Radar Gun

2013 Dad,

We are Stalkers biggest customer. Currently have well over 100 Stalker Guns.

We used to use Jugs and still do use the Jugs display in our building. Our reason for using Stalker is that it is the gun most often used by Pro Scouts and top colleges. So our readings match up with what they are getting.

The only problem with the Stalker is it costs quite a bit.

I checked the specs on the gun you mentioned above. I'm no expert, but there are a couple things that sound discouraging, at least for our usage.

First is Range Performance... The specs read...

Range depends on target size, typical range for balls is upto 40 feet, Cars ,typically 200 feet.

The upto 40 feet isn't very far!

Next is Accuracy... The specs read...

+/- 3% plus 1 MPH or 1 Km/h

3% can be a big difference in pitchers. And depending if it is 3% up or 3% down, that could easily read 89-90 or 95-96. That's not good enough accuracy.

I'm just basing this on what I read. I have no experience with that gun.

Thanks PG. Much appreciated.

I found a mint condition JUGS radar gun on e-bay for ~1/2 price of new. Not cheap, but it is far superior to the old Bushnell we used to use when the kids were younger.

Good luck.

PG, as you know, there have been tons of discussions revolving around Jugs vs. Stalker guns. Since you have a lot of experience with radar guns, what has your personal or organizational experience been with the difference between the two? Is there that much of a difference? Are Jugs guns off as much as some say? Is a reading off a Jugs gun pretty much worthless? Or do you automatically have to subtract 2 mph off a Jugs reading? $800 is a lot to pay for a radar gun that is basically not giving you the readings you want to have.

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Our reason for using Stalker is that it is the gun most often used by Pro Scouts and top colleges. So our readings match up with what they are getting.

That is a very compelling reason to by a stalker.

How often are radar guns calibrated? Yearly, monthly, daily...?

However often you pay the $100 to have them calibrated.

Actually they have a tuning fork to check them and also have an internal self test. I had mine done 3 years ago and whenever there is an event where there are other Stalkers I compare numbers. They are always within 1 MPH. If you are a police officer they must be done yearly to be legal. Always good to ask if you get pulled over.

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Originally posted by BOF:
If you are a police officer they must be done yearly to be legal. Always good to ask if you get pulled over.

I always wonder how anyone knows where they pointed their gun. It would be very easy to gun a car 3 cars away from me, and nobody would know the difference.

We send them in when there is a problem. They go for a long time if not abused.

I have nothing against the Jugs guns. We seemed to notice a bit higher readings on the portable ones (often called hand dryers). For our use the premium battery package with the Stalker works better than recharging the normal batteries the Jugs uses.

Of course the Jugs doesn't cost as much, so that is a benefit. Stalker is the gun most often used by decision makers these days. We want the same readings they are getting or as close to it as possible. That and you can have an extra premium battery handle and it will last from morning till late at night.

From what I've seen (and is confirmed in research here and elsewhere), the Jugs will give you a spike every now and then (not often). If you're taking readings of 25-30 pitches, then you average things anyway.

I sat behind a guy at a MLB game last summer behind Home Plate who had a Stalker. We were 130' behind the C easily. I think that is a big benefit to that gun over some of the others... it is going to give more consistent readings from a longer distance from the target...something scouts need.

I was able to find a used juggs gun a year ago for $400. I'm not sure how far away it will clock a baseball, but it will easily do a car at 400 yards plus.

I saw lots of juggs guns at the showcases and camps.

I can't prove it, but I believe used radar guns get cheaper in the late fall and early winter.

For general purposes though, is a Bushnell fine for looking at relative speed increments? Average of ten versus an average of ten a while later?

We can go and get a Stalker reading in a number of places if we need that kind of accuracy on the absolute number. However; for the next few years, a relative number would be just fine, as long as it sowed relative changes.

My experience with the Bushnell was "waste of money". Even in a pitching tunnel, it was all over the place with a baseball.

It seems to work better for softball, either because the ball is bigger or I'm not as ****. Don't know which.

If you get a Bushnell...
1. It loves coppertop batteries - forget rechargeables or chinese batteries.
2. Get only the new version that gives high and low readings for a given pitch
3. It will not pick up the ball as frequently (as close to the hand) as a Stalker/JUGS, so must add approx 3 mph. (also, make sure the hi/lo variance - the drop in speed from hand to catcher - is 3-5 mph - if not, you only picked up a low reading.)
4. They don't always give a reading.
5. They will not measure bat speed of a metal bat.
6. Unless you are a Dad/player, don't buy it because of all the items above

As you can tell, my Bushnell and I have a love/hate relationship.

