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16 replies

Reaching Velocity Max

S Seeler10+ posts
Another foray into what seems to be a popular, and sometimes over scrutinized topic....velocity. And though, I'm guessing my question wont prompt a definitive answer, any opinions would be appreciated.

My nephew (18 yrs old, 6'1) has aspirations to play pro-ball. He is currently committed to a D1 JUCO in Florida and hopes to finish at a 4-year college.

Pro scouts have been very complementary about his mechanics, movement, make-up etc., but have indicated that he needs to add "a few more" mph to his fastball. He was throwing mid-80's at the time. In January, down in Florida, he was topping out at 88-89. He has gained 2 mph in the last 6-months and 4-5 mph in the last two years (all stalker readings). I suspect that some of these late gains are attributable to the fact that he joined an elite 19U team at the age of 13 as primarily an infielder but didn't start to pitch regularly until he was 16-17.

I've heard that, for the most part, pitchers reach their velocity max by 16-17 yrs old. So my question is... based on his progress at this late age, what are his chances of gaining those extra mph needed to be a viable pro prospect? Is he likely to soon hit a road-block or does velocity gains tend to trickle off incrementally?
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TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
I am not sure where you get the info that a pitcher reaches his velo max at 16-17. That may be for some and for others it comes later. Mine made gain in college and just recently and he is 22.

Also depends on your pitcher and what he projects. It's all about future potential.

What he tops out at and what zone he lives in and his off speed pitches, his use of his FB, how many pitches he throws and can he pitch (or just throws) most likely will be factors in getting a chance to play in pro ball.
S Seeler10+ posts
TPM,

I believe I have seen threads on this board where it was suggested that most velocity gains occur before the ages of 16-17, but I'm sure that was a gross generality.

Size wise I'm not sure how much "filling out" he has to do as he already has a fairly athletic build.

As for pitching, he really prides himself on pitching rather than throwing. His control is ever-improving, he throws a tight curve and is constantly working on his change and slider. He has recieved favorable feedback on his secondary pitches and other intangibles from PG, recruiters and scouts. As such, it would seem that his lack of velocity might be the primary concern at this point.

Curiously, his cruising speed rarely deviates more then 1-2 mph from his max. Not sure what it means in terms of projection, but I would guess that it's a good thing.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
You first stated that you heard a pitcher reaches his velocity max by 16-17.

This is not necessarily true.

Above you have stated that you have heard the biggest gains occur before 16-17, which yes can be true.

My sons biggest gains was between 15-17, at 18 he could hit 91-93 and cruise 88-89, now he can hit 96 and his cruising speed is around 91-92-93. He's 22. He also did a lot of filling out, from 190-211 and that has made a difference. His added velo didn't come from the arm, rather than tremendous strength in the lower body.

Also have seen many pitchers not being able to touch 90 going into college but 90+ three years later. A lot of that is fixing mechanics and conditioning.

Here's my suggestion, listen to what the scouts have told you, and only worry about what you can control. A pitcher's velocity is not something that you can control.

Make sure he throws regularly, watch his innings and pitch count and a good conditioning program (especially lower body) for in and off season and work on the FB.
RobVRobV100+ posts
I think the idea that a player reaches his max velocity at that those ages possibly originates from the idea that without doing any "extra work" to gain velocity, a kid would be at his max around that age (although I would think 18 would be more like it).

I could be wrong though. Either way, I don't believe it for the most part (if a kid is willing to work hard at making velocity gains).

A lot goes into what determines a players "potential" max velocity would be and when it occurs (maturity - both physical and mental, mechanics, etc).

I still believe that you can "teach" how to gain velocity, by just plain old hard work and learning to become more efficient with your throwing process.

In other words...don't quit working on it. You never know when you'll make some gains.
Last edited by RobV
S Seeler10+ posts
Thanks for all your input and encouragement. Over the last year, in particular, my nephew has worked diligently on and off the field and has be very encouraged by the results.

