What is the difference between the JUGS gun and what they call the slow gun. I see many players shown as being clocked at 88-89mph, but profiles state that by sring they should be hitting these speeds. Is there a speed difference?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
That is a confusing post. What profiles state that they should be doing what by spring? And where are you hanging around that there are "many" guys throwing 88-89?
Let me clarify, I want to know the difference in speed guns used. I hear the JUGS clocks speeds 3-4 mph higher, whereas the slow gun clocks actual speed.
One measures out of the hand and one measures as it crosses the plate, for some reason I want to say the Ray is out of the hand and the juggs is across the plate. i could be wrong. ray gun will be a slower mph
so what would it be on the jugs if a kid is throwing 90 on the stalker
the jugs gun is the most accurate radar gun
The JUGS gun gets the reading right out of the pitchers hand. Which tends to be 3-4 mph faster than when it crosses the plate.
The "stalker" will not only get the reading out of the hand, but also as it crosses home plate. Alot of scouts use the stalker because they want to see a pitchers velocity when it crosses homeplate. Some pitchers lose 3 mph from the release till when it crosses the plate, while others could lose 4-6 mph.
So when you hear somebody talk about how they were gunned at 87mph, was it on the Jugs or the stalker?
Hope this helps.
The "stalker" will not only get the reading out of the hand, but also as it crosses home plate. Alot of scouts use the stalker because they want to see a pitchers velocity when it crosses homeplate. Some pitchers lose 3 mph from the release till when it crosses the plate, while others could lose 4-6 mph.
So when you hear somebody talk about how they were gunned at 87mph, was it on the Jugs or the stalker?
Hope this helps.
quote:Originally posted by Goose:
the jugs gun is the most accurate radar gun
If jugs is the most accurate then why do most of the scouts I know and Perfect Game use the Stalker gun. I would be willing to bet that most of them would say the Stalker Pro is the best gun out there.
The JUGS gun is most definitely NOT the most accurate gun out there. Most pro scouts, colleges, and Perfect Game use the Stalker. JUGS is generally considered 3-4 over when throwing in the 80-90 mph area. The great thing about the Stalker is it can measure out of hand as well as at the plate. Most scouts use out-of-hand as the standard.
Many "academies" and HS coaches will use a JUGS gun--as it tends to inflate the velocity. This is why kids are often disappointed when they go to Showcases or school visits and find they are gunned 3-4 mph below what they were hitting with their instructors or during a HS game.
Many "academies" and HS coaches will use a JUGS gun--as it tends to inflate the velocity. This is why kids are often disappointed when they go to Showcases or school visits and find they are gunned 3-4 mph below what they were hitting with their instructors or during a HS game.
Goose, Where do you get your information? Who do you think you're impressing by posting drivel that is incorrect? Now you're the expert on radar guns (evidently not).
ThanksK13, you are 100% correct that the Stalker is the standard of the industry.
ThanksK13, you are 100% correct that the Stalker is the standard of the industry.
I've used a jugs many times and have found it is usually 1-2 mph higher than the Stalker right next to it, at times they were the same.
Lots of variables but if a kid has the chance he should be gunned with a stalker as that is the standard for most mlb/college scouts.
Lots of variables but if a kid has the chance he should be gunned with a stalker as that is the standard for most mlb/college scouts.
Normally 2-4 difference between the two and as the speeds get higher like 90s and up they start to come closer together.
boy rosy, any shot u can get at me just go ahead and fire away.
I dont claim to be an expert on radar guns at all but i do know that many pony and freshman coaches prefer the jugs becauase it does measure the ball out of ur hand thus getting the same reading at any distance for a pitcher. Whether its 46, 48, 54, or 60 ft the jugs gun seems to get the same reading. The stalker will get differnet readings because the ball is traveling over the plate at differnt distances
I dont claim to be an expert on radar guns at all but i do know that many pony and freshman coaches prefer the jugs becauase it does measure the ball out of ur hand thus getting the same reading at any distance for a pitcher. Whether its 46, 48, 54, or 60 ft the jugs gun seems to get the same reading. The stalker will get differnet readings because the ball is traveling over the plate at differnt distances
If I could understand what you just wrote I might respond. However, every time I read it it's more confusing than the previous time.
