWER) Tell Godwin that--lost with their best two pitchers.
Really think this is a discussion for for another forum-- despite costs-- any kid with the grades-- can go to StC and Coll-- financial aid is available.
I know a longstanding argument has been privates deserve to be ranked in the same poll and so on but its just not the same thing... kind of like the Powhatan argument that has won AA Championship in football but isnt inclued in the poll during football season
(ANSWER) RTD continues to rank them-- if they are only going to call it the AAA poll, then they can leave out independant schools and AA's in the readership area.
Bottom line--StC was 3-1, Benedictine was 3-1. Godwin, a perennial power, with good pitchers, was one and three (counting loss to Steward yesterday).
Again...not taking anythng away from any of them...there are certainly indivdual players who have been very successful - Russell Wilson at Collegiate - several successful baseball players as well.
(ANSWER) We may just have to agree that intelligent, respectful gentlemen will disagree on occasion-- but there are more than several. I am not sure there is another school in the area with FIVE seniors from last year on college rosters this year. St C has four (and add Fleming as the fifth).
Its just not comparing apples and oranges. I dont want to hurt any feelings but as good as Collegiatehas been at football last few years I do not think they could stay on the field with the large public schools like LC Bird, Meadwbrook, Thoms Dale, Highland Springs, or Varina.
(ANSWER) This point, I am more apt to agree-- I have said that numbers (school population) matters more in football than other sports. But as to Collegiate--they have played Godwin for last 4-5 years-- look up the last time Godwin won (don't think they have--if so only once).
On the basebll side may not like it but this is Sprng Break baseball..."the #4 team" hasnt thrown its best pitcher all week - Again - there have been alot of good players come out of private schools in this area and there are some now. Not taking anything away from anything they do - the playing field is just not level...in fact I would say privates (although some cost as much as a four year school and keep most families from going there) may even have an advantage in putting teams togeher from all over the area instead of being required to operate within
certain boundaries like public schools do. Up North the situaion is reversed - the Privtes dominate - but this isnt up North and as long as the public schools provide a decent education it never will be.
(ANSWER) Tell Godwin that--lost with their best two pitchers.
Really think this is a discussion for for another forum-- despite costs-- any kid with the grades-- can go to StC and Coll-- financial aid is available.
I know a longstanding argument has been privates deserve to be ranked in the same poll and so on but its just not the same thing... kind of like the Powhatan argument that has won AA Championship in football but isnt inclued in the poll during football season
(ANSWER) RTD continues to rank them-- if they are only going to call it the AAA poll, then they can leave out independant schools and AA's in the readership area.
Bottom line--StC was 3-1, Benedictine was 3-1. Godwin, a perennial power, with good pitchers, was one and three (counting loss to Steward yesterday).
I do not think that playing on a "power house" team is what it is all about. It is about choosing the best school that fits your child's needs. Educationally and athletically. It is vital to have good educators that look at their work as a career and choose to be teaching because they want to be, not just collecting a check. Also it is imperative to have your child play on a team where he or she is being taught respect and being respected as well, while continuing to get better at the game. It is important to have knowledgable coaches that expect their players to work their butts off and act like repsectful young men on and off the field. Some publics do not offer that. Plenty of us live in "power hoouse" districts and made a choice not to send our child to that particular school. The player's resume, summer teams, stats, etc.....will get the player where he needs to be. Just my humble opinion!
dont get me wrong..i believe strongly in school choice. there are certainly lots of reasons to seek out a private education and some good private schools in Richmond,Va.
I can also understand the "rodney dangerfield" feelings.
sounds like some of the schools did well against sone decent teans this spring.
i do think if i was going to argue the point i would stay away fron the football discussion...beating Godwin 4 out of 5 years is something alot of teams couls put on their resume.
I have attended the state championship the last few years years and can tell you the private school state champion would not last til halftime against the teams i listed..LCB,meadowbrook,hs,varina,etc..
