Recruiter Evaluations

How many coaches have you contacted? Remember he is a 2011 ....coaches can't talk to him yet. Send out the emails letting them know where he can be seen and a coaches number so they can verify his ability.

We sent out about 50 packages. The majority of the comments are coming from the scouts we have encountered at these events.

The more I am around this, the more I believe that velocity is a key ingredient to get pitchers noticed. If he could get up to 87-88 it would make a big difference, I bet. Since I have I never seen your son play, I have no idea if this would be difficult, but it doesn't seem like much for a kid that size. At his age, it is likely to happen naturally.

Greg Maddux survived the majors throwing in the 80s.A good pitcher can do very well if he has a fewdifferent pitches, and great location of his pitches.2011 is 2 years away, he has lots of time to get stronger and develop.

Velocity helps but he doesn't have to hit 90 to get noticed as a 2011. A couple more mph will get him some notice especially if it is combined with good pitchability.

Sound like he is right in there with his velocity - I would not worry. Mine is also a 2011 and is at 82-84. We just got back from the USA Nationals 16U and the USA guys I talked to said they were looking for "plus arms" usually about 88 maybe 87. So he is just a notch below the elite, literally the top 36 kids in the country. We saw lots of kids at 80-85 and a handful above this, so he is at the upper range.

Identify his top 15 keep updating them, get on a fall scout team and work up an active summer next year and he should be on his way.

we have a 2010 on our team that was at 84-85 last summer. he has added a couple of mph and is at 86-88 this summer and is getting a lot of looks. i think if he can add a couple of mph and really work on hitting his spots over the next year you see a big difference in how many guns show up. the key is hitting his spots. even at 86-88 you aren't throwing it by guys anymore. good luck!

Lovethegame, I will say this before TR says it.

Your son is only a 2011 player. Why sweat it now? He hasn't finished growing and has plenty more time to fill out and mature. It's not important right now how fast he throws. You have to take any pressure he may be feeling about this away so he can begin to have fun and relax. If he was a 2009 grad, I'd say he still has a chance to play ball. Lot's of D3 schools would chomp at the chance to have a kid throwing 85 on the bump.

It's every parents dream for their kid to play D1. I hate to burst your bubble but the odds are against him. Unless he is that talented, then continue on. I'm just trying to say be realistic. I swallowed hard when I finally realized that younggunson was NOT D1 material. I then helped him focus on the other levels of college baseball and it made it much more exciting for him, and he tried even harder.

For a 2011 grad he has great size and potential. Help him focus on working to get stronger, not more velocity. I promise it will come.

Good luck.

Lovethegame, you have a PM.

YGD

You don't have to race to beat me to post info---since most on here do not want to hear what I have to say, my posts from here on in may be very limited and sparse

Those that want the info and want to hear what they need to hear have been and still can PM or email me and I thank them

Hey TR don't hold back, many here fully appreciate your posts.

TR, what I said was meant as a compliment my dear friend. In that, you have always been one to say what you mean and mean what you say.

No race here.

Happy 4th!

YGD

You have a great holiday as well

Heading over to my daughters in a bit---BBG with my grandsons and daughter and her great husbaIf theweather holds off it may be Wiffle Ball time this afternoon

Lovethegame -

How do you know you're not getting D1 looks? No D1 coaches, no emails, no letters? They will notice your son, but it's all about projection and the recruiting schedule. NEXT year he will be under a microscope if he continues to develop. Spend the offseason in a conditioning program to build up his core, and lay off the Fall Ball. A great Junior year is the key to recruiting. RHP's don't have to throw 90 to get recruited, but above 85 with good grades and a reasonable SAT score and he will get noticed like you want.

Dont forget what time of the year it is. These guys are busy with the 2010 class. Get you son to jupiter, and if he does well there you will have a much easier time next year.

FYI,

Pro Scouts are most interested in projection. DI schools are most interested in what you have NOW. They can't afford to wait 3 or 4 years for a player to develop. However, there are many programs that are better at developing talent than others. People should be more observant regarding the best schools for developing a player/pitcher.

While there might be some DI schools that show interest in mid 80s pitchers, this is the exception not the rule. There are thousands of high school pitchers who throw mid 80s. There are a couple hundred that throw 90. Typically the high 80s and 90+ guys create the very most recruiting interest. This holds true in every part of the country. Once most all of the high 80 to 90+ guys are gone, the mid 80s pitchers are considered, if there is still a need for pitching.

Not trying to burst any bubbles, just think the facts might help people understand a bit better and make better decisions. It doesn't mean mid 80s pitchers have no chance. It means they have to be extra special and show it consistently to the right people. That in itself can be very difficult.

Also, I'm referring to the upper tier of DI for the most part. And I'm not talking about what they throw on the TV radar gun. Many pitchers who have shown the ability to throw 90 or better, end up pitching 85 to 88. Not many, especially RHPs, are given a DI scholarship because they showed mid 80s velocity in high school.

All that said... Anything is possible! And kids throwing mid 80s as high school underclassmen will create some interest. Possibly, that is what brod means when referring to projection. You definitely have to project underclassmen. Most of them get better. The 2011 throwing mid 80s might be throwing 90+ by his senior year. It happens for some and not for many others!

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

Pro Scouts are most interested in projection. DI schools are most interested in what you have NOW. They can't afford to wait 3 or 4 years for a player to develop. However, there are many programs that are better at developing talent than others. People should be more observant regarding the best schools for developing a player/pitcher.

