Recruited walk-on

boris,

Just my opinion, but if the school has no regard whatsoever for the player, wants him to commit to their program without the commitment being mutual ... well, I just don't see it.

If it is his dream school, then I suppose he might want to "lock out" any conflicting offers. My personal opinion is that if he gets a REAL offer from a school that turns out to be a better fit, academically, athletically, scholarshipwise, then I would reconsider.

All this assumes we're not talking about a DIII where there are no athletic scholarships. I would put that in a slightly different category.

A walk on is only a tryout and no guarantees. You have to apply and get accepted by the school and pay all tuition, room and board out of your pocket. This is an offer he would not be bound by and you have started the clock. Look for a school that will give you an offerand a scholarship if they won't.
Usually the school has used up their money. Some people do make teams as walk ons but I wouldn't bank on it.

boris, good question

my take pal, is that you are NOT OFF THE MARKET
what exactly took you off?? unless YOU will consider NO other choices

in fact your "non offer" is - "enroll here" and
YOU needn't go thru walkon tryouts,
tho after fall workouts even scholarship players have NO guarantees - some may transfer, some redshirt, some cut

you need to accept that you've been offered a shot at fall practice - nothing more -
so don't burn bridges or close off other input
amazing things still can happen

JMO

good luck



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quote:

Originally posted by boris:
I guess what I am getting at is that I firmly believe there is a "moral" obligation to take yourself "off the market" once you indicate that you will attend a school.

boris - Thats an admirable position to take on this...but I really don't see anything immoral about leaving your son on the market even if he says "yes" to the "offeror"...unless that is that there is absolutely no way, no how that he will attend another school...in which case you follow your conscience.

Honestly, I'm not sure why a school is "offering" this at this point in time...from the limited knowledge I have on this, these offers are more typically made in the Spring.

As a College Coach, I laugh at recruited walk-ons...they mean nothing typically! I laugh because I see most of those kids either not make the team, or transfer after their first semester or so because they are not happy. See other links, the thought is roughly 60-70% of DI baseball players transfer after their first year? I wonder how many were "guaranteed" a spot?

boris - I can give you a fair number of counterexamples to VJC Baseball from around here. True, it is a tough road...but it can and does work.

BTW, I thought college coaches were not allowed to post on public boards?

Boris, The player you've described is still open to receive any "real" offers legally and morally and IMO should consider them. Like Justbb said, I think this is a strange time of year for a kid to be considering walking on - did the coach tell him that all his scholarship money was already gone? If there's a "walk on" spot there now, it'll be there later, wouldn't you think? The only way I would have allowed my son to consider this is if it was absolutely his dream school and he knew beyond all other offers and scenarios it's where he wanted to go.

Justbaseball,
Why wouldn't a college coach be able to post on a public boards? As long as guys are not being contacted to help my team individually without following the proper procedures there is no issue. I find it very important that some of the people posting get a point of view from a coach, who has seen many of the situations discussed here and to give reason to them. You are correct in that there are of course examples of "recruited walk-on" success, however there are many more examples of those that simply do not work out. Recruiting is an ugly game and unfortunately 18yr old kids are caught in the middle and do not know what to think or do because many coaches in my profession are not as upfront and honest as they should be!

VJC,
glad to have your input. It's also nice to hear a college coach refer to recruiting as "an ugly game". Having just gone through it with my son, that's exactly how I felt. Sharks and Mermaids. Some guys were just great and others so full of themselves and lies....It's almost a crime at times that these 17 yr old kids are preyed on by adults.
These message boards help tremendously. Having a well informed son and being a well informed parent definitely helps. Getting a coaches input along the same lines....Priceless..

I agree Coach Merc. One of the good things about this site is there are views and opinions from parents with many different thoughts, players from differing levels of ability, coaches from varying arenas as well, including several college coaches. Hearing the different viewpoints can be very helpful for our boys making the journey at 12 years old, college, or pros. I'm thankful for them all.

It should not come as a surprise to anyone here that many college coahces read and post on this site but most do not give themselves away.

We truly have a melting pot of backgrounds and personalities when it comes the baseball on this site

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Boris…..

As usual I see this thing a little differently..

Am back to my age old position, while it is really great that lots of players signed this week...the vast majority did not.

There are still tons of players out there who are hanging onto that baseball dream by a thread. I think it is myopic to tell a player with little else that such offers are not worth considering.
For many of these players a recruited walk on might mean a great deal. Yes it is not a ride, but you are actually on someone's radar, and it’s better than nothing.

I too believe in the “moral obligation” as well, but to me the moral obligation is to be up front, clear and communicate.

That being said I would do three things.

First, Now that the early signing period is over coaches should be a little less stressed. I would call the coach and clarify exactly what a recruited walk on means for him. There is discrepancy from program to program. How does it differ from a straight walk on? Does it mean help with entrance into the school? Typically what is the chance at that particular school? How often to such recruits make the team? You need to know exactly what the term recruited walk on means to that school in order to proceed..

Second, unless that recruited walk on is at my son’s dream school, I would most likely let the coach know that while I very much valued the offer, and am at this point planning to accept it, out of the best interested of my son we know such offers are tenuious and would have to continue working the recruiting process. I would assure him that we would keep in communication and if my son got a spring/summer offer we would let him know before committing elsewhere.

Third, I would continue playing the spring/summer game. Looking for opportunities. I would be clear open and honest with all.