I'll stick with the previous explanation by K13.
I'll stick with the previous explanation by K13.
whats not to understand rosy
Well Goose, I am not going to take a "shot" at you. However, am going to explain to you why you are simply wrong on this one, and why Stalker and not JUGS is the industry standard, as well as the gun preferred by pro scouts, college coaches, and serious showcase events.
A) First and foremost, it is more accurate. JUGS guns overestimate velocity by 1-4 mph depending on the speed of the pitch.
B) Stalker guns can measure velocity BOTH out-of-hand and across the plate on the SAME pitch. JUGS guns can only measure out-of-hand, or, if aimed across the plate, a very unreliable across the plate reading. But, a JUGS gun can not measure both on the same pitch.
C) Your argument about the Stalker getting different readings because the ball is traveling across the plate at different distances is incorrect. The Stalker will give you ONE reading for out-of-hand, and an ACCURATE reading across the plate. The across the plate reading will vary with the distance traveled because the ball will lose velocity over a greater distance.
JUGS guns, on the other hand, are favored by SOME HS coaches, SOME youth coaches, SOME academies, or a few showcase events because they:
1) Are cheaper.
2) Err on the side of overestimating the velocity, therefore allowing those using them to inflate the velocity of those being measured. There are obvious reasons for this, which I will not get into.
A) First and foremost, it is more accurate. JUGS guns overestimate velocity by 1-4 mph depending on the speed of the pitch.
B) Stalker guns can measure velocity BOTH out-of-hand and across the plate on the SAME pitch. JUGS guns can only measure out-of-hand, or, if aimed across the plate, a very unreliable across the plate reading. But, a JUGS gun can not measure both on the same pitch.
C) Your argument about the Stalker getting different readings because the ball is traveling across the plate at different distances is incorrect. The Stalker will give you ONE reading for out-of-hand, and an ACCURATE reading across the plate. The across the plate reading will vary with the distance traveled because the ball will lose velocity over a greater distance.
JUGS guns, on the other hand, are favored by SOME HS coaches, SOME youth coaches, SOME academies, or a few showcase events because they:
1) Are cheaper.
2) Err on the side of overestimating the velocity, therefore allowing those using them to inflate the velocity of those being measured. There are obvious reasons for this, which I will not get into.
ok guys i guess im sold on the stalker gun.
Is there any difference between a reading from a radar gun indoors as opose to out doors?
Is there any difference between a reading from a radar gun indoors as opose to out doors?
If it is tuned and set properly, there shouldn't be, although you may get a SLIGHTLY different reading (+ or - 1).
You guys are seriously arguing over the differences between radar guns. I seriously dont know when people are going to start to realize that speed isnt everything. I would take a guy who is throwing 80 mph and gets his pitchers over for strikes and knows how to pitch, rather than someone whos throwing 90+, has no idea where its going, and doesnt know what hes doind out there.
Leftside04:
Hard to argue with that logic. Nice post and welcome aboard!
Oh and...
GO WHITE SOX!!! Did I mention I'm a White Sox fan?! Heady times in October of '05!
Hard to argue with that logic. Nice post and welcome aboard!
Oh and...
GO WHITE SOX!!! Did I mention I'm a White Sox fan?! Heady times in October of '05!
I thought rosy would be using a lower profile after what he did to Patti Biggio!
Sox, Now that's pretty funny. I've never struck a woman but why aren't I surprised about some jerk at the Cell hitting Mrs. Biggio? Maybe it wasn't really a man but one of the Southside females that Beenthere refers to as having "big hair". LOL.
Congratulations in advance to your White Sox for bringing a World Championship to our city. For this lifelong Cub fan it has been nothing short of remarkable watching this thing unfold. I hope to live long enough to see a World Series game at Wrigley with my son.
