Random Thoughts--Installment ONE

Good thoughts, TR, and best wishes for a quick and complete recovery!

TR - Glad to hear you are out of the hospital!

01 - I would add the family to your list. At the end of the day, it is the player and the family who need to make sure that contacts are made and things are followed up.

One thing I would add for the coaches out there, if a program approaches you about a kid to paint a positive picture of that kid if possible. For example, if an upper level coach says he sees something, I am not sure if it is your place to be downgrading him to some lower level. Obviously be honest but tell the best story about your player as possible - kind of like you were attending a job interview for yourself - you certainly would not downgrade yourself in the interview. Also, I believe it is not right for a coach to receive contact from a program and not pass that information along to the family.

02 and 03 - I think are part of the popular culture unfortunately.

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quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
02- The Sense of Entitlement-- this has become a relatively new aspect in the game andf it irks the h e l l out of me---the boy is a LL/Youth league stud , at least in his and his parents mind, and enters HS expecting to be a frosh starter( by the way this happens at the college level as well). There expect to pay no dues. They expect to just walk in and be king of the hill. This won't happen except in a few exceptional instances.

Best wishes and welcome back...

I find this observation fascinating as we just had a thread regarding the new NCAA DI rules (allowing programs to cut/weed out/suggest new environments for existing program players without paying an price as long as the "cutees" are high academic)..

...the seeming consensus in the thread, and among some of our most esteemed posters was that the new rules were fair and simply not worth being concerned about....a small bump in the road...and that best way to avoid this problem (being cut as a soph) was to be smart and make sure that you scouted out a situation and KNEW UNCONDITIONALLY that you went in as a program mainstay from day 1. To "walk in and be king of the hill" from day one.

...the seeming consensus was that working/earning your way into a team over time....paying dues...being willing to play a team role...was, has always been, and is now more than ever...foolish.

Boy, am I ever confused.

44
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O44,
You're not alone. The fact is that #1 often doesn't happen. The fact is that there are kids who have the talent, work hard, play a team role, and get downplayed by their HS coaches to recruiters. After all, playing up a kid you aren't playing would raise a few questions wouldn't it? How do these kids walk in and know exactly what their college situation is going to be?

When I see a kid who was highly rated by PG get a total of 11 innings pitched against mostly non-league opponents during his senior season it kind of makes me wonder how being quiet and working hard puts a kid in position to know where he's going to stand with a strong college team. (Hard to believe but given this school's pitching staff there was actually some justification for the number of innings.) Fortunately for this kid he was seen by pro scouts and is doing well in pro ball and getting far more innings than he did in HS.

When I see, in person, a kid told that he belongs at a lower level NAIA school by another HS coach and then the kid walks on at a D1 and ends up being their Sunday starter as a freshman it kind of makes me wonder. I've heard (only rumors) that the same coach held letters from D1 schools and didn't pass them on to the kid.

Hey TR, get well. See you in PA in a few weeks.

First, TR I hope all is well. I've enjoyed reading your posts for a few years now. Concerning #2 I would say that there's an equal amount of animosity towards incoming kids that are good enough and do not think they're entitled. I'm lucky enough to have a kid that works his tail off all year. He does strength and conditioning, tee work, long toss and a myriad of other baseball activities to the point that I wonder if he has an addiction. He has a core of friends that are the same and they will all walk onto their high school fields this fall and challenge kids their senior. Should they not play because they're freshman, because they haven't paid the mythical dues? I believe that the best player plays regardless of age and the challenge presented by younger skilled players only serves to push to older ones to step up their preparation and performance. I do agree that it's not my place to talk to the coach about it.

quote:

I'm lucky enough to have a kid that works his tail off all year. He does strength and conditioning, tee work, long toss and a myriad of other baseball activities to the point that I wonder if he has an addiction. He has a core of friends that are the same and they will all walk onto their high school fields this fall and challenge kids their senior

Sounds like most the kids I know.

TR nice to see you back. Lets us Know when you are up to taking some heat.

Maybe we know the same kids?

TR hope you get better quickly.

I will tackle 01 since I am going through this with BOF Jr right now. I think first and foremost YOU must have a plan. As a long time friend who was a senior executive at IBM used to tell me “have a plan and work the plan, if you don’t have a plan, then make a plan to make one’

A player must be active and working a plan. Deviations and changes will happen along the way, but you must have a plan and be working it. Without one the results will be totally random, maybe good, maybe not.

