Does anyone know if it makes a difference whether a pitcher is gunned from behind the plate or behind the pitcher? Will the readings be the same? Just curious.
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Makes no difference. Angles do.
We have done that and at times get a faster reading behind . I personally talked with jugs they said arm speed at some point will be faster than the ball speed. I know of a kid who pitches is a 70-71 off the mound but from behind was at gunned at 73-74 at a camp. We do this with 2 jugs guns that read the same 99% of the time.
I could see where a pitcher throwing in the low 70s could be gunned a tiny bit higher from behind, due to the angles. At that speed a pitcher is releasing his fastball at angle upwards, especially on a pitch up in the zone. You'd have to be somewhat above the pitcher in the stands to get the maximum reading from behind the plate. If you happened to be directly behind the pitcher and had the gun a bit below the release point you could get the optimum angle from close up. If anything you are more likely to get lower readings from behind the mound simply because one tends to be closer and it is therefore easier to get a bigger angle error. The thing to remember is that you're only looking at about 1 mph maximum difference unless the angle starts getting fairly big.
More likely the kid had more adrenaline flowing at the camp, but that's a good point about the arm speed potentially being higher just before release.
More likely the kid had more adrenaline flowing at the camp, but that's a good point about the arm speed potentially being higher just before release.
We have a dad using a gun. He sits up in the bleachers. and gets the wildest readings. Can wind blowing the net be a factor?
eta: I'm answering my own question about where to set up. Does this sound right to y'all? I've never used one before.
"Stand at least 25 feet away from the moving object. This helps to ensure that you get a proper reading. How far you stand away will be determined by how far the detection capabilities of your radar gun extends.
Point the gun so that the object is either moving directly toward the radar gun or directly away from the gun. In other words, if you're determining the speed of a pitch, you should stand directly in front of or behind the pitcher so that you can draw a straight line from the gun to the baseball."
eta: I'm answering my own question about where to set up. Does this sound right to y'all? I've never used one before.
"Stand at least 25 feet away from the moving object. This helps to ensure that you get a proper reading. How far you stand away will be determined by how far the detection capabilities of your radar gun extends.
Point the gun so that the object is either moving directly toward the radar gun or directly away from the gun. In other words, if you're determining the speed of a pitch, you should stand directly in front of or behind the pitcher so that you can draw a straight line from the gun to the baseball."
55mom,
In principle, a radar gun could pick up the motion of anything. In actual practice, however, the speed of a net is very small, and it doesn't present much area to reflect the radar back to the gun, which is where the detector is. It is important to place the gun roughly along the line of the ball path. The effect of being off-line is to reduce the measured speed. For example, if the gun were placed 100 feet away from a pitcher (which is typical) and the gun is placed to the side or above the path of the ball, a 1% error in speed would result if the gun were 13 feet away from the direct line. So a 100mph pitch would be measured as 99mph.
This "cosine" effect does not cause erratic readings, just slower readings. The usual cause of erratic readings is trying to use the gun beyond its range. A Bushnell gun is always out of range unless the gun is placed directly behind the pitcher. A Jugs gun is limited in range, but will work at most high school fields, where the backstop is pretty close to the plate. Want to measure from farther back? Get a Stalker.
In principle, a radar gun could pick up the motion of anything. In actual practice, however, the speed of a net is very small, and it doesn't present much area to reflect the radar back to the gun, which is where the detector is. It is important to place the gun roughly along the line of the ball path. The effect of being off-line is to reduce the measured speed. For example, if the gun were placed 100 feet away from a pitcher (which is typical) and the gun is placed to the side or above the path of the ball, a 1% error in speed would result if the gun were 13 feet away from the direct line. So a 100mph pitch would be measured as 99mph.
This "cosine" effect does not cause erratic readings, just slower readings. The usual cause of erratic readings is trying to use the gun beyond its range. A Bushnell gun is always out of range unless the gun is placed directly behind the pitcher. A Jugs gun is limited in range, but will work at most high school fields, where the backstop is pretty close to the plate. Want to measure from farther back? Get a Stalker.
Thank you 3FG. I see you are trying to sneak trigonometry in on me. For shame!! 
I'll look at the brand. I was talking to another parent after I posted and she said the batteries seem to be an issue, that it discharges very quickly. She uses it at practice, but sits behind the catcher right at the net.
The only thing I've learned about radar guns, I've learned here. Bushnell - don't they make binoculars?
I'll look at the brand. I was talking to another parent after I posted and she said the batteries seem to be an issue, that it discharges very quickly. She uses it at practice, but sits behind the catcher right at the net. The only thing I've learned about radar guns, I've learned here.
Bushnell - don't they make binoculars?