Hope this helps.

Coach Merc...you just stated my argument for why a player ought to be heavily involved in the recruiting process but not taking the lead...too many sharks. How can we expect a 17 year old to deal with heavily agendized adults?

JB...I for one really value the input of the college coaches on this site. Would love to see more.

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VJC Baseball - Actually I really like to hear the input of coaches...wish there was more too...it was really only a question as I had heard coaches were not supposed to post...my bad.

I agree with your point about it being a very long shot to get playing time. I was merely trying to say that it was possible. Thats all.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Thank you all very, very much for your input so-far. It is good to read the differing opinions and the reasoning behind those opinions. Let me clarify a bit.

First, the school is a very, very good fit, academically, location, size, etc. Even without baseball, it is a good school for him. In fact, during this process, I asked him specifically, what would he prefer...this school where he is a "recruited walk-on" (which I will better define below) or a starter for a school that does not match as well regarding size and academics. He stills said that this school was a better fit.

I know for a fact that the school had limited money available and that money was committed earlier. However, the school was in need of players at my son's position. The head coach told him that (1) he would be one of his top 10 pitchers, (2) that the fall was not a try-out...he was on the team, including the spring traveling team, and (3) that he would be housed with other baseball players. Obviously, playing time would depend upon performance.

His high school coach believes this is a great opportunity for him, both for baseball and academic fit. The school plays in a very competitive D1 conference too.

I know this all sounds very good, but, I am still somewhat bothered that "no" athletic money was offered (i.e. books) which, to me, would indicate a greater commitment by the school. However, the coach was very proactive in assisting him with "academic" money.

This all being said, I don't know if this changes your take on this. I am new to this recruiting game and just want to make sure that I have sufficient information to assist my son in making a good decision...which, in my opinion, he has. Again, thanks to all...I love this site.

Boris

I look a situation like yours with a different slant

In this day and age with the NCAA breathing down the schools necks regarding academics and graduation rates, academic money is a better committment on the schools part, at least in my eyes.

The coach knows he has a player who "vaporize"
on him in the first 6 months.

it also allows the coach to bring in a lesser academic studnet who might be a great ball player with his baseball money

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder !!!1

boris - Most schools utilize every avenue they can with respect to financial aid to maximize their coverage. With limited scholarship slots in baseball, they use athletic, academic and need-based aid to make the equation work. I am guessing from your post that your son is a very good student...that is really a very good thing and I believe the coach is doing his job by utilizing that to improve his program.

Add that to the fact that the "fit" is very good if baseball were not in the picture and it sounds like you've got a good match.

I'm with TR...I think its a good thing.

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Boris...

You're doing a fine job looking into the details and considering the options. Academics.. athletic...

If the coach is straight up this looks to me like one of those dream situations where it is more like a scholarship without the athletic money than a classic recruited walk on.

Nice Work.

JB...I sort figured as much. Knew you would value coaches input...didn't sound like you...

Boris...with the clarifications in your second post....sounds like a good thing. Especially the way your son feels about the school. The key is the Coach...and his word. Don't know the answer to that....

Academic money can often bring more dollars than athletic....good luck.

Am I missing something here? I would think there would be a lot of walkons, some recruited, in all college programs.

NCAA currently allows 11.7 scholships for a college baseball team.

The active roster, I think, usually has around 24 guys on it.

The team also has a lot of others on the team who are not on the active roster.

Most of us know you have to be a star to get even a 1/2 scholorship offer, you could say nearly everyone is a walkon, some get a little bit more of a discount than others.

Boris, You've got lots of thoughts and opinions here. Bottom line, this is a decision that you and your son will have to make. IF you and son feel it's his dream school and that's where he wants to go no matter what - then it's a deal. IF you don't feel like he can answer yes to that - I still say there's too much time left to be promising something like this to a coach. I like Observer's advice.

My son was offered a walk on after being recruited by his dream school. He had an unofficial visit and received constant recruiting contact. It was late in the year and the school had over signed JUCOs. They said they had no money left and urged him to walk on.
I phoned and asked exactly what does that eentail.
He told me I had to pay all 1st semester and enrole my son. The clock starts. He comes out for fall tryouts and if he makes the roster he still gets no athletic money for that year. Barring that offer of walk on he would help set him up in a JUCO in their scouting area. We thanked him and got busy looking at his second choice. To say there is 1 good fit is strange with all the great schools out there. If baseball is not that important then do the tryout. If it is get looking.
Most schools from what I hear have a few walk ons. Some do succeed but do you want to take the risk. We were shocked to find out how many were trying out for roster spots and the travel roster. We never had a clue. We always thought that if you got a scholarship for ball you just had to compete for playing time.
If ball is important find a coach who atleast wants your son on his team and is willing to commit.

obrady ... I think that the average D1 program has about 35 players ... of that, according to the NCAA, about 25 receive some kind of athletic assistance.

There are programs out there that have way less than the max 11.7 scholarships funded. These programs may only have 3-5 scholarships total to spread out among their 35 players.

Yes ... there is such a thing as a recruited player who is a non-scholarship player and every bit a part of the team as someone receiving a partial ride ...

... BUT ... there is no NLI involved. There is no reason to stop looking. If you feel that your player would be happy at that school, tell the coach that, but keep your options open. Unless an NLI is signed, there isn't any commitment either way.