Report: Bonds, Giambi, Sheffield received steroids

Hmm.
Maybe we should have saved the asterisk given to Maris for breaking Ruth's single season mark of 60 in more games. The "chemically enhanced" record-breakers seem much more deserving.

Does anyone have a picture of Bonds as a rookie, and another one of him during the past couple of years?

It would be very interesting to see the difference.

I am not trying to imply anything, I am just curious!

I think it would be more educational to see pictures taken every year or so. Compare a picture of yourself now with one twenty years ago - what would you see?

D'oh!

Twice the shadow of my former self.

Rocket

Have you ever seen pictures of Mickey Mantle when he was a rookie and again at the end of his career ??

TRhit

barry bonds

http://www.baseball-reference/b/bondsba01.shtml

I find this quote interesting:

Bonds' attorney, Michael Rains, told the Chronicle: "We continue to adamantly deny that Barry was provided, furnished or supplied any of those substances at any time by Greg Anderson."

Funny Barry's attorney only said Anderson did not furnish Barry those substances. Sounds like Clintonese for somebody else supplied the goods.

you are looking for truth from a lawyer

Good points by all!


I just remember that ESPN(I think)showed a couple of picture of him comparing several years ago to recent years. Like I said, I am not implying that he did this by taking steroids (Any one who lifts weights will get bigger!!!!). I just thought it was amazing to see the difference. I believe the pictures that I am asking for would help us to understand the difference in the game of baseball today. I believe the increased number of homeruns has more to do with the strength of today's players than we give it credit for.

TR

Mantle was strong as an ox when he signed as a teenager and his power declined later in his career. His "conditioning program" was done at places like Toots Shors which will never be confused with Gold's Gym. Nobody ever accused Mantle as being fitter at the end of his career than at the beginning. Ruth went from big to bigger,but mostly around the waist. Bonds and Giambi were skinny contact hitters before their metamorphisis. Just imagine if Ruth and Mantle had access to today's technology and the disipline to train.

Let's not bash the lawyers too quickly.....

Last week's news carried a picture of Greg Maddux as a rookie and as a new member of the Cubs-amazing how he filled out in 18 years, and nobody is accusing or suspecting of him. I too am troubled by the seemingly ballooning of size in a short time that inevitably is chemical-aided, but there are legitimate instances of real growth. The troubling aspect is how it seemingly appears in a very short period of time. Line up the picture of Bonds, Giambi, Macguire, etc. for every year of their career and I suspect you'll see a big change at some point from one year to the next.

The newspaper report, here we go again with guys looking to get headlines, said they were sent stuff--- nobody has said they used it--in fact I read one report where Bonds trainer said that Bonds refused him when he offered it

OO7 when Mantle came up he was a strong boy--when he left the game he was a strong man--there is a difference in the body maturities

He also trained at the Copa quite often

TRhit

hokie

It can be done with GNC supplements and rigid work our regimen--they don't need steriods to get the bodies they got

TRhit

an excerpt from the article reads....Serra also said that Bonds "never took anything illegal" and that the slugger was offered -- but rejected -- a substance at the heart of the government's case..... does this contradict the article in itself ? or that what they took was a performance enhancing drug that was not illegal? some one please explain!

Who says they took illegal drugs ??? BALCO also manufactures legal vitamin supplements etc

Anyone can suspect and surmise!!!!

TRhit

Bonds is about as innocent as OJ Simpson

is creatine a performance enhancing substance? if so how many high school and college athletes have altered thier abilities through the use of it? if he took illegal substances then he deserves what he gets just like sammy! but if they werent illegal then is it any different than the supplements we but at gnc?

Creatine is used in work out regimens to help recovery within the body. You can call it a performance enhancer if you wish

The material that BIG MAC was taking in St Louis was known for supposedly preventing muscle tears--keep in mind that his home run record year was one of the few seasons he was not our with back problems and muscle problems

You could call that a performance enhancer because it kept BIG MAC healthy. But any of us can buy these items in any health store.

TRhit

I'm trying to find that shot of Babe Ruth drinking a whey protein shake with cigar in hand in Life magazine circa 1933. Just can't seem to find it.

Babe Ruth--now there was a great physical specimen !!! It is amazing what he did being in the shape he was

TRhit

lol, Dibble.

I read where Giambi, Bonds and Sheffield received all of the "substances", but no one knows if they actually used them.

We should just ask them. I'm sure they will tell us...truthfully. If you believe that, you can be the new owner (s) of the Yankees..

Now, the difference between Maddux and Bonds is that Maddux didn't gain weight that was purely muscle, he's still a little pudgy. Bonds is like 2% body fat and he's 40. Thats what's odd. Everyone gains fat as they age, but very few gain muscle and lose fat.