Congratulations in advance to your White Sox for bringing a World Championship to our city. For this lifelong Cub fan it has been nothing short of remarkable watching this thing unfold. I hope to live long enough to see a World Series game at Wrigley with my son.
itsrosy:
I truly hope you get your chance at Wrigley too!
It's alot of fun and I don't say that to rub it in. I've got red pinch marks all over because I've had a hard time believing it too!
Ozzie and Kenny have laid out a road map for others.
Keep the heat on the management up there and demand a winner!
It'll happen.
I truly hope you get your chance at Wrigley too!
It's alot of fun and I don't say that to rub it in. I've got red pinch marks all over because I've had a hard time believing it too!
Ozzie and Kenny have laid out a road map for others.
Keep the heat on the management up there and demand a winner!
It'll happen.
ls04...
Understanding the difference between the various radar guns and the reasons why some provide more accurate readings has little to do with devaluing the importance of the ability to get hitters out. Quite honestly, that has been a theme that has run throughout a number of posts across many threads on this board. And, LET THERE BE NO DOUBT, getting hitters out IS what is important.
However, since radar guns are used throughout the baseball world and are often AN (not the only) important factor in evaluating a prospect, it is useful for players, parents, coaches, etc. to have accurate information on them. Wanting to know which gun is most accurate or which is the industry standard does not at all mean that you are overvaluing velocity. It just means you are doing your homework on ONE factor involved in evaluating a pitcher.
Since this is a site dedicated to just such information, it seems like a legitimate interest to be discussed.
Understanding the difference between the various radar guns and the reasons why some provide more accurate readings has little to do with devaluing the importance of the ability to get hitters out. Quite honestly, that has been a theme that has run throughout a number of posts across many threads on this board. And, LET THERE BE NO DOUBT, getting hitters out IS what is important.
However, since radar guns are used throughout the baseball world and are often AN (not the only) important factor in evaluating a prospect, it is useful for players, parents, coaches, etc. to have accurate information on them. Wanting to know which gun is most accurate or which is the industry standard does not at all mean that you are overvaluing velocity. It just means you are doing your homework on ONE factor involved in evaluating a pitcher.
Since this is a site dedicated to just such information, it seems like a legitimate interest to be discussed.
Don't know about anyone else but I have always used a gun to show a young pitcher the drop in velocity he has with a good change-up. We also use it to show the difference from his curve or slider. It is important for them to understand the value of changing speeds with grips as opposed to slowing down your arm speed, a gun, any gun is useful for this. I also use them while doing the Athletic Pitcher program to track their progress when we focus on velocity, same thing here any gun as long as it is consistent and you have a starting point and keep accurate records will work. Just a thought and an opinion.
Amen lineshot! People get gun happy all the time. The gun does not tell you if the pitcher has a live moving ball, the gun does not tell you what kind of heart the kid has. The gun does not tell you if the kid can throw a 3 and 2 curve with the bases loaded.
It does not matter if you use the Ray, Stalker or the Jugs. If you know where each one measures the speed of the pitch, you can calculate in your mind the speed each respective gun would measure any given pitch, for example; if you are using a Jugs gun.
One of the best pitchers I ever coached went 12 and 2 as a junior and 13 and 0 as a senior and he topped out at 82 mph on the Jugs. He also won the State championship game. Great curve, and splitter! Nobody ever got a good swing at him.
"Pitching is the ability of the pitcher to keep the hitter from realizing his timing"
Obviously the harded a pitcher throws, the less time a hitter has to react. So there is an advantage to throwing harder if you can change speeds effectively. If you rare back and just fire, you'll get beat! especially in better baseball.
Remember this! In better baseball the hitters have much quicker hands. This means (if they have the discipline) they can sit back longer to take a better look.... This in turn can lead to better pitch recognition. It becomes that much more important at these higher levels to be a pitcher (Maddux), not a thrower.