Your coaches are part of YOUR plan, you can keep them informed about what you are doing, but do not expect them to work your plan. In fact in most cases your coaches will not know each other and you should not expect them to act in coordination with each other.

The other thing that I believe is important is to get out and play at the highest level you can during the summer. You have to compare yourself against the best of your age group to really know where you stand. While you are doing this you will be building your baseball resume and your reputation will grow upon itself. Plus you never know who will see you while you are out working against the best. This to me is more critical than anything you can do during your high school season. For the life of me I do not get how some HS coaches are demanding that their players play with them during the summer. This to me makes no sense. We are fortunate that my son’s HS coach gets this and could care less if he sees him over the summer.

I have seen first hand that as you build your baseball resume you start to get the benefit of the doubt when you have a bad day. I have seen first hand national level players, who if you did not know who they were, you would not even know they were nationally ranked. I have seen bloggers rant and rave about how good they were, when in fact they were ordinary on that particular day. As you go to more of these national level events and you perform against the best, then you too will get the benefit of the doubt.

But in the end YOU must have a plan and work that plan. Don’t expect a college or pro scout to find you based on your Maxpreps stats.

BHD, so do you agree or disagree that if they walk on the field and challenge older kids for a position they shouldn't get that position because they haven't paid their dues?

quote:

Should they not play because they're freshman, because they haven't paid the mythical dues? I believe that the best player plays regardless of age and the challenge presented by younger skilled players only serves to push to older ones to step up their preparation and performance

I agree that the best players should play. But the problem as Observer 44 pointed out and one that has been pointed out before is some of the rules in the college landscape.
Your kid goes in as a freshmen, doesnt play much first two years unless they are a stud, but then junior or senior year comes and the coaches decide to cut this kid, he hasnt played much, and they found someone they think is better.Where does this kid go now? He is emesshed in the college, he has his friends, likes the school, he cant transfer without sitting out.
What happedned to developong the players, and committment to these young men, many who have worked hard as stated above by many.You can say play the best player, and I agree, but I think college baseball has in some instances lost the vision.
You get on certain blogs and coaches are torn apart for not winning or making it to Omaha.I know that is the goal esp. at the big schools.But you also have several schools that are hard academic schools, that cant just bring in anybody like some of the state schools and then they are supposed to compete.
The goal should be first and formost, a college degree.Any kid who is brought on to a team, that keeps his nose clean, works hard on the field and in the classroom, and is a good player , maybe not a MLB prospect, that kid should not have to worry about being cut his junior or senior year.That is wrong on every level.What happened to developing players.They want the instant gratification at many, not all of the colleges.But with the pressure to win the coaches arent off the hook either, as they will get fired if they dont produce a winning team.
How do you pick the right school, knowing this can happen to any of our kids.It really is a **** shoot.You can study rosters all you want, if you dont perform you wont play.
D1 is a business just as mnay have said before, and when your kids desire is to jump into that fire, he needs to be prepared for what could happen good and bad.
The goal is for our sons to find the school they love,but lets say we do that, your kid is stoked, works hard every day, 7am until 9pm with study hall, good grades, good ballplayer,but he is expendible so he is cut.How do you deal with that?The kid cant leave.
I just think the current flow in D1 college baseball is going away from the best interests of the STUDENT ATHLETE.My son was told 50 if not a hundred by everyone he encountered at his school"you are a student athlete first and formost and we want you to understand that".
Their are many kids this fall who have done their jobs, who will be cut from college rosters, some seniors so they have no options.You tell me how this protects a STUDENT ATHLETE.Maybe that kid has had a scholarship and cant afford to stay at that school without the athletic money, so now he walks away from a great education, and has to go somewhere esle to finish.How does that encourage a STUDENT ATHLETE.
Just a lot ofit is screwed up in my opinion, and my heart goes out to all those young men that will be facing that this fall.many of you will say thats life, well I think that is awful.Recruit right the first time, COACH the kids you recruited and make them good enough.A dn if a few dont measure up, let them finish their careers with some pride of being on the team and getting their degrees.I though this was about an education, but its all about winning.

quote:

...the seeming consensus in the thread, and among some of our most esteemed posters was that the new rules were fair and simply not worth being concerned about....a small bump in the road...and that best way to avoid this problem (being cut as a soph) was to be smart and make sure that you scouted out a situation and KNEW UNCONDITIONALLY that you went in as a program mainstay from day 1. To "walk in and be king of the hill" from day one.