I can also understand the "rodney dangerfield" feelings.
sounds like some of the schools did well against sone decent teans this spring.
i do think if i was going to argue the point i would stay away fron the football discussion...beating Godwin 4 out of 5 years is something alot of teams couls put on their resume.
I have attended the state championship the last few years years and can tell you the private school state champion would not last til halftime against the teams i listed..LCB,meadowbrook,hs,varina,etc..
After watching the Godwin-Steward game, the Steward pitcher is the real deal. Never seemed to waiver after the 4-5 errors and was lights out in the 6th and 7th. Godwin pitcher was awesome in the first 3 innings striking out most of the hitters he faced, but tired in the 4th and 5th.
Just my observation.
Just my observation.
I do not have a child at Steward school but have toured it for my younger son. It is an incredible school with a lot to offer. The baseball coach has an impeccable reputation. Great amount of knowledge and passion for the game and some good solid values. Any child would benefit for playing for him. Those players do not lack for attention from good colleges either.
I saw the entirety of the Benedictine-Godwin game.
Lees completely dominated. He sat in the 85-87 range and showed a nasty breaker. He gave up only one clean hit. The other hit was a pop up that the 2B had, the RF called him off, then wavered and let the ball drop. It happened with a man on 2nd and 2 outs (walk and wild pitch) and that was the game's only run. 17 K's, only 6 balls put in play.
Joseph put on a show of what it means to be a "crafty lefty." His fastball is only 80-81 but he consistently scraped the black on both sides of the plate. He had a strong curve and an outstandingly deceptive change up. He had to battle with some really poor defense. He compensated by picking 3 guys off first and a 4th off second.
Kind of a shame that ball dropped, extra innings would've been fun. The only ball hit hard all day was a double to the RCF gap by Lees leading off the 4th or 5th I think. Joseph promptly picked him off 2nd. That was Godwin's best chance to score.
In general I think what you see with private schools is that they will have some players who could be studs on any team you could name. But simply because they don't have a lot of students to draw from, sometimes they are not quite as deep in talent. It's hard to predict the outcome of any one game because one pitcher having a good day is a great equalizer. But overall it's hard to argue, the public school teams on balance are stronger.
FWIW, Benedictine is undefeated against private school opponents, typically winning by blowout, but only 2-3 in the games against public schools (and I think all five games have been one-run and/or extra inning games). What you have is perhaps the best area private school playing teams that are ranked from 5th to maybe 20th in the region and pretty much playing them even. So yes, they can complete, but that record would seem to indicate that it's also true that the overall caliber of competition is stronger in the public school ranks.
Lees completely dominated. He sat in the 85-87 range and showed a nasty breaker. He gave up only one clean hit. The other hit was a pop up that the 2B had, the RF called him off, then wavered and let the ball drop. It happened with a man on 2nd and 2 outs (walk and wild pitch) and that was the game's only run. 17 K's, only 6 balls put in play.
Joseph put on a show of what it means to be a "crafty lefty." His fastball is only 80-81 but he consistently scraped the black on both sides of the plate. He had a strong curve and an outstandingly deceptive change up. He had to battle with some really poor defense. He compensated by picking 3 guys off first and a 4th off second.
Kind of a shame that ball dropped, extra innings would've been fun. The only ball hit hard all day was a double to the RCF gap by Lees leading off the 4th or 5th I think. Joseph promptly picked him off 2nd. That was Godwin's best chance to score.
In general I think what you see with private schools is that they will have some players who could be studs on any team you could name. But simply because they don't have a lot of students to draw from, sometimes they are not quite as deep in talent. It's hard to predict the outcome of any one game because one pitcher having a good day is a great equalizer. But overall it's hard to argue, the public school teams on balance are stronger.
FWIW, Benedictine is undefeated against private school opponents, typically winning by blowout, but only 2-3 in the games against public schools (and I think all five games have been one-run and/or extra inning games). What you have is perhaps the best area private school playing teams that are ranked from 5th to maybe 20th in the region and pretty much playing them even. So yes, they can complete, but that record would seem to indicate that it's also true that the overall caliber of competition is stronger in the public school ranks.
