Recruiting conundrum for you?

Do you visit anyways on some chance your mind is changed? Maybe. Depends on individual circumstances

Do you visit and pretend you're interested when you're not? No

Do you cancel, telling them why and expect they deal with this every year? Maybe. Depends on individual circumstances

Do you reimburse schools #2 and #3 for the $$ they already paid on non-reimbursable plane tickets? No. Schools have deals with agents and airlines and can re-use tickets. If a school asks for reimbursement, then just go on the visit even though they know you are not interested if this will make them happy. I really don't think this is a realistic scenario

I know, for sure, that you are not 100% correct on the part highlighted in red.  It is, indeed, a realistic scenario.  I am certain of it.  

Do you reimburse schools #2 and #3 for the $$ they already paid on non-reimbursable plane tickets? No. Schools have deals with agents and airlines and can re-use tickets. If a school asks for reimbursement, then just go on the visit even though they know you are not interested if this will make them happy. I really don't think this is a realistic scenario

You got me. Yes, East Armpit U and the like do not have deals with airlines. I should have said stuff about general rules and that there are exceptions. Thanks for correcting me.

In the real world, recruits cancelling on OVs is not an unusual thing. In all the cases I am aware of (Edit: there are obviously cases I have not heard of) I have never heard of schools asking the kid to pay them for the air tickets.

But you have, and are certain this is realistic. So there ya go. Should be interesting for the folks here to discuss

Well, there ya go Mister!  

No, not "East Armpit U."  What a silly and sarcastic comment.  Good grief!

I'm just trying to get people to think a little bit and YOU come back with not-very-useful and dismissive comments.

Nope, I know for sure this to be a true and "realistic" scenario with an ACC power.  I know an ACC school that came back at a kid complaining about the $$ they lost and talking reimbursement after the above scenario came about.  If I knew the coaches, I'd love to share with them your characterization of "East Armpit U."

Given the other example, I thought(?) it would be interesting to ponder the inverse.

Take the topic off-track with your ill-informed commentary if you want.  I'm more interested in other viewpoints.

SMH.

Don't want to out any schools. I think readers understand what I am talking about when I refer generically to East Armpit U.  If not, it is a generic term for a small, low-budget program. Regret this apparently bothered you.

I stand by my original comment as re-posted below. It is apparent you disagree and I hope your feelings are not hurt.

Schools have deals with agents and airlines and can re-use tickets. If a school asks for reimbursement, then just go on the visit even though they know you are not interested if this will make them happy. I really don't think this is a realistic scenario

You didn't hurt my feelings.  I just think you made a fool of yourself.  Especially if you knew who.

If this doesn't get back on track with reasonable conversation, I'll ask the moderators to delete it.

This wouldn't be the first time I made a fool of myself, if I did, but that has never stopped me from expressing my opinions before and it's not going to stop me now.

Getting back to the topic, instead of whether you think I am a fool, my slice of experience tells me at most schools that use airlines to bring in recruits on OVs, there are arrangements with airlines and agents that make the tickets reusable. For this reason I think the scenario is far more the exception than the rule.

You obviously differ, and others may too.

My grandpappy taught me to never say no, until you need to say no.

Good question JB and you bring up a very good point.

I think that is why many coaches these days want players to first take an unofficial (on their own dime) and then they use the OV for them after they commit.

My understanding is that nowadays many use their own funds to visit schools. Rick from PIS has a great program, IMO, take a bus tour of schools in your geographical area to see the campus, facilities and visit the academic dept. The initial expense might be worth lost money later on both for a program and for you as well.

Never agree to pay for the players fare, that's their job, if they are reluctant, that might be a sign they are half interested.  FWIW, I don't think that schools actually lay out big airfare unless it's an A or maybe a B recruit. C's may have to attend a camp first, JMO. In the scenario that happened to that player, I believe he was a C recruit, and after an A or B committed they didn't need him.  It has happened to mine too.  This is part of the realities of recruiting.

When DK played for the Pokers, they played games and tournies at many FL schools( large and small) as well as in TN, GA, Alabama.  So we didn't have to do the unofficial thing. 