...the seeming consensus was that working/earning your way into a team over time....paying dues...being willing to play a team role...was, has always been, and is now more than ever...foolish.

044,

Not an esteemed poster, not sure I know which thread you're referring to, but I would disagree that the rules are fair. In fact, I believe some of the NCAA rules are very unfair to the student/athletes.

I do think that paying your dues is important in the way you have related, but results will always be different from one case to another.

Education is the key to making good decisions. The student/athlete is at risk for a bad experience if they are going into it blind.

If baseball scholarships were for 4 years rather than one year, recruiting would change drastically. Only then would would paying your dues and being willing to play a team role become vitally important. Problem is... if baseball scholarships were 4 years, it could create problems for some programs in regards to building a winner. Or maybe only the very best recruiters would be the big winners.

For what it is worth, I think a coach should do what he thinks he has to to win.
Unfortunately not all coaches are very good at doing that.
Putting together the best team from the roster is not always that easy to do. Coaches have a difficult situation in evaluating players. I have yet to find a fail proof method.
For example. My son's team had a guy who got 9 innings, He quit and went to a winning D11 program. He was 13-0 with a low ERA. Drafted and played 1.5 seasons A ball with great numbers and was released.
I could tell stories all day of hard working talented players who were cut from college rosters and MiLB teams.
I always went for the money and had no regrets. The BB experience was not great but we had our eyes wide open.
As people have mentioned there is no way you can predict what will happen. It is a **** shoot. You can do all the due diligence and there is no way you can tell from 1 year to the next.
I think many are in for a shock of reality. My son was prepared to come home if he had his scholarship touched.
Look at any college roster and you will see a huge drop out/transfer of players . That is why the rules changed.
I think O44 and Fan make some good points.

TR,

Sorry to hear you were in the hospital - I thought you were busy with your College Select events. I hope you are feeling well.

Good thoughts from many posters in this thread. We may not come up with all the right answers, or even reach a concensus. But it's very useful to have these discussions so that our newer members (and/or parents of the younger players) are made aware. Armed with this awareness, parents and players can do their research and ask the right questions.

Julie

I am sitting in on a College tryout here. 70 kids looking for a roster spot.
I sit with the coaches and I listen to their comments and I can tell you they struggle even keeping track of players. After the 1st day they chop at least 20-25 players. Some have some talent but need work. They won't spend the time and effort because next season they will have 70+ at the tryouts and can pick and choose again. A couple of the coaches have no clue and are out there correcting things they have limited knowledge of. They usually have a contending team because they have reasonable talent to pick from. 1st Exhibition games are Friday morning and cuts aren't finished. Have a bad day and who knows.

I know, first hand, that high school and college coaches can do irreparable harm to a young athlete. How do you get around it? I don't know.

TR: Hope you're feeling better. Good post.

#1: It is a group effort to get noticed. While the upper-echelon players generally have coaches coming to them, players in that mid-range talent tier really need to be pro-active in order to be seen, and that needs to be done in conjunction with supportive parents and coaches. It's pretty easy for a player who believes he's good enough to play to slip through the cracks. Got to go to camps, showcases and send out inquiries to let college coaches knows who you are and where you are.

#2: I believe entitlement has grown in part to the explosion of upper-level travel/showcase baseball. Not that it's the fault of those programs, but the players can get their chests puffed out over being on a really elite team and some of them don't seem to be bashful about letting others know how good they think they are.

#3: There are good parents and bad parents. While I believe there are far more good parents, it's the bad ones who tend to stand out and draw attention to themselves. So it just seems like there are more of them.

As to O44's point, I guess in this fashion college baseball is getting to be a lot like real life. It's not always fair even to the hardest-working kids. Just as there are no guarantees in the job market or with employers anymore, there are none in baseball either. Everything has become a year-to-year proposition with loyalty taking a backseat. The word fit is discussed on this site over and over, and that's why players should work as hard as they can to find the best fit. But even then, it may not work out through no fault of the player's. What really hurts, of course, is that a player has limited time and opportunities to keep playing this game, and when it doesn't work out, it's especially painful.