And BTW, someone mentioned Colton Konvicka. Was anyone else at Freeman yesterday?
Freeman had bases loaded, one out, up 8-3. Batter hits a high, slicing, hard drive to DEEP RCF -- and if you know Freeman's field, you know how deep it is out there. Konvicka sets off from having the righty batter shaded slightly left of dead center, on a dead run, and hauls the ball in over his shoulder to hold it to a sac fly. If you know how fast Konvicka is (6.5 in the 60), you know there is not another player in our area who makes that play.
But wait, there's more.
Very next hitter -- now 2 outs, first and third -- is a righty who smashes a wicked liner to RCF, again slicing away from Konvicka. Again on the dead sprint, he leaps, completely horizontal to the ground, gets completely stretched out and snags it, preventing a bases-clearing triple and ending the inning.
The Freeman home fans gave the boy a standing ovation. I know the kid and even I couldn't believe it.
Konvicka later had a bases loaded single for 2 RBI, stole second and scored the go ahead run for Benedictine. It would've been a storybook ending, but the truth is, Freeman came back to pull out the win. Still, when someone says Konvicka is "being recruited", that is an understatement. We're talking about raw athleticism of national caliber.
Freeman had bases loaded, one out, up 8-3. Batter hits a high, slicing, hard drive to DEEP RCF -- and if you know Freeman's field, you know how deep it is out there. Konvicka sets off from having the righty batter shaded slightly left of dead center, on a dead run, and hauls the ball in over his shoulder to hold it to a sac fly. If you know how fast Konvicka is (6.5 in the 60), you know there is not another player in our area who makes that play.
But wait, there's more.
Very next hitter -- now 2 outs, first and third -- is a righty who smashes a wicked liner to RCF, again slicing away from Konvicka. Again on the dead sprint, he leaps, completely horizontal to the ground, gets completely stretched out and snags it, preventing a bases-clearing triple and ending the inning.
The Freeman home fans gave the boy a standing ovation. I know the kid and even I couldn't believe it.
Konvicka later had a bases loaded single for 2 RBI, stole second and scored the go ahead run for Benedictine. It would've been a storybook ending, but the truth is, Freeman came back to pull out the win. Still, when someone says Konvicka is "being recruited", that is an understatement. We're talking about raw athleticism of national caliber.
quote:Originally posted by hsbasballfan:
dont get me wrong..i believe strongly in school choice. there are certainly lots of reasons to seek out a private education and some good private schools in Richmond,Va.
I can also understand the "rodney dangerfield" feelings.
sounds like some of the schools did well against sone decent teans this spring.
i do think if i was going to argue the point i would stay away fron the football discussion...beating Godwin 4 out of 5 years is something alot of teams couls put on their resume.
I have attended the state championship the last few years years and can tell you the private school state champion would not last til halftime against the teams i listed..LCB,meadowbrook,hs,varina,etc..
FWIW-- hsbasball--
I agreed earlier that football is the sport that makes the most difference in school population b/c of sheer numbers needed but you brought up the football arguement now you suggest staying away from it-which is it?
Let's get back to baseball-- In mentioning that Lees (a very good pitcher and a good kid) had a break-out performance, you then put it down by saying it was against Benedictine.. Led to some backlash here about whether privates could play.
Midlo Dad points to BHS record against #5-20 level teams--?? probably fair point. Earlier comments were stated that this was no surprise --that BHS, StC (AND STEWARD) can play with the publics- then you start splitting hairs about--"this is spring break"--#4 team hasn't thrown top pitcher yet" etc. etc.
Bottom line--BHS 3-1, StC 3-1, Godwin 0-4 in this tourney (congrats to Freeman 4-0 maybe a little surprise to the pre-season thoughts)but won a couple of close high scoring games--kudos to their offense.