Bum...my nephew has been offered very positive feedback from scouts regarding all facets of his game except for his velocity. One scout told him that he needed to "gain a few extra mph" to be a viable prospect. So my question was if measurable velocity gains can be made after highschool. Perhaps it was a naive question, but regardless, I'm encouraged to learn that he answer is indeed yes.
BumBum1,000+ posts
Seeler, if he's 89 Stalker at 18--even if that's top-out speed--he's right where he needs to be. You have nothing to worry about. Bum, Jr. at 18 probably tops out 88-89 (LHP).

For pro interest RHP's should be low-90's for mid-to-high round interest. 90+ for low-to-mid round interest. Subtract 2 for lefties. But let him go to college and get the velocity he needs! If he's 89 now, perhaps in a few years he'll be 92-93+. Plus he'll be more polished.
Last edited by Bum
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Seeler,
The average gains slow down as they approach 18 but that's just the average. I don't have any proof but my guess is that a lot of pitchers pick up velocity in college due to better conditioning programs, pitching coaches, etc. than are available at most HS's.

BTW, if anyone wants to guarantee my 16yo 88-89 on a Stalker at 18yo I'll take it with a smile and any velocity gained after that would be gravy.
Last edited by CADad
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
TR is right, but since there's no way of knowing what category you fall into it until you reach your max velocity and stay there for a long time it makes sense to keep working at it. It wouldn't surprise me if there were people who told Bum that Bum Jr had no chance of ever getting into the high 80s.
Last edited by CADad
BumBum1,000+ posts
CADad, wow.. are you ever right on that one! Even to this day, because of his size people assume he's throwing 80-82. The local blogs are brutal! If you've ever seen Bum, Jr. pitch I think it is because of his fluid delivery, diminutive size, and long stride.

But the truth. Last night he was cruising 86-88 and topping out 89 (Stalker). He hit that top-out speed 5 or 6 times. 88 a lot. There were a bunch of MLB scouts there, and he was called for an in-home visit tonight. Won, 1-0 against the #1 rated prospect in the Pacific NW. BTW another 16 k's now 91 in 38 1/3 innings.

I've come to learn that velocity can fool you. Some guys look like they throw fast but throw slow. And some throw fast even though they look like they throw slow. Does that even make sense? It does to me.

BTW.. CADad, don't trade the journey your son is taking for ANYTHING. It's true a lot of people underestimated Bum, Jr. along the way but I see now that this was a good thing. It made him work harder, and when he got there it was even sweeter.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Bum,
I had another kid on my teams that I would've sworn threw 5 mph faster than CASon. When I'd catch him I'd swear he was throwing 5 mph faster. Kids were intimidated by him. When I used the gun, he was consistently all of 1 mph faster than CASon. As a result, CASon, who had some movement did better against the better hitters and this kid just dominated the weaker hitters while many of them would put the ball in play against CASon.
BumBum1,000+ posts
CADad, I don't know where this velocity thing will top out, but it's definitely getting interesting. If Bum, Jr. is cruising 86-88 and topping 89 in 50 degree weather (it's usually 65-70 now) I'm hoping that's 88-90 topping 91 when its 75 in May.

But even more amazing than his velocity this year is how he has put it all together. Movement. Breaking pitches. Location. The ability throw 120+ pitches and maintain speed. All of it. His last start he threw 32 balls and 88 strikes. (I'm the volunteer scorekeeper.) In the 5th inning, he threw exactly one ball!

His strikeout totals are confounding everyone in the league. Set a Washington state record with 21 the other day. Followed that up with 14 in 6 innings and 16 in 7. Now has 91 in 38.33 innings. Against the top 3 teams with a combined record of 40-8 he has 46 k's in 19 innings and 2 shutouts with a only 1 run allowed. The #1 pro prospect in this area (famous last name) was 0-2 with 2 k's.

But still.. where are the scouts? Sometimes I wish we were living in California!
Last edited by Bum
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Bum,
Scouts would be nice but it sounds like his best bet is to go to college and win, then to go pro as a proven winner. Kind of like Enright at Pepperdine who was an amazing strike thrower.

The strikeout totals are just incredible. We've had some kids come out of our league who went to top D1s and did very well their freshman seasons and some who went straight to pro ball but none of them posted strikeout totals anywhere in the ballpark of what your son has done.
Last edited by CADad

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