Son had 5 visits set up.  His first was CU, and it was pretty evident that was going to be the one. Upon returning, he called all the other coaches but one and told them that they should use the OV on another player, and it was very much appreciated.  He wasn't asked to commit to CU right away, and was encouraged to go to visit his second choice, UF.  We drove so their expense was minimal (they paid mileage for us to bring him up and back). Looking back, turning down his dream school, was tough, but he had already determined it wasn't a good fit, as well as LSU and Notre Dame.  I had told him that it wasn't fair to take a visit when he had no interest anymore.

Besides that, after only 2 visits he was exhausted!

This should be part of the plan, decide how you are going to use your funds over a 3-4 yr period based upon your sons skill and talent.

Do not use the OV as a chip in your sons recruiting because you will never win.

Just a thought, but I think that is why the smaller programs do recruit more players locally, it is very expensive and they don't have the funds that the larger programs do.

This happened with us.  Had OV set up for another school but already decided to commit to another school prior to that.  Son called school to let them know, and they were obviously disappointed, and they mentioned that tickets already purchased.  I told son to not worry about it as it was tactic to get him to change his mind.  I'm sure the school will get reimbursed most of the money as it was 2 weeks before visit, and if not the cost to them is minimal.  We do not feel any ethical dilemma has occurred, as we were honest and saved school money by advising ahead of time and not taking free hotel room, food, etc . . . .  

For the schools it is micenuts in the overall scheme of things. Official visits get cancelled for all kinds of reasons. If you add up the human capital costs of housing, meeting with and transporting a player around, why would you even consider going if you already made up your mind. Think about it as opportunity lost costs, when you should be putting energy into a recruit that may want to go to a school.

My son very politely cancelled a visit to the Airforce academy after our family had a long discussion and he determined that life style was not what he wanted, and he did not want to waste their time on him.

And yes tickets can be re-booked. SouthWest it is 100% refundable and others have change fees. 

Call the other schools and thank them for their interest and let them know he's gone with another school.

If I was a coach I would gladly eat the airfare instead of having a kid show up for an OV just because travel arrangements had already been made.  Cost aside, I'd want to know ASAP if a kid is going in another direction, this would give me time (and scholarship money) to go after the next kid on the list.  What would really stink is going back to my 2nd choice only to find out he signed with someone else while I was hosting a kid that had no intention of signing with me.

On a side note, I wonder how many top tier players actually make OV's prior to making their decision these days?  With the recruiting timeline moving up each year I would think most of the guys getting the bigger scholarships have made unofficial visits long before OV's are allowed.

This was my first reaction.  The players I know who went to D1 schools took exactly one official visit--on a football weekend their senior year, after they verbally committed but before the NLI signing period.  The weekend my son went on his visit, most of the other recruits were similarly situated:  already committed seniors, waiting to sign.   There was one underclass player who was there for an unofficial visit (and had to pay to enjoy the various meals provided)  

There were also a few JUCO recruits who were uncommitted and still weighing offers.  I suppose they could face the situation JBB presented.

Trying to put myself in the shoes of those JUCO players, my answer to JBB's question is no, I would not take additional OV's after my mind was firmly settled.  I wouldn't want to waste someone else's money and everyone's time taking an OV just for the fun of watching another football game and eating some more barbecue.  However, if there was even a sliver of a chance I could change my mind, I'd take the trip.

This is consistent with experiences I have been associated with and have heard about.

Earlier in the thread it was revealed that an "ACC power" came back at a recruit complaining about money lost from an airline reservation and talking reimbursement. This is very surprising to me, and based on my experience it is an outlier.

Is anyone else familiar with a situation similar to this one....with no need to name the school or conference? Trying to figure out if my experience is realistic or not on this point.

I think Aleebaba answered your question above Green Light.  I thought about it some more last night and came up with another school in a power-5 conference that said effectively the same to a recruit that I know.  It happens.  Get over it.

I think there are various levels of "knowing" if the 1st school visited is really "the one" you always wanted to go to. You could end up making a less then optimal decision by not giving the other schools a legit chance at presenting what they had to offer.  My son, a JUCO transfer, was in a similiar situation, offer from a big time baseball school, great OV, but he had committed to making a trip to a second school and ended choosing the second  school. 