BHS is 3-2 this year against publics (correction Midlo-- 3-1 in this event and loss to PG, I think). StC is 3-1 against publics this year (13-6 over last 5 years, including various years victories over ranked teams Manchester 2008--beat Manachester ace that year Hardee (sp??)Freeman 2008, LeeDavis 2008 & 2009 and Godwin 2011 and LeeDavis 2011).
So back to original statement in this thread--- StC and Benedictine are two of the best Div 1 private schools in the state. Currently #1 and #3 in state. They played very well against some good (usually very good) public school teams in the only venue that they get a chance to play. AND not surprising to anyone who has seen them-- they did well.
Sat nite , April 30 at RF&P , they play in the only regular season game scheduled this year.
Met last year at same venue, where Stc pitcher, VISAA player of the year, Campbell Henkel (VMI) threw a perfect game in front of 1,000 spectators-- Two weeks later, Benedictine turned the tables in the state championship game as Zack Joseph threw a 2-hitter'.
Come see two good teams play.
that approach has not been successful in other games...which supports the point that over the course of a season the private schools do not consistly see good pitching or competition...Mamchester holds the State Champ to three hits and Godwin strikes out 17?
hsbaseballfan
Benedictine pitcher holds Manchester (who was ranked #1 most of the last two years) and Godwin (consistantly one of the top teams in the area) to eight hits and four runs over two games? Sort of supports the point that privates have some good pitchers.
BTW-- if that HR was at Manchester, bad luck for the pitcher-- fly-out at any other HS field.
Benedictine pitcher holds Manchester (who was ranked #1 most of the last two years) and Godwin (consistantly one of the top teams in the area) to eight hits and four runs over two games? Sort of supports the point that privates have some good pitchers.
BTW-- if that HR was at Manchester, bad luck for the pitcher-- fly-out at any other HS field.
I did not know Benedictine had beaten Hermitage last night when I said they were 2-3 against public AAA teams. That makes them 3-3 in those games. But it doesn't change my point.
Look, I'm not here to denigrate Benedictine or St. Chris. Both are great schools and both teams are playing very well, both have some tremendous talent on them. Including kids I either recruited to my summer team, or tried to and didn't get!
But still, here you have the top private school team in the state, and they are basically playing even with Manchester, Prince George, Lee-Davis, Freeman, Godwin and Hermitage. Of those Lee-Davis at 8-3 is having the best season so far. The rest of them are having middle-of-the-pack seasons. And I'm not sure but not only did Benedictine split these six games, I think they were all one-run games, including at least one of them in extra innings. That's about as evenly matched as you get.
I haven't seen as much of St. Chris. They too have a solid track record of producing top players, and the fact that they have such a stellar academic rep helps them get guys recruited, too. (Coaches like guys they know won't flunk out on them.) But I saw the Godwin game, and Godwin was up 8-0 before their coach decided it was time to give every guy who hadn't pitched yet this year an inning. St. Chris took advantage and came back to win. Yes, the starter returned for Godwin, but too rusty and too late to stop the bleeding. Had he remained in past the third inning in the first place the game might have been a mercy rule decision in 5.
While again, pitching can neutralize even the best of teams in any one game, the record over the six games suggests that the very best private school team in the state is on par with middle-of-the-pack AAA public teams. I guess some would consider that an insult, but I don't. When you can pull a team out of a fraction of the number of males that a public school has and play toe to toe with them, that is saying something.
Look, I'm not here to denigrate Benedictine or St. Chris. Both are great schools and both teams are playing very well, both have some tremendous talent on them. Including kids I either recruited to my summer team, or tried to and didn't get!
But still, here you have the top private school team in the state, and they are basically playing even with Manchester, Prince George, Lee-Davis, Freeman, Godwin and Hermitage. Of those Lee-Davis at 8-3 is having the best season so far. The rest of them are having middle-of-the-pack seasons. And I'm not sure but not only did Benedictine split these six games, I think they were all one-run games, including at least one of them in extra innings. That's about as evenly matched as you get.
