Record

It is not a court of law. We are talking about record books, not a criminal record (although Baroid may end up with one of those also).

If they can put an asterisk beside Maris, they can strike these cheaters from the books. And they should.

Indians08, with all due respect sir, I think you are more than a little bit out of line with your comments about a specific HS. I live only about 2,500 miles closer to that HS than you do and I'm not aware that they're known to condone the use of illegal substances. I'm pretty involved in baseball out here, and even though I don't know a lot of things (just ask my wife and kids ) I haven't heard anything about illegal substance use being condoned by any school out this way. I can't speak for your wonderful state, though. I do know that its pretty difficult to know what goes on from the other coast.

Perhaps you should pick a local school from your area to cast stones upon.

My dad is sir...Im bill

It was actually a friend of mine who lived in (edited) who sent me a bunch of articles a few years ago. I will try and find them and send them over

I didnt take out a map this morning and move my finger around and pick a high school to talk about sir

Indians08:

I look forward to seeing your source - for I too found the comments about a specific high school out of line.

Like 06, I have not heard anything along those lines - and follow CA HS baseball very closely.

08

Look, I am going to nip this one in the bud. I deleted the high school reference. Our general policy is not to discuss amateur ball players in this manner. Who knows who does what and this is not the place to cast aspersions.

The original poster's point that some HS athletes (in all sports) are being drawn into steroids is accurate, however.

And there have been cases of HS coaches turning a blind eye or even encouraging their use. {Not mentioning any names here, so keep your finger off that delete key, pilgrim. }

Texan - I don't think anyone needed that clarified - certainly I didn't need it clarified. His general point was left untouched. The part about calling out a specific high school by name as a sauce factory was inappropriate. If your son went there and he was clean you wouldn't be so cavalier about that comment.

Well, excuse me!

Actually, Texan son is certain that some kids at his HS are using steroids. Fortunately, Texan son is smart enough to build his strength the old fashioned (as well the longest lasting & safe) way.

So, no, I wouldn't take it personally if someone said that athletes at Texan son's HS were using steroids. I know he is clean. He knows he is clean.

Odds are that there are some athletes at the school that was named (but shall now remain unnamed) that are on steroids.

And for the record, I never criticized your decision to delete the HS's name.

Some folks just can't take a little humor, I guess.

Back to the original question...should the records be deleted or astericized? (Did I invent a word there?)

While I am no Barry Bonds or Mark McGwire fan, I do NOT believe they deserve an asterisk. To my memory, while using steroids may have been illegal without a doctor's prescription, they were not against MLB rules until a couple of years ago. I very much dislike that those two men own (or owned) coveted records, but I do not think you can take them away.

They are what they are...the most home runs hit in a season by a baseball player. It ain't the end of the world.

Cleveland:

Thanks...

08

I have stated this many times and yes, I'm a Cardinals fan and so... If a person is doing any activity that isn't illegal nor against the rules as they were at the time they were playing then how can their accomplishment be lessened? Also, how many of these players today are free of creatine , suppliment enhancement ...? I'd bet none! Would we then someday also throw their achievements out the door?

JB - I believe the word you invented would be asteriskized [although you were awful close to ostracized, which works for me too!! and is easier to pronounce ]

The fact that there are coaches and schools that, in this day and age, continue to encourage [either actively or passivley, by turning a knowing blind-eye] illegal supplement use, is abhorable.
The fact that our homer run records may fall/have fallen to suspected users of illegal performance enhancing drugs, is a **** shame. it's a great game we have; it would be nice to keep it that way.

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
To my memory, while using steroids may have been illegal without a doctor's prescription, they were not against MLB rules until a couple of years ago.

So, it would be okay for a fielder to shoot a runner to keep him from advancing? There is nothing in OBR prohibiting use of firearms, after all. If it is illegal according to the laws of the land, so what?

Are you sure you don't want to think through that reasoning a tad more?

Well, do you wanna ban records for drunk drivers? Prescription drug addicts? Gamblers? How about for wife-beaters? Speeders?

I'm not meaning to get ridiculous here...but the "crime" was not a baseball crime at the time (hey, that rhymes! ).

I really, REALLY dislike having those guys own records...but just what is it you can do about it? It is what it is.

Wow...looks like this started some fun!

One of my points was the topic of steriods is bigger then the MLB. How many kids idolized Sammy Sosa...and Big Mac? Young kids look up to these guys and may tell themselves hey if they did it I could do it. Palmero was the talk of the league of what a big man he was to stand up to congress....How many college and hs kids have the thought in the back of their mind? How many guys that are in AA waiting for a shot have thought about?

Quoting my father, who is old school...he says things like "How did Teddy Williams ever hit .400 with no batting gloves, no hitting lessons and no under armour" and the same questions hold true...how did so many people do well without it?

Wasnt the policy in the minors that if you got caught you had to go to a class? This is something baseball has turned its head on

I didnt mean to "expose" or point out any high school kids....but lets be honest...it goes on everywhere....and for the record, I had never heard of the hs i mentioned until the articles I read....so I didnt make it up.

I was a big mac fan, I never liked sosa because he was to selfish...to think the word hero was associated with those two is sick!

what could we do? Nobody wanted Maris to break Ruth's record, so they did what they could to belittle it....I dont ever want to see the name Bonds, McGwire or Sosa in the record books......I know this is in the court of baseball, but maybe it should go as far as lie detector tests!

For now....I hope Ryan Howard gets to 62..and I hope that all those players that cheated the game...get cheated in the end....it will all come back to them someday....Palmero, Sosa, Big Mac all got it hard....now its Bonds's turn

by the way...those who understood my point...that its a shame its trickled down to the hs levels...thank you...I wasnt trying to attack a school

jbb, when that illegal act has direct influence upon what happens on the field, then yes, I want to ban the records.

Drunk driving doesn't directly affect what goes on during the game. Neither does spousal abuse. {And I do have problems with those practices.} Steroids do.

Don't want to start a big fuss. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Count me as a HUGE Roger Maris fan!

PGStaff - Yeah, me too.

I think he goes directly into the HOF...now.