How are you reading Aleebaba's post, reposted below? I am reading it to say the school did not ask him to pay for the cancelled OV air ticket and that he thinks the school will not be out of pocket. This is what I have been saying is the overwhelming reality.

PS: Get over what? Don't know if you feel hostility but I do know that this is the appearance that is being given

JB,

Your scenario did happen with my oldest son.  He committed at a camp, and he knew it was the place for him.   He called the other OV coaches on the long 8hr ride home to let him know of his final decision.  He was supposed to fly to Boston the following weekend....he let them know he wasn't coming.  It was done.

For us, it really wasn't that difficult.   Actually, quite a few of these schools kept in touch with him until he received his Admission letter.  I think they appreciated his honesty and respect for their time & process.  Our situation may be a little different than your scenario as he had already turned down mid-major D1 offers in previous months.  His final schools were academic D1 and D3s, so no powerhouse schools for him.  As is typical in these scenarios...your mileage may vary. 

They didn't make you pay for the ticket, or did they? The school with the biggest endowment in the country?

Don't know if you feel hostility but I do know that this is the appearance that is being given

I would turn it around and say the inverse.  Your posts directed at me are full of sarcasm (yeah, I got most if not all of it) and trite little comments...and you keep returning to your dispute with me even after other posters come in with conversation and their own experiences that is on track and useful. This isn't the first time I've seen a kind of passive-aggressive approach from you.

You've tried to throw this thread off track several times over a small part of the original post...and its a part that you are wrong about.  I'm not going to prove to you 100% that you're wrong because it would take me getting very specific about 2 schools where I know it was discussed.  But whether you believe me or not...your choice...you are absolutely wrong about it not happening at schools not named "East Armpit U."

You wanna continue to debate this...lets take it offline to a PM.  OK?  If you can somehow convince me that I'm way out in left field, I will come back to this public thread and apologize to you (and I'll mean it).

I read Aleebaba's post as confirming that schools can make a recruit feel like he's cost them money?  Whether they cross a line of actually asking or not is not very interesting to me as a non-lawyer.  The truth is, I guess I don't know if the 2 schools I am familiar with actually lost money or not?  But I know they behaved like they would.

Now, as you like to say...lets get back to the main point of the topic.

No, I have not taken the thread off-topic. Here is where I see a disconnect. (and I think this applies to other threads as well)

Poster 1 says something like, "It is not realistic to expect XYZ" or "Don't count on XYZ to happen"

Poster 2 says something like, "You are wrong, I know of one or two or three cases where XYZ happened".

The exception does not refute the general rule. If someone says it is not realistic to expect to win the Powerball, that statement is not refuted by the fact that some people have indeed won the Powerball.

And I think your reaction to the term, "East Armpit U", is not warranted. It is a generic nickname for small schools that have low budgets. It is the opposite of "Acme U" that another poster used in another thread recently.

Bottom line....and directly to your point....I do not think players should be dissuaded from cancelling an OV, if they are no longer interested in a school, just because that school bought an air ticket. I believe in the vast majority of cases the schools can reuse the ticket or otherwise get the money back. If they can't, it is a drop in the bucket for all but the lowest budget schools and something any responsible coach (there may exceptions) would regularly build into his annual budgets as a contingency.

No, it was their ticket.  I recall scheduling a business trip to coincide with his OV trip.  I made the business trip but he didn't make the OV.  I don't recall them pressing the "cost of the ticket" issue at all with my son.

The strange thing was that we were going to come back to Boston the following weekend for another visit to another school (D3 engineering) that was recruiting him.  It was an un-OV for a football game, hangout with football team, and watch a practice.  That would have been on our dime (JetBlue ), but we didn't move forward with that.   

Thanks, Fenway. And good on that D1 which absorbed the air ticket.

Off-topic alert!

(If that D3 is the one I think it is, I have heard it is harder to get an OV there than it is to any of the CWS perennial programs)

You are pretty lucky, no one called anyone a liar.

It's very hard to try to understand what is really coming across on a message board, and there are many here who send their players to East Armpit U, so I took it as a derogatory dig. How about small school XYZ?