I haven't seen as much of St. Chris. They too have a solid track record of producing top players, and the fact that they have such a stellar academic rep helps them get guys recruited, too. (Coaches like guys they know won't flunk out on them.) But I saw the Godwin game, and Godwin was up 8-0 before their coach decided it was time to give every guy who hadn't pitched yet this year an inning. St. Chris took advantage and came back to win. Yes, the starter returned for Godwin, but too rusty and too late to stop the bleeding. Had he remained in past the third inning in the first place the game might have been a mercy rule decision in 5.
While again, pitching can neutralize even the best of teams in any one game, the record over the six games suggests that the very best private school team in the state is on par with middle-of-the-pack AAA public teams. I guess some would consider that an insult, but I don't. When you can pull a team out of a fraction of the number of males that a public school has and play toe to toe with them, that is saying something.
Mido
Good points-- you usually make them.
First, When I began here, I did not say BHS and StC were the best-- I said, they could play with anyone. Overstatement? Ubviously, some think so.
But likewise, wonder how Freeman, Godwin, Manchester and LeeDavis feel about you calling them "middle of the pack"?
I also was at Godwin game-and what you describe is truw re: Godwin pitching decisions, but can't be "mercy rule" unless you score 10 runs- Godwin scored 8.
I don't claim that BHS and StC are the "best" but they are above "middle of the pack". But until we see more than spring break games-- we won't know.
IMHO-StC is good this year, maybe not as good as last year--pitching being the difference. But when Henkel was the SP last year, StC had 4 seniors, 3 juniors and 2 frosh in the line-up. Those four seniors (plus another Sr pitcher) are all on college rosters or in pros. Three juniors (now seniors) will all be on rosters next year (only one is committed- but Fox and Martin have offers)Just FYI, Fox thr RTD scholar-athlete of the month has not committed b/c he waited for admissions decisions from couple of Ivy League schools. Those two frosh (now sophs), Reinhardt and Yurgan (starters for Canes and Braves) will be on DI rosters in two years. Not sure, but I don't know if there has been another HS team that can make that claim.
Finally, bet if you ask kids from around the area-with all that's been said about pitchers making a difference- whether Cosby, Dinwiddie, Manchester or Godwin from last year with their ace on the mound-- would they "bet the ranch" against StC with Henkel on the mound (same with BHS with Joseph or Woods this year aginst top 3--BHS already beat #4), I think there would be few takers.
Not saying StC or BHS wins 9 of 10, but they don't lose 9 of 10 either.
Good points-- you usually make them.
First, When I began here, I did not say BHS and StC were the best-- I said, they could play with anyone. Overstatement? Ubviously, some think so.
But likewise, wonder how Freeman, Godwin, Manchester and LeeDavis feel about you calling them "middle of the pack"?
I also was at Godwin game-and what you describe is truw re: Godwin pitching decisions, but can't be "mercy rule" unless you score 10 runs- Godwin scored 8.
I don't claim that BHS and StC are the "best" but they are above "middle of the pack". But until we see more than spring break games-- we won't know.
IMHO-StC is good this year, maybe not as good as last year--pitching being the difference. But when Henkel was the SP last year, StC had 4 seniors, 3 juniors and 2 frosh in the line-up. Those four seniors (plus another Sr pitcher) are all on college rosters or in pros. Three juniors (now seniors) will all be on rosters next year (only one is committed- but Fox and Martin have offers)Just FYI, Fox thr RTD scholar-athlete of the month has not committed b/c he waited for admissions decisions from couple of Ivy League schools. Those two frosh (now sophs), Reinhardt and Yurgan (starters for Canes and Braves) will be on DI rosters in two years. Not sure, but I don't know if there has been another HS team that can make that claim.
Finally, bet if you ask kids from around the area-with all that's been said about pitchers making a difference- whether Cosby, Dinwiddie, Manchester or Godwin from last year with their ace on the mound-- would they "bet the ranch" against StC with Henkel on the mound (same with BHS with Joseph or Woods this year aginst top 3--BHS already beat #4), I think there would be few takers.