I have 4 pitchers on division 1 rosters right now (Texas,Butler,Northwestern and Eastern Kentucky) and 1 early division 1 sign for next year (Bradley). They all are up near or over 90 mph, but they all can change speeds which is the true reason for their success. You take away anyone of these kids ability to change speeds and they become very average in a hurry. The gun is great for teaching kids how to change speeds. It can greatly hinder a kid if you use it just to see him throw hard all the time. Most parents are concerned how hard their kid is throwing, and let's face it, the young pitchers are caught up in it as well. We as coaches need to show them the real reasons for using the gun.
Great post lineshot! You obviously know how to use a gun with a young pitcher.
It does not matter if you use the Ray, Stalker or the Jugs. If you know where each one measures the speed of the pitch, you can calculate in your mind the speed each respective gun would measure any given pitch, for example; if you are using a Jugs gun.
One of the best pitchers I ever coached went 12 and 2 as a junior and 13 and 0 as a senior and he topped out at 82 mph on the Jugs. He also won the State championship game. Great curve, and splitter! Nobody ever got a good swing at him.
"Pitching is the ability of the pitcher to keep the hitter from realizing his timing"
Obviously the harded a pitcher throws, the less time a hitter has to react. So there is an advantage to throwing harder if you can change speeds effectively. If you rare back and just fire, you'll get beat! especially in better baseball.
Remember this! In better baseball the hitters have much quicker hands. This means (if they have the discipline) they can sit back longer to take a better look.... This in turn can lead to better pitch recognition. It becomes that much more important at these higher levels to be a pitcher (Maddux), not a thrower.
I have 4 pitchers on division 1 rosters right now (Texas,Butler,Northwestern and Eastern Kentucky) and 1 early division 1 sign for next year (Bradley). They all are up near or over 90 mph, but they all can change speeds which is the true reason for their success. You take away anyone of these kids ability to change speeds and they become very average in a hurry. The gun is great for teaching kids how to change speeds. It can greatly hinder a kid if you use it just to see him throw hard all the time. Most parents are concerned how hard their kid is throwing, and let's face it, the young pitchers are caught up in it as well. We as coaches need to show them the real reasons for using the gun.
Great post lineshot! You obviously know how to use a gun with a young pitcher.
nice one tt41, who do u have at Butler?
U can PM me if u want.
U can PM me if u want.
Velocity is definitely overrated, but I'd rather have it, than not 
Goose- His name is Pat Feeney, He is the closer at Butler. He was hampered by a bone spur in 05 and pitched in pain until he was shutdown. He had an outstanding sophomore year 04. His elbow has been cleaned out and he is ready to go this year. He drops down less than 3/4 and can really make the ball dance with superior control. In 04 he pitched 32 innings had a 2.04 era and opponents batted .192 against him.
Stalker is definitely the industry standard but I would like to dispel a few misconceptions:
Actually only the Stalker Pro (most scouts have the Stalker Sport) will do the hand and plate speeds on the same pitch.
The sport model has the peak mode (which registers the ball 3-4 inches out of the hand) and the variable or continuous mode (which gives you the average velocity as the ball travels to the plate).
The newer JUGGS guns have both modes as well. The difference being the JUGGS Peak mode measures "arm speed" or the instant the ball separates from the hand. (which leads to the higher velocity by 1-3 mph) The continuous mode gives you the average speed as the ball travels to the plate.
Hope this helps.
quote:B) Stalker guns can measure velocity BOTH out-of-hand and across the plate on the SAME pitch. JUGS guns can only measure out-of-hand, or, if aimed across the plate, a very unreliable across the plate reading. But, a JUGS gun can not measure both on the same pitch.
Actually only the Stalker Pro (most scouts have the Stalker Sport) will do the hand and plate speeds on the same pitch.
The sport model has the peak mode (which registers the ball 3-4 inches out of the hand) and the variable or continuous mode (which gives you the average velocity as the ball travels to the plate).
The newer JUGGS guns have both modes as well. The difference being the JUGGS Peak mode measures "arm speed" or the instant the ball separates from the hand. (which leads to the higher velocity by 1-3 mph) The continuous mode gives you the average speed as the ball travels to the plate.
Hope this helps.