3finger,
The Stalker certainly has better range but you are underestimating the range of the JUGS gun. You certainly don't have to be right next to the backstop to get accurate readings.
I've gotten good readings on throws from the outfield while sitting in the stands behind home plate. With most Bushnells you have to be right behind the catcher.
55mom,
In general one has to let the batteries fully discharge before charging them again or their capacity will dimish pretty quickly. Your friend may need to buy some new batteries.
The Stalker certainly has better range but you are underestimating the range of the JUGS gun. You certainly don't have to be right next to the backstop to get accurate readings.
I've gotten good readings on throws from the outfield while sitting in the stands behind home plate. With most Bushnells you have to be right behind the catcher.
55mom,
In general one has to let the batteries fully discharge before charging them again or their capacity will dimish pretty quickly. Your friend may need to buy some new batteries.
The Bushnell is a great gun for 13-14 y.o. travel teams. Buy one off Craigslist for $50 then at the end of the year, you can sell it for $50. The problem is two-fold: 1) You won't get accurate readings except in practice standing behind the pitcher, and 2) Who cares how fast a 13 y.o. throws anyway.
As you get into the h.s. years, you will know who the harder throwers are. Dads and coaches start showing up with Jugs guns and you spy. If your kid is throwing hard--and you can pretty much eye-ball that at age 14/15--take him to a showcase at 16 and find out. Any legit showcase will have a Stalker gun.
At ages 17/18, if your son is throwing hard enough scouts begin showing up with Stalkers. Scribble down the average of the readings and voila! So I guess I'm saying this: As a parent, you don't ever have to buy a radar gun. In fact, it's probably a good idea you don't (in h.s.) because everyone will think you're a little obsessed (which you are, you just don't want to show it)!
As you get into the h.s. years, you will know who the harder throwers are. Dads and coaches start showing up with Jugs guns and you spy. If your kid is throwing hard--and you can pretty much eye-ball that at age 14/15--take him to a showcase at 16 and find out. Any legit showcase will have a Stalker gun.
At ages 17/18, if your son is throwing hard enough scouts begin showing up with Stalkers. Scribble down the average of the readings and voila! So I guess I'm saying this: As a parent, you don't ever have to buy a radar gun. In fact, it's probably a good idea you don't (in h.s.) because everyone will think you're a little obsessed (which you are, you just don't want to show it)!
quote:
Originally posted by Bum:
and 2) Who cares how fast a 13 y.o. throws anyway.
I wholeheartedly agree!
As you get into the h.s. years, you will know who the harder throwers are. Dadsand coachesstart showing up with Jugs guns and you spy.
99.9% Dads than coaches. HS Coaches may at the beginning of season then that's it.
In fact, it's probably a good idea you don't (in h.s.) because everyone will think you're a little obsessed (which you are, you just don't want to show it)!
Ain't that the truth! And the other side of the spectrum are the Dads who SAY their son throws 87-88 easily but has never gunned him! LOL.
YoungGunDad.. I hated talking to those dads because if they asked about my son's velocity I always told them the truth yet somehow their kid was always at least the same velocity or more than my kid. And none of them are still playing ball. 
I'm not looking to buy a gun. I agree - it's silly. We have looked over the shoulder several times and have numbers from scouts. We are good.
The dad has been using a gun just gets some strange readings. I don't know how to use one, so I was just asking.
I guess the reason I asked is that if numbers are reported that aren't right, then the dad and the coach are doing a disservice to the pitchers. I don't think that has happened to our son though.
The dad has been using a gun just gets some strange readings. I don't know how to use one, so I was just asking.
I guess the reason I asked is that if numbers are reported that aren't right, then the dad and the coach are doing a disservice to the pitchers. I don't think that has happened to our son though.
We were sitting behind a pro scout with a Stalker one time. It was a scout team game and each pitcher threw two innings. We were peeking over his shoulder, and when it came time for our LHP to pitch we paid close attention. Two of his fastballs hit 90 and 91.Both were fouled off. Later when we asked the scout that ran the team about it, he said it was more likely the gun was picking up the bat speed, since his top speed throwing had been in the 85-88 range.
iheartbb,
Doesn't sound that likely on foul balls. Was this a kid who looks like he's throwing at the top of his range most of the time or a kid who locates pretty well and looks smooth? What were the readings on the rest of his fastballs that day? Mostly 85-87 or mostly 87-88? When was the last time the scout running the team had gunned him and was it during a game? Lots and lots of possibilities.
Doesn't sound that likely on foul balls. Was this a kid who looks like he's throwing at the top of his range most of the time or a kid who locates pretty well and looks smooth? What were the readings on the rest of his fastballs that day? Mostly 85-87 or mostly 87-88? When was the last time the scout running the team had gunned him and was it during a game? Lots and lots of possibilities.
