Rangers Make Substantial Offer to Lee

I guess I wouldn't blame him for chasing the money but I'd sure like to see him stay.

I didn't get to watch the Rangers play all during the regular season but had a blast following them through the post-season.

I'd love to pay more attention to the Rangers in 2011.

When a pitcher is in his 30's the most likely way to get back to a World Series is sign with the Yankees. With the kind of money involved I'm having trouble seeing the difference in one year or ten million versus following your heart. Does Lee want the best odds of playing in the Series. How does he see quality of life issues in the DFW area versus metro New York? His life is going to be the same whether he plays for 120M or 140M.

Texas does not have a state tax which is worth a lot in his income bracket....plus cost of living, etc etc. It adds up to be a lot.

I'm still hoping for a Cliff Lee Christmas! We'll know soon enough...... GED10DaD

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
When a pitcher is in his 30's the most likely way to get back to a World Series is sign with the Yankees.

I don't see that rule of thumb being true of the next 10 years. Rangers have a better major league roster and a better minor league roster right now. And the Yankees' major league core is much older. Rangers come out on top by this measure and by the quality of life measure. They will probably be a close 2nd in dollars. Then the decision on how to weigh those come down to how Mr. and Mrs. Lee value them.

This situation is interesting to me. I suspect Nolan Ryan with his strong personality, pitching knowledge and charisma will pull out all the stops on this one. Can Cliff tell him no? What pitcher wouldn't want a close long term relationship with a guy like Ryan?

On the other hand; if it weren't Texas and Nolan Ryan on the other side, I would bet all my money that Cliff Lee will go where the money is..... he know's that he's holding all the cards right now.

We will see.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
Texas does not have a state tax which is worth a lot in his income bracket....plus cost of living, etc etc. It adds up to be a lot.

At $160M, what difference is that gonna make? Salaries at this level are more about ego than a state income tax.

Tax Impact = ~10% of total contract value...minimum.

10%? Our state income tax is 3.07%. The equation is simple .... How much did you make? You owe 3.07%.

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
When a pitcher is in his 30's the most likely way to get back to a World Series is sign with the Yankees.

I don't see that rule of thumb being true of the next 10 years. Rangers have a better major league roster and a better minor league roster right now. And the Yankees' major league core is much older. Rangers come out on top by this measure and by the quality of life measure. They will probably be a close 2nd in dollars. Then the decision on how to weigh those come down to how Mr. and Mrs. Lee value them.

The Yankees have the money to change any situation over two years of free agency. Quality of life is in the eye of the beholder. I once lived in northern NJ outside NYC and loved it. That was coming from southern California. It doesn't take long past the GWB to be in the country. One plus the Rangers have is Lee being from Arkansas.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
10%? Our state income tax is 3.07%. The equation is simple .... How much did you make? You owe 3.07%.

The NY state income tax rate as of Feb 1, 2010 for individuals over $200k is 7.85% per the Tax Foundation. NY city personal income tax rates are 3.648% on amounts over $90k. I'm not a tax guy nor do I live in NY. I'm pretty sure Lee will make more than $200k. I'm not sure if that state rate includes or excludes the city rate.

On quality of life, I was speaking to the Lee's situation...which they have said Texas is much more favorable than NY with their kids, family, preference of living in Arkansas, etc.

I have not followed the Lee progress much just following this thread, but I would not be surprised if he took a significantly lower top $$ value of contract from Texas over NY, because of the tax, cost of living, and quality of life issues. If I recall his wife was not treated too well in NY, and if she is anything like my wife she will have a dar n long memory...

Cost of Living Comparison....

$25,000,000 in NY, NY is the same as $14,523,381 in Dallas, TX

He's not going to ignore that difference on a contract value over >$140 million.

http://www.bestplaces.net/col/...51000&city2=54819000

Ballplayers salaries are allocated to the states where they actually play the games.

So, only about 1/2 the games would be subject to tax in the state 'where the player lives."

Yes, ballplayers file a state income tax return in every state they play.

So, living in a state where there is no state or city tax is a large advantage, but both sides of the negotiation are aware of that fact.

I realize that...so it's a 20% difference...significant.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Quality of life is in the eye of the beholder. I once lived in northern NJ outside NYC and loved it. That was coming from southern California. It doesn't take long past the GWB to be in the country. One plus the Rangers have is Lee being from Arkansas.

As you know, ballplayers with familiies who play for NY sports teams typically live in the NY Metro area like Northern & Central NJ, Long Island, Westchester and Orange Counties in NY State so they can raise their families in well-to-do suburban towns.

quote:

So, living in a state where there is no state or city tax is a large advantage, but both sides of the negotiation are aware of that fact.