GL, are you a college coach, HS coach, where is your info coming from that schools can change tickets after booking them? I don't even think they do that in the minors.  I think they may have the privledge of holding tickets, but from what I understand, once you book a ticket in a name, homeland security forbids a change of name.

If you think I am going to draft my posts to please your word-choice sensibilities, I believe you will be end up being mistaken. Are some posters really offended when someone wants to distinguish generally desirable programs from least-desirable programs by referring to the least desirable programs collectively as "East Armpit U"? Maybe I have grossly underestimated the sensitivity some posters have.

About that liar thing, which is totally irrelevant here, sorry, but I agree with Mech.

Back to the topic of the thread rather than the topic of me or liars. Corporate accounts can routinely reuse/get reimbursement for the value of airline tickets as a matter of course. Airlines would drool over getting the Alabama or Stanford or Texas account. Don't have the foggiest if the process is a rename or a cancel/replace. Maybe others who are interested in this and more knowledgeable about the operation will jump in and respond to you on this point.

Anyway, I do not think players should be dissuaded from cancelling an OV, if they are no longer interested in a school, just because that school bought an air ticket. I believe in the vast majority of cases the schools can reuse the value of the ticket or otherwise get the money back. If they can't, it is a drop in the bucket for all but the lowest budget schools and something any responsible coach (there may exceptions) would regularly build into his annual budgets as a contingency.

GL,

Why have you avoided my question?

Sorry. Didn't mean to slight you or be evasive. Sincerely, which question again? I'll get right back to you. Again, sorry for the oversight

The above, you didn't see it?

Oh, yes I did, so sorry. I got sidetracked by the thread topic.

GL, are you a college coach, HS coach, [Nope, unemployed] where is your info coming from that schools can change tickets after booking them? [Three places: 1. prior corporate experience 2. Recruiting experiences that close relatives and friends have had 3. Advice from friends who are in the college game]

If you think I am posting BS, please refute it. If Mariano Rivera's mom came on on here and posted BS, it would still be BS despite her son's credentials. If the Madison Ave wino came on here and posted pure wisdom, it would still be pure wisdom even though he is a drunk. I don't go for credentialism on message boards.

In an effort to maintain relevancy, let me repeat again, I do not think players should be dissuaded from cancelling an OV, if they are no longer interested in a school, just because that school bought an air ticket. I believe in the vast majority of cases the schools can reuse the value of the ticket or otherwise get the money back. If they can't, it is a drop in the bucket for all but the lowest budget schools and something any responsible coach (there may exceptions) would regularly build into his annual budgets as a contingency.

I believe you. 

One cannot change names on tickets, but they may get credit for an unused flight only. Tickets are usually held by a third party employed by the program, but not issued in a name until a day or two before. The expense of tickets could come from another source of income not the actual coaches budget.  OV in other sports other than football usually try to limit it to after they commit. They also are only allowed a certain amount. Not sure how many.   

Football recruits allowed 5 visits, most if not all take all 5 and never asked to pay back a thing.  Same goes for other sports.

Programs cannot pay for parents flight under any circumstances.

The situation of the program canceling the recruits visit happens, but not often, let the program pay, mech should be able to get his money back if he can prove that the coach told him it was definetly an official, not a misunderstanding.  Parent should not have been asked to pay for a room or players ticket, unless he insisted that he wanted a certain place to stay or make the reservation himself to save himself money. Lesson learned for him part one.

People here should be very careful naming coaches who said what and why, it can lead to trouble later on.

My opinion is that if a player knows he isn't going to make a commitment, why waste your time and theirs and your money and theirs, and baseball is not football. But they are entitled to come if they have been asked, regardless, it is the chance the coach takes as well as the recruit. There are many instances of players going on OV and not given an offer end of visit.

The liar comment was not directed towards you, I made a comment and was joking because I was called such.  I know for a fact that coaches can make a big stink about a player they were expecting to sign backing out, it happens all of the time. usually the recruit is a big time prospect, reality is they don't care about the B or C type recruit as they can be replaced by anyone.

Very nice 'real-world' response CoachB25.  A slightly different opinion and angle that gives everyone a little to think about.  Nice job!  

I don't nothing about no ticket reimbursements

however

"It's done" should perhaps be defined as "signed nli" You just never know, and it's always nice to have options.