The busnell does not have the power nor beam focus of the juggs/stalker. That said it is a great little tool for working with pitchers if you stand close behind them. It allows you to accurately measure the speed differences between pitches as they master their off speed stuff.

Harv, thats what i used it for to show the differnce in speeds between pitches. Let the experts scouts spend the money on the others.

I've had the pocket radar since last summer once you get used to it I'll put it up against any radar gun out there. PM if you want to there are pros and cons just like everything out there.

http://pocketradar.com/blog/

I had the opportunity to sit behind the backstop today at a showcase event. They had a Jugs gun set up to continually read pitch speeds. There was also one college scout there with the Stalker Sport. Here is what I saw. The vast majority of the time, both guns had the exact same reading. On several occasions, the stalker was 2 mph faster than than the jugs. On several occasions, the jugs was 1 mph faster than the stalker. I never saw the Jugs more than 1 mph faster than the Stalker. When my son was pitching, he was between 86 & 88 and both guns read the exact same on every single pitch. He pitched to 4 batters, so it was a decent sample. I'm not real convinced there is a big difference between the Stalker Sport and the Jugs.

I've still got to laugh about the time at my son's high school game several years ago and my son and ace of the eventual state 2A champion hooked up in a 1-0 pitcher's duel. I had my stalker behind home plate and the fastballs from both guys were between 84 and 87 the whole game. A man came up to me with some off brand gun and said, "I've been getting them at 71-73, but I think I might be off a little".
I just said, "Guy, does that look like 71 mph?" And he just replied, " Well it doesn't have to be exact!" I just shook my head.

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"A man came up to me with some off brand gun..."

I had one of those years and years ago...



It never got out of the fifties!




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Woody,

I think that's the exact gun he had!

quote:

Originally posted by 2013 Dad:
Anybody have info on the Sports Radar Speed Gun. It seems like an affordable alternative to Stalker and Juggs. I have seen some reviews on HSBBW about the bushnell, but this one. Here is the link.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/re...adar-gun-sr3500.html

Thanks.

Don't waste your time with that gun. It reminds me of a funny story. We had one of those guns at a Litte league all-star event at the "fast pitch" contest on the friday night competitions. Several kids stepped up, payed their money and went out to the mound. The gun, behind the backstop and some 85 feet away was reading 10-14 year old fast balls in the 50-s and some in the 60's. Then, not to be outdone a few HS pitchers stepped in, payed their money and let it rip. First pitch- 72 mph (varsity pitcher BTW), Next pitch- 74 mph. Looked over at the anxious mother of the pitcher and said, "look, that gun isn't even picking up the ball until it is around home plate, just add about 5 mph onto whatever he throws".

So, after all these kids throw, the highest pitch for the little guys is like 55 mph. Then. I tell him (he's the last thrower) to step right up to the fence and throw it 2 feet in front of the gun. He does and it registers well into the 60's his first pitch. He won the fast pitch contest BTW

Don't buy cheap guns.

I bought the pocket radar last fall and it has been very good. Probably won't get the distance as stalker, but if you're near backstop it's amazingly accurate.

When I first got it I went to a local woodbat showcase that was filled with college coaches and guns all over the place. the facility has 4 fields with the backstops literally right next to each other. At each field there was an official scorer with a stalker. I stood right next to him and clocked each pitch for two innings or so. did this on each of the 4 fields.

I'd say close to 90% of the speeds were identical, adn the other 10% were never more than 2mph off - usually 1mph difference. For $195 it's a handly little tool. Was talking to a scout from the white sox who when he saw it, chuckled, reached into his pocket and pulled one out. he thought they were also great. They are also very discrete and with some care, no one will know you're doing anything. Except maybe taking a picture with a cell phone.

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displaying a new speed measurement approximately every ¾ of a second

From their website above, the pocket radar only picks up a reading at the moment you press the button, and then again 0.750 of a second later (pitches are 0.400 to 0.500). This, while accurate, is wildly random and unpredictable from one pitch to the next because of the 5-10 mph velocity drop from the hand to the plate. Therefore, it's useless for most purposes.

If you want to measure improvement for a given pitcher, or compare one pitch to another, or one pitcher to another, it's useless.

If you just want to have some vague idea as to the speed, it's good.

Went to a Giants - A's game and they had a gun set up. It was a Stalker. However they had it set up about 45 degrees off the line of flight of the ball. The readings were quite low.