This will likely be made up, and then some, by the added endorsements that would come Lee's way by being a Yankee.

Worth a shot to emphasize though.

You guys are right about there being great areas in NY. But you're defining quality of life in your terms, not the way the Lee's have. The Lee's live in Arkansas. That won't change. The quality of life they are measuring is how the team he plays for fits with that.

The Lee's have kids in school for half the baseball season. Texas affords them the ability to live at home all year long (or at least most of it) and still let Cliff have time at home with his family/extended family DURING the season. Money can't buy that in NY. Ultimately, I think their decision will be how much they value that.

Personally, I think at some point its going to be a "PR" issue for Lee as far as How much is enough?

I dont begrudge him one bit for trying to get his money but really...just how many Brinkes trucks backed up to his house does he really need?..BTW I am a fan of capitalism...again, kudos to him for trying to get what he can get but at some point dont you affect the clubs ability to make the team better in other areas?

Do Ryan and Greenberg just hand him the keys to the stadium? Rangers already basically did this once with A-Fraud. Yes, the team wasnt near the competitor this one is and Lee would likely be the last piece to the puzzle but at some point it becomes a turn off.

I am of the opinon that his best Ranger days are behind him...go for Greinke(sp?) and save the cash for existing players and other needs in the off season or to sign a stud player during the season.

/not a Lee hater just trying to be realistic.

I wonder what the Rangers have dangled in front of Lee with this "menu" of options approach too. What if they say, Cliff we'll do a 2 year deal at $60m-$70m. You'll set a new standard. You know how salaries are escalating. Why lock yourself down. Do 2 years then reup at high rates in 2 years off this higher base. It addressed the ego angle, cost of living angle, being close to home angle, doesn't tie up the Rangers for 7 years, doesn't tie up Lee for 7 years. Never know...

Nope..You never know. Right now, I'd say it's 50-50 he winds up on either one of these teams.

My bet is Lee will stay a Ranger, even if Rangers offer him a pkg 30 million less than the Yankees. Too many positives to play out of Arlington, lease a home or big condo nearby (pay no property taxes to state of TX), then be within an hours private plane flight of Hope, Arkansas & his family & farm.

I have to agree with RJM. If I were Lee in this exact situation I would have to go Yankees.
Most likley his final contract and shot at greatness.

quote:

Originally posted by cball:
I would have to go Yankees.
Most likley his final contract and shot at greatness.

Greatness = Loosing to the RedSox the next three years. Actually the Rangers have a better shot the next couple than the Yankees.

In anycase it will be an interesting decision.

Even beyond the next couple of years, BOF. There's a reason the Yankees feel Lee is a sign at all costs and the Rangers don't.

The Rangers must leave money to lock up Hamilton. I'm hearing that Michael Young might be on the block in order to make a bid for Beltre. As much as I like Young as a leader and consistant hitter, I would do that if possible. Young is a statue at third base.

This hole "bidding war" process has become unsavory. Save the money. Pitching means everything and the Rangers are to be applauded for their efforts but there is no need, regardless of the infusuion of new money, to break the bank for this guy. As long as no one else in our division gets him we will be fine. Go for Greinke and look for a power hitting 3B. Make Young a utility infielder\DH if we can afford to keep him an dbring on Beltre otherwise, Thanks for the Memories.

Allegiance to aging veterans with hefty contracts is what has gotten the Cowboys in there predicament. Business is business..doesnt mean we arent thankful for Youngs, or a Guererros service but its a new season.

Most of the time I would say that it's going to cost too much in prospects or young players to trade for a guy like Greinke but when it comes to anything other than drafting, the KC general manager Drayton Moore is a knucklehead, so sharp guys like Ryan and Daniels might be able to pull one on him. You know offer him Francouer...oh that's right, he already signed Francouer and Melky, those two on base machines.

Interesting development. If the Yankees have the "winning bid", there would be no discussion about uping the offer. Before the tone from the Yankees was they would without a doubt sign Lee. Now the Yankees are saying they don't need to sign him? I thought the Yankees could spend unlimited amounts to sign anyone they wanted? Here they are saying no more. Sounds like they are trying to make a soft landing for what they know will be a loss....

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-...ews/story?id=5914684

That interview sure doesn't portray the usual Yankee confidence does it. Kind of whistling in the dark. But who knows except Mr Lee?

Word is Cliff Lee is going to the Phillies....

Darn, was hoping the Rangers could keep him on board.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5917145

quote:

Right now, I'd say it's 50-50 he winds up on either one of these teams.

It was 50-50-50 he would sign with the Phillies - Yogi Berra

It's the year of the stealth acquisition. Out of nowhere Gonzalez is traded. Crawford and Lee go to teams not even considered actively in the running.