The best thing about this site is that knowlegable posters like the many folks on here can educate those who are just now starting to go through the process. And they can count on each other for comfort when things don't always work out like you want. I learned so much from reading this site during the recruiting process. It answered so many of my questions and let me know we weren't alone in what we were experiencing.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimnev:
First, TR I hope all is well. I've enjoyed reading your posts for a few years now. Concerning #2 I would say that there's an equal amount of animosity towards incoming kids that are good enough and do not think they're entitled. I'm lucky enough to have a kid that works his tail off all year. He does strength and conditioning, tee work, long toss and a myriad of other baseball activities to the point that I wonder if he has an addiction. He has a core of friends that are the same and they will all walk onto their high school fields this fall and challenge kids their senior. Should they not play because they're freshman, because they haven't paid the mythical dues? I believe that the best player plays regardless of age and the challenge presented by younger skilled players only serves to push to older ones to step up their preparation and performance. I do agree that it's not my place to talk to the coach about it.

Jimnev,
The issue is not that they shouldn't play when they are freshmen if they are better than the upper classmen. The issue is that a parent will complain bitterly if they don't play, whether they're better or not, because the parent almost always thinks Johnny is better than the upper classmen. The ole rose colored glasses syndrome.

Because a kid works hard and plays on a travel team does not entitle him to a varsity spot. If he does get what he wants or expects use it as a learning tool.

If a freshman is better than the other kid the freshman should play. If he is the same as an upper classman, the upper classman should play IMO.


TR, I hope your feeling better.

#1. I agree with ClevelandDad. I player and his family have to do their own work no matter how talented a player is. IMO a PG showcase starts the merry-go-round of national exposure. Mistake #1 for junior.

#2. see words above.

#3. I have seen kids removed from and encouraged to leave a team because of the parents.
I agree with TR, over the top parents are a hinderance to a childs career. No matter what we say, we are not influencing a coach or a recruiter. That's done on the field not in the stands or in a meeting with the coach Monday morning after a tourament.

TR, sorry to hear you were down and out-hope you are on the mend!!!

tr
hope your ok, must be good to be out of the hospital. hadn't read anything from you for a while,i thought you were just being quiet.

TR,

I didnt know you were sick. Hope you are feeling better now and getting some rest!!!

Paul

Nobody knew--I went in for one thing and then found out there was a blood clot in my lung----if it had not been for the infection I went in for they would not have found the clot---so who knows!!!!

It's interesting about entitlement. I think people have a hard time distinguishing the difference between the player with potential and one without. Working hard and waiting your turn is certainly a good m.o. for a player who's potential is either unrealized or unknown, however a different player, one who's potential is deemed as peaked, will encounter greatly different results from the same patience and hard work. Failing to see the difference is not the fault of the coach or the program, so why then should they be penalized for a realistic, at least in their eyes, realization and outcome?

Good thing you went into the hospital for the other thing, becasue you dont always have much time with a clot in your lung.Prayers for your health Thrit.

Thank goodness for our fantastic health care system.

I'm glad the docs patched you up, opened any clogs and cleared up any infections. The Fall season is here along with some of the big tournaments.

On the issue of 02 Feeling Entitled, I lay this on the coach. If a coach has an actual program, he has something to teach each player to raise their level of play to the high school and college varsity as compared to Little League or sandlot. The fine points of reading the pitch location while on defense will teach a player to make a few more plays than at the lower level. These plays can be the difference between greatness and mediocrity.

On offense, coaches should be able to raise the batters level of play as well. Not fix what ain't broken, but fine tune movements or eliminate excess motion.

That sense of entitlement leaves the newcomer quickly when the players who have been with the coach a few years have that acquired edge rather than just playing through attrition.

Coaches without a 'program' or a systematic plan to raise each players' level of play, will have trouble with the newcomer. If the newcomer is comparable or better than the guy he is trying to replace, the coach has not helped his players advance in their level of play.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Paul

Nobody knew--I went in for one thing and then found out there was a blood clot in my lung----if it had not been for the infection I went in for they would not have found the clot---so who knows!!!!

Glad you got that infection!! WOOT!!!

Seriously, happy you are feeling better - and had a positive outcome!!

Fillsfan
Number 2 dealt with players feeling entitled it had nothing to do with parents. Since the subject was brought up though, there are plenty of parents on the other side of this who can't fathom why their son, a junior or senior is not playing while a younger boy does.

I agree with other posters this is great discussion.

Jimnev,
I think that TR brought up the entitlement issue because more than one parent on this site complained about not make this or that team. We adults usually hear things from other adults, not the kids.

And yes, complaining goes both ways. No matter what the grade or age many of parents expect their kids to play even when it isn't warranted.