When the all-star game was in Anaheim they had the Stalkers at the all-star fest set up so close to the throwers that anyone who stepped toward the target and threw hard often didn't register because they were throwing outside the cone of the gun. It worked just fine for the little kids since the lobs would drop into the cone just fine.

BTW, my experience with a JUGS has been that it reads about the same as a Stalker at lower velocities, 0-1 mph faster for high 70s and low 80s and 1-2 mph faster for high 80s and above.

If you are serious about it buy a Stalker. If you want accurate readings but aren't a scout a JUGS will do just fine in most situations. I've seen quite a few college programs use a JUGS. Although there may be perfectly good alternatives those are the only two I've seen work well.

CADad, maybe it depends on the specific gun, I'm not sure. As I stated in my previous post, I saw the Stalker as much as 2 mph higher than the Jugs on several high 70's, low 80's pitches. Jugs was never more than 1 mph higher than the stalker. Many times that was on breaking pitches. My son was at 86-88 and every pitch registered the exact same on both guns. Not one discrepency over 4 batters.

And like you said, I have seen many college programs using the Jugs still. Just don't see a big difference.

quote:

Originally posted by bballman:
CADad, maybe it depends on the specific gun, I'm not sure. As I stated in my previous post, I saw the Stalker as much as 2 mph higher than the Jugs on several high 70's, low 80's pitches. Jugs was never more than 1 mph higher than the stalker. Many times that was on breaking pitches. My son was at 86-88 and every pitch registered the exact same on both guns. Not one discrepency over 4 batters.

And like you said, I have seen many college programs using the Jugs still. Just don't see a big difference.

Yep... this is my experience as well. I have a 3-4yr old JUGS, I purchased this past year in mint condition. Went to several games this year during the HS season where there were a dozen scouts... other games, there would just be 1-2. My JUGS was just as consistent as their Stalker 2 guns...but all of us had good seating/setup spots to take readings. On a given pitch, there might be a 1 mpg difference, but one was not typically recording the higher reading over the other, so if you were to take 50-60 pitches, it would even out.

The Stalker has more features and may indeed be the industry standard now...I didn't see a scout with a JUGS gun, so that must be saying something. For what I paid, I'm pleased with my purchase.

quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:

quote:

displaying a new speed measurement approximately every ¾ of a second

From their website above, the pocket radar only picks up a reading at the moment you press the button, and then again 0.750 of a second later (pitches are 0.400 to 0.500). This, while accurate, is wildly random and unpredictable from one pitch to the next because of the 5-10 mph velocity drop from the hand to the plate. Therefore, it's useless for most purposes.

If you want to measure improvement for a given pitcher, or compare one pitch to another, or one pitcher to another, it's useless.

If you just want to have some vague idea as to the speed, it's good.

Not disputing you, but not my experience while literally standing next to a stalker comparing every pitch. This was over 4 different fields for well over an hour.

Again, just noting my experience. Based on the calculations you posted would the pocketradar be slow?

quote:

Originally posted by jt123:
Based on the calculations you posted would the pocketradar be slow?

Let's say a given pitch starts at 85 mph out of the hand. It slows down to 76 mph at the plate.

The PocketRadar would pick up an accurate reading somewhere along the 76-85 mph continuum. But, you would have no idea where along that line.

Other guns that provide a min/max reading would show 85/76 - you could be reasonably sure this is a good reading since you picked up the 9 mph difference.

A Bushnell gun will show something like 82/77 mph for the same pitch. It's accurate, but it only picked up readings for part of the full pitch distance. While these are the "wrong" readings, at least they are consistent from pitch to pitch and from pitcher to pitcher.

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Your explanation SoS. Once more real slow so I can explain it to this guy.

I can't tell if he's serious or just horsin' around!





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quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
[QUOTE]displaying a new speed measurement approximately every ¾ of a second

I have a pocket radar and only use it this way when the kids are running to first. It becomes a competion among themselves to who gets to the highest mph and to see if anyone is slowing down or running thru first. As for the pitchers speed its as acourate as the jugs and stalker are and the kids dont tend to overthrow because they dont know that a radar gun is pointed at them.

Woody,

I swear that cop has to be just down the road from me in Pasadena, TX with the chemical plant and the cop on horseback.

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You're probably right Three Bagger.

You'd best be careful...once the radar jockey on the horse catches you speeding they send out one of these unmarked units to pull you over!





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