While there might be some DI schools that show interest in mid 80s pitchers, this is the exception not the rule. There are thousands of high school pitchers who throw mid 80s. There are a couple hundred that throw 90. Typically the high 80s and 90+ guys create the very most recruiting interest. This holds true in every part of the country. Once most all of the high 80 to 90+ guys are gone, the mid 80s pitchers are considered, if there is still a need for pitching.

Not trying to burst any bubbles, just think the facts might help people understand a bit better and make better decisions. It doesn't mean mid 80s pitchers have no chance. It means they have to be extra special and show it consistently to the right people. That in itself can be very difficult.

Also, I'm referring to the upper tier of DI for the most part. And I'm not talking about what they throw on the TV radar gun. Many pitchers who have shown the ability to throw 90 or better, end up pitching 85 to 88. Not many, especially RHPs, are given a DI scholarship because they showed mid 80s velocity in high school.

All that said... Anything is possible! And kids throwing mid 80s as high school underclassmen will create some interest. Possibly, that is what brod means when referring to projection. You definitely have to project underclassmen. Most of them get better. The 2011 throwing mid 80s might be throwing 90+ by his senior year. It happens for some and not for many others!

This is by far the most honest, rational, reality based explaination I've seen. Gives the reality, the challenges, the opportunities and the hope.

Thanks PG, this is great stuff/information.

44
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I agree with OB44, very realistic post by PG.
Good stuff.

Jemaz and PG are right. The radar gun gets you noticed. There are exceptions to every rule, although the widely held Gred Maddux Exception is a myth...he was throwing 90 out of HS. A good example of exception is Josh Spence from ASU, taken in the third round. He works 77-83 and tops at 85. The exception gives hope to other soft tossers, but they are not the rule.

Although you hate to think of shoulder surgery as a good thing, the one positive that did come from it, was that my son learned he could be incredibly effective in college working 83-86, even though he can light it up over 90.

When my son was going into his junior year, he topped at 85, his senior year he touched 94, so there can be great strides in short amounts of time as these boys get their mans body.

Relax, play ball, have fun. If he works hard and dedicates himself, it'll seek it's own level.

Good luck to you and your son.

PGstaff ,

Great insight. Could you provide the same insight in terms of "what they (D1) are looking for realistically" for the positions of Shortstop and Catcher.

Thanks

DI and professional scouts are looking for the same basic tools in both positions. Pro will consider projection a lot more. College wants players who are ready.

College shortstops need to have outstanding fielding ability, a good arm, and athleticism. The ability to make all the plays is more important than running speed, size or projection. Many recruited shortstops end up playing other positions. Hitting ability is a premium at all positions other than pitching.

College catchers need to have good receiving ability and a good quick strong arm. Intelligence is very important. Size and projection is more important to pro scouts. Hitting ability and power are tools everyone likes.

The higher the college level, the more they look for the same thing the pro scouts are looking for… The biggest difference involving projection. The college doesn't want to take 3-5 years to develop a player, no matter how high his ceiling might appear to be. Of course, solid students are much more valuable to college coaches. Makeup is important in both college or pro, but college and pro might not always look for the exact same type of makeup. Colleges tend to put more emphasis on the good teammate, good kid types. The pros sometimes put a lot of emphasis on the tough, do anything to win, championship caliber types. However “Perfect” makeup for both college and pro would include all of the above and more.

Both colleges and pro scouts are most interested in those who are not afraid to play. Those who stay away from competition because they are satisfied with their current position and don’t want to take a chance on hurting their status or “stock” stick out like a sore thumb. Both college coaches and scouts know that sooner or later there is no place to hide. All players will be “exposed” nearly every day! So those who try to hide to protect their status are missing perhaps the most important ingredients of all… Confidence and Courage! Also they are showing one of the sure fire negatives that often results in failure… They are Satisfied!

Colleges want the best "now" player. The pros want the best "future" player. Often, this is the same player. Because of this, colleges will sometimes shy away from the very best because most early draft picks out of high school, don't end up in college. This creates a similar yet different signability concern for college coaches. Scouts do signabilities on players to determine the players interest in pro baseball and what round or what it will take for them to sign. This often determines which round they are selected or if they are even selected in the draft. On the other hand, college coaches need to determine the player’s interest in attending college and at the same time, determine how early that player might go in the draft.

Here is the answer to more or less the same question in from another thread (re D1) catcher:

quote:

Originally posted by jerry weinstein:
1. Athlete
2. Passion for the game
3. Student
4. Offensive potential
5. Catch & throw potential
6. Can he play?

Being a catching guy, it's hard for me to put offense above defense in this position but I always felt if we had an athlete with character we could develop his defensive skills.It was much more difficult to take a guy who had limited offensive skills & develop him into an above average offensive player.IMO the college game,especially with metal bats, is based on offense & pitching. There is little room in the lineup for a non offensive player. Certainly that is contingent upon the skills & abilities of the players who surround you.There are exceptions. But when you recruit in college baseball or scout for professional baseball, you have a role profile & if you make exceptions,you end up with a lot of mismatched parts.

We primarily found players at showcases.We got a lot of follows as the result of e-mails that were followed up by phone calls to coaches & local professional scouts.Once we had our list based on our needs, then we would see the players in games that meant something.We also saw lots of players in our camps. We always encouraged players who were interested in our school to attend camp so that we could have an extended look at them 7 have a hands on experience.

Hope this helps.

JW

quote:

always felt if we had an athlete with character we could develop his defensive skills.It was much more difficult to take a guy who had limited offensive skills & develop him into an above average offensive player.IMO the college game,especially with metal bats, is based on offense & pitching

Thats interesting.It makes sense, because I do think teaching someone how to hit at the college level would be difficult.

thanks folks, great insight