Not saying StC or BHS wins 9 of 10, but they don't lose 9 of 10 either.
quote:Originally posted by Prep Ballfan:
hsbaseballfan
BTW-- if that HR was at Manchester, bad luck for the pitcher-- fly-out at any other HS field.
FYI, HR was at Benedictine.
prep fan....dont have to get all defensive..
i think what is meant by "midddle of the pack" is some of those teams are not as strong as they have been in the past. Manchester only returned 2 regular starters this year for example.
certainly private schools can "compete" with public schools...they all have a few good ball players on their roster as you have detailed for us.
Not taking anything away from anyone but honestly...I know families that send their kids to private schools because they are concerned about them making their public school team...those are the kids that usually fill out the roster and teams build around the 2 or 3 strong players with.
Your question about schools "betting the farm" ? what i think you dont get is of those schools you named...Dinwiddie,Manchester,Cosby,Godwin....they all have two or 3 "henkels" on their team and the hitters face that caliber of pitching week after week last year....to say there would be "few takers is way off base"
Is the Virginia Private high school state champion able to compate against and win some games against public school team? of course they are....would they win more than they lose against the best teams? I do not think so.
i think what is meant by "midddle of the pack" is some of those teams are not as strong as they have been in the past. Manchester only returned 2 regular starters this year for example.
certainly private schools can "compete" with public schools...they all have a few good ball players on their roster as you have detailed for us.
Not taking anything away from anyone but honestly...I know families that send their kids to private schools because they are concerned about them making their public school team...those are the kids that usually fill out the roster and teams build around the 2 or 3 strong players with.
Your question about schools "betting the farm" ? what i think you dont get is of those schools you named...Dinwiddie,Manchester,Cosby,Godwin....they all have two or 3 "henkels" on their team and the hitters face that caliber of pitching week after week last year....to say there would be "few takers is way off base"
Is the Virginia Private high school state champion able to compate against and win some games against public school team? of course they are....would they win more than they lose against the best teams? I do not think so.
If anyone has toured some of these privates, I honestly do not think they would choose most publics over them. These schools teach accountability. They get these kids out helping the commuinity. I could go on and on about advantages all day. Yes, not everyone can afford private. I think to suggest that people send ther kids to these schools strictly for baseball is completely incorrect. BTW, one of my sons goes public, only because we are happy with it. If publics were "allowed" to play more games, they would run into some trouble, even the more "loaded" ones. I have seen publics that are not that deep in pitching with fewer amount of games per week look shaky. Imagine if they had a couple more games in a week?
On another note, hands down Lees is one of the most impressive pitcher out there, Great kid with a great future.
On another note, hands down Lees is one of the most impressive pitcher out there, Great kid with a great future.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by hsbasballfan:
prep fan....dont have to get all defensive
i think you dont get is of those schools you named...Dinwiddie,Manchester,Cosby,Godwin....they all have two or 3 "henkels" on their team and the hitters face that caliber of pitching week after week
(ANSWER)If you are saying "best" publics each year (say top 4) are deeper than privates in pitching year over year-- I may agree.
But to say any team (other than James River a couple of years ago with Marrs and Stadler and from what I hear maybe James River in the next couple of years) has even two (much less three) Henkel's is absurd. Two time All-Metro playing D1 now.
As to publics facing that kind of pitching week in-week out- please. Two games each year against JM, TJ, MWGS or HS, Varina or CH, Hopewell, etc depending on the district-- sometimes they don't see one for two weeks.
prep fan....dont have to get all defensive
i think you dont get is of those schools you named...Dinwiddie,Manchester,Cosby,Godwin....they all have two or 3 "henkels" on their team and the hitters face that caliber of pitching week after week
(ANSWER)If you are saying "best" publics each year (say top 4) are deeper than privates in pitching year over year-- I may agree.
But to say any team (other than James River a couple of years ago with Marrs and Stadler and from what I hear maybe James River in the next couple of years) has even two (much less three) Henkel's is absurd. Two time All-Metro playing D1 now.
