Recruiting out of their state?

Check out the Southern Conference.

Maryland seems to get a few players from PA I think.

VMI is almost 100% VA kids, and Radford has about 66% VA kids. Both VMI and Radford are in the Big South. CCU has owned the conference the last bunch of years, and their roster has a more national "look and feel" to it. I don't think it is the conference, but more about the school and their athletic recruiting decisions. Logic would dictate that if you recruit nationally, you'll have access to more recruits, and more recruits will want to come to CCU at Myrtle Beach, SC.

Supply and Demand. It may also be that CCU has to compete for in-state SC recruits with USC, Clemson, GA Tech, Georgia, Virginia, UNC, etc.. That is stiff competition for top level players, so they've made the organizational decison to recruit more regionally & nationally.

Just some initial thoughts.

Must agree on the CCU observation. I had noticed it too, many out of state kids. It may be also that their "out of state" tuition is less than those other top notch programs they are competeing against so therefore its more attractive let alone they WIN. Being next to the beach is also a positive.

quote:

Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
VMI is almost 100% VA kids, and Radford has about 66% VA kids. Both VMI and Radford are in the Big South. CCU has owned the conference the last bunch of years, and their roster has a more national "look and feel" to it. I don't think it is the conference, but more about the school and their athletic recruiting decisions. Logic would dictate that if you recruit nationally, you'll have access to more recruits, and more recruits will want to come to CCU at Myrtle Beach, SC.

Supply and Demand. It may also be that CCU has to compete for in-state SC recruits with USC, Clemson, GA Tech, Georgia, Virginia, UNC, etc.. That is stiff competition for top level players, so they've made the organizational decison to recruit more regionally & nationally.

Just some initial thoughts.

That is 100% accurate imho as well as the other comments in this thread.

Coastal Carolina is a great baseball program and they are not known for their academics other than Marine Science which is a nationally recognized program. Players who go there ought to know it is a baseball factory and I suspect the majority who go there for baseball have higher level baseball ambitions.

They do indeed recruit out of their camps as that is how my son was recruited even though we are from Cleveland, Ohio. Kids from all over the country are fighting to get in there and it is a national tryout for a roster spot and for playing time frankly. One nice byproduct of their camps is they typically have 1/2 dozen to a dozen college scouts from other D1's, D2's, and D3's in attendance along with about 1/2 dozen pro scouts so you can get some decent exposure other than just from the host CCU.

Myrtle Beach is a nice place to vacation and it is a wonderful place go to college. It is even better playing college baseball there with the nice ocean breezes blowing softly through the palm trees just beyond the outfield fence

If anyone has any specific questions, I can answer them publicly or in private.

Hey Cleveland, publicly on this one I suppose. If they have the max 35 on their roster and what 27 can be on scholly and that much of a majority are from out of state, at an out of state tuition/room/board of approx. 26k compared to an in-state of approx. 16k, without doing the math they certainly cant be shelling out a whole lot of scholly money to any number of individual players can they?
Any insight?

I don't think they consider in-state versus out of state. I believe they (and many others) only look at the percentages. Thus, 11.7 can only be divided up so many ways and a 50% out-of-stater is the same to them as a 50% in-stater. I'll be honest in that I am no expert in this area and perhaps 3FG or someone else can comment better on the subject. My guess is they don't have any more or less walk-ons than any other fully-funded program.

So, is it 11.7 x the in state tuition/room/board that they divy up?

quote:

I believe they (and many others) only look at the percentages.

When my son was in hs I took him to ASU for a catching camp. At the camps end Tim Esmay told a group of 30 campers and parents that he recruited in state mostly and where ever possible because it was way cheaper to the baseball program to fund 25% of in-state vs. 25% of out of state.

That really ****ed me off because he called us out of state to invite us to the camp.

And, Eric G, yes.. it is a total school expense divided by scholly %

It's not uncommon for coaches to get the financial aid offices to waive out of state tuition prices for out of state student athletes. This combined with some academic money, makes it a reasonable choice for out of state students especially since these arrangements are usually four year deals. Plus, it doesn't use up any of the athletic scholarship money so out of state students can be more attractive to a coach.

The smaller D1's in the South can't compete with the big name schools and find it easier to find talented out of state players that want to come to the warmer climates.

I thought thatn at some places the coaches budget was based on average cost of attendance (ACOA). That would be 11.7 x ACOA?