As to publics facing that kind of pitching week in-week out- please. Two games each year against JM, TJ, MWGS or HS, Varina or CH, Hopewell, etc depending on the district-- sometimes they don't see one for two weeks.
quote:Originally posted by 2Slim:quote:Originally posted by Prep Ballfan:
hsbaseballfan
BTW-- if that HR was at Manchester, bad luck for the pitcher-- fly-out at any other HS field.
FYI, HR was at Benedictine.
Thanks--I did say "if"
Benedictine is not exactly a deep field, either. And the wind blows out there a lot.
As for having two high level pitchers right now, you might want to add Deep Run to that list. Maybe also Dinwiddie. I don't know much about Hanover but as they're undefeated I have to believe someone out there can pitch.
As for having two high level pitchers right now, you might want to add Deep Run to that list. Maybe also Dinwiddie. I don't know much about Hanover but as they're undefeated I have to believe someone out there can pitch.
man you guys have got it bad! maybe since its a baseball site we should stick to talking baseball...private schools teach accountability? c'mon...i teach that at my house and alot of public school coaches may find it offensive to say they dont..so lets stick to the baseball stuff.
it really sounds like as badly as you want to believe it and support your belief with examples you just havent seen enough of who/ what is out there to draw any conclusions.
here are some teams that have been pretty deep in talent last couble of years you may not be familiar with...
Manchester...hauser,morrison,florence
matoaca...ramsey,howerton,kilbourne...had another pitcher Bierline tat was winning pitcher today in the ODAC championship for RMC
absolutely there have been plenty of teams with 2-3 high calibar pitchers
get out and see some ball...maybe even cross the river and dont accept what people tell you that teams like James River have for pitching
it really sounds like as badly as you want to believe it and support your belief with examples you just havent seen enough of who/ what is out there to draw any conclusions.
here are some teams that have been pretty deep in talent last couble of years you may not be familiar with...
Manchester...hauser,morrison,florence
matoaca...ramsey,howerton,kilbourne...had another pitcher Bierline tat was winning pitcher today in the ODAC championship for RMC
absolutely there have been plenty of teams with 2-3 high calibar pitchers
get out and see some ball...maybe even cross the river and dont accept what people tell you that teams like James River have for pitching
People send their kids to private school because they cannot make a public school team?? Man, that is a little harsh. Let's stick to being positive. People make school choices for their own personal reasons, if their kids are not being taught what the parents believe should be taught, than they have ever right to find a school that does. Baseball included. Who said anything offensive about baseball coaches? Because I happened to compliment a Coach at one private school?? Your relentless pursuit to get Prepball to succumb to your opinion was getting tiring.
Sounds like you may want to chill a bit HS.
It seems like this was a pretty good discussion for the most part, but it doesn't seem like anyone was trying to knock anyone intentionally.
It would be foolish to not know that the Central Region has a pretty strong tradition of baseball, public and private. There are certainly players on private teams that could be integral parts of public teams. It comes across as foolish to say that "alot of public school coaches may find it offensive to say they don't" No one said they don't teach accountability. Wahoo said that "They teach accountability, they get these kids out helping the community"
Just sounds like he was pointing out some positives of the privates-no need to read any further or take offense to it.
However, I may take offense if I had a borderline player on a private school team that you or others may think I sent there "Only for baseball"
That is one expensive High School Baseball career, since any kid in question won't be playing college ball.
It seems like this was a pretty good discussion for the most part, but it doesn't seem like anyone was trying to knock anyone intentionally.
It would be foolish to not know that the Central Region has a pretty strong tradition of baseball, public and private. There are certainly players on private teams that could be integral parts of public teams. It comes across as foolish to say that "alot of public school coaches may find it offensive to say they don't" No one said they don't teach accountability. Wahoo said that "They teach accountability, they get these kids out helping the community"
Just sounds like he was pointing out some positives of the privates-no need to read any further or take offense to it.
However, I may take offense if I had a borderline player on a private school team that you or others may think I sent there "Only for baseball"
That is one expensive High School Baseball career, since any kid in question won't be playing college ball.