3FG should be able to clarify.

quote:

So, is it 11.7 x the in state tuition/room/board that they divy up?

Not exactly. Each state-supported school uses a weighted average cost which takes into account the proportion of out-of-state students and the amount of both in-state and out-of-state tuitions. Therefore, the tuition cost used in the calculation is in between the in-state and out-of-state amounts. Using your formula, it'd look like 11.7 x weighted-average tuition + room + board + books.

Then mathematically, does it make sense for a state school to have MORE out-of-state athletes, which then gives them a higher dollar amount to dole out to their roster?

No. The weighted average has nothing to do with the proportion of out-of-state players on the team roster. It's based upon the student body at-large.

No matter how you cut it, in-state players use up less precious dollars out of the scholarship "kitty." As a result, state-supported universities will try to do the best job they can of recruiting in their home state.

silly question but after an out-of-state student/athlete has been at a school for x amount of time (say a year), do they become in-state, thus potentially changing their tuition fees/scholly hit?

quote:

Originally posted by cabbagedad:
silly question but after an out-of-state student/athlete has been at a school for x amount of time (say a year), do they become in-state, thus potentially changing their tuition fees/scholly hit?

Pretty difficult to establish residency for school attendance purposes only.
Coaches usually make specific offers based upon players residency and if the player can afford it.
Thanks for that answer Prepster, was pretty sure it was based on an "average" for the entire student body.
cabbagedad,
Just for clarification, the coach works within the budget he has to work with. Let's say the ACOA is 20K, regardless of in state or out of state, that would mean that he has about 234K to work with based on 11.7. He also knows it's going to cost the out of state player more, so I am going to assume if he really wants that player he will award him much more than an in state player. He might even give him a nice scholie and the in state player nothing, especially if they earn "Hope" type scholarships.
Keep in mind that he does NOT have to award anyone anything, if he does, it must be 25% and no more than 27 on scholarship (this is for D1, D2 isn't as strict and none for D3).

SEC head coach told me an in-state and out-of-state scholarship was viewed as the same by the NCAA. In other words 11.7 "scholarships" were allowed. Didn't differinciate between I-S or O-O-S. I think different states and different universities do it differently. The following article discusses in state vs. out of state. Article

quote:

At Northwestern Oklahoma State University, students qualify for in-state tuition if they have an SAT score of at least 940 or an ACT score of at least 20 as well as a high school GPA of at least 2.7. Those who can’t meet these criteria may also qualify for a waiver if they are recruited for a college activity such as for band or for a sports team. Including travel and books, the cost of attending Northwestern Oklahoma State University is $12,000 this year.

Fungo

I am pretty sure Fungo has it right there - IS and OOS being viewed as the same.

I keep a database with much of this waiver information about different schools as I can get my hands on - my guy is a freshman now, so we've got time. In our situation, everything is Out-of-State, and paying In-State is almost as valuable as the 1/2 scholarship.

I keep closer track of about 20 or so schools and different aspects about their rosters. To begin with, part of my selection process was based upon how many OOS players they carried. Of the 20 or so schools, OOS players make up between 25% and 80% of the roster.

There are a few articles out there like fungo has suggested and it's not the first time, I've heard of people establishing some sort of residency after a year (with guidelines outlined by the school) - kinda hard to get on the voting list if you're an international though...

I believe that coaches do what they can do to get the best players possible. For example, pitchers tend to get a bit more money. Why wouldn't you go after a player with a waived OOS? Also, in that article, they talk about states with fewer and fewer eligible students. If a baseball player has a 3.5-4.0 from OOS and good SAT's, it can contribute positively to the schools academic ranking (some of those US News school rankings have very wide ranges in SAT numbers - others do not).

I think that a lot of the OOS waivers have some academic ties to them. I know that when junior takes any NCAA required course at school, I am on him like "white on rice".

Some states do have a 1 year residency rule. South Carolina doesn't. My son checked it out. He had a SC drivers license and a Social security number and still couldn't.
The SC license helped him avoid the Ontario graduated license though !!
I do know a player than went to a JC in Michigan that did get instate after 1 year.

geez, in some ways, the more I learn, the more confused I get. I guess it really is different for each shool... that part surely doesn't help narrow the search much! particularly when $$$ is such a big part of the equation but such a hard number to nail down.
(I'm getting great help on another post but this part is still going to drive me nuts)