NJ Pitch

None of them used Roids,

Please don't believe everything you hear.

REPORTEDLY Recieved steroids.

The media will do anything to crucify Bonds.

I guarantee none of them took steroids.

If you think you can't gain a ton of muscle as you age, look at those 48 year old natural body builders.

Bonds certainly does not look like that. But he is big.

Look at all those 260 pd 4% body fat linebackers.

Bonds says, test me every day.
Media reports Bonds was offered Steroids, but denied them.
Media reports his trainer never gave him anything.
Media then reports all three were given steroids.
Media Reports Sheffield was a name(that was supposed to be blacked out) that was mentioned about Steroids.
Sheffield got documentation and proved everyone that he received only vitamins.

I don't know, it's getting crazy.

Steroids would not make you hit 350 .370

I am positive Bonds did nothing wrong. But there are people who plainly just don't like him and are already calling for his lifetime ban of baseball. This without even hearing all the "facts".

OK, I'll bite.

quote:

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I guarantee none of them took steroids.

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And you know this because? How can you make such a guarantee?

quote:

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But there are people who plainly just don't like him and are already calling for his lifetime ban of baseball. This without even hearing all the "facts".

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And you know all the facts? Well, then tell us and the nation to clear the air. Lift this cloud that has befallen this game.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."...Joe Jackson

Just some food for thought:

When Ruth hit his 60 I do believe that no other hitter had more than thirty?

Didn't the Yankees have one year in the 60's when 5 players had 20 or mote homeruns--a feat unheard of on their day.

BIG MAC had 49 dingers in his rookie year and would have had 50 or more had it not been for injury

Folks things happen in this game-- they move fences in; they tighten the wrapping of the baseball; the hieght of the mound goes up and down.

Let us not be too quick to judge until we have the facts or someone admits they did something.

TRhit

AMEN!

TRhit,

While Babe Ruth did not use roids some would say he had his own little advantage and that was he hit from the left side and played at Yankee Stadium. One other interesting fact is Gehrig (i.e. another left handed Yankee) hit 47 HRs in the year Ruth hit 60 but you are right that very few hitters had power in that year as the next best was 18 by Lazzeri who also was a Yankee.

It should be noted a close examination of the facts would prove the critics of Ruth to be wrong and the same may be true of the critics of Bonds and others regarding steriods but I am not so sure.

"They didn't get along. (Lou) Gehrig thought (Babe) Ruth was a big-mouth and Ruth thought Gehrig was cheap. They were both right." - Tony Lazzeri

Steriods were not invented until the 1930's
from a country that was run by a deranged artist

The Babe could hit the ball a ton even despite is wacky diet. The Babe was once sent to the hospital after getting sick from eating 22 hotdogs for lunch

BBFORLIFE

I stand corrected but my point is in that era his numbers were extraordinary--in 1961 Maris hits 61, Mantle 54, Skowron 28, Howard 21, Berra 22 and Blanchard 21--and the three catchers Howcard , Berra and Blanchard did not play a full season as they platooned-- in fact Blanchard got his 21 in 93 games, a little more than half a season.

Shall we begin asking why 1961 was so different--the biggest year Maris ever had previous was 39 in 1960-

TRhit

It is called expansion, 4 new teams in 1961 or 40 MLB pitchers that would have been in Triple A ball a year ago.


As far as can Steriods helping your career, a teammate was clocked at 88-91 mph, and a DNF, in the off season did steriods now in the 94-96 mph range and signed for 2nd round money.

Not real fair for MLB players who may lose their jobs to players that does creatine or steriods.

Simple solution test everyone at the MLB level.

TRhit,

I was not trying to correct you as your statement was very valid in that after Ruth and Gehrig the next best HR total in 1927 was 18. The point I was trying to make is that some people in the past have tried to say the reason Ruth was able to hit 60 homeruns is because he was a lefty playing in Yankee Stadium which if very conducive to left handed hitters. The argument makes perfect since until someone looks at the facts, which are Ruth hit as many homeruns on the road as he did at Yankee Stadium. So while many including myself have their suspicions about steroid use by Bonds and others we really won't know for sure until the facts are made public. What we do know though is a significant number of players did test positive for steroids this past year and until all players are tested a dark cloud will hang over MLB and especially the power hitters.

BBFORLIFE

I for one do not think the cloud is as dark as one makes it out to be--but only time will tell

TRhit

A host of track athletes and four players for the Raiders have tested positive for THG, while Major League Baseball announced in November that as many as 83 players tested positive for steroids last spring.

If you swing a bat with your arms and legs, then yes, steroids will help you because they make the arms and legs much stronger.

Problem is Bonds doesnt' swing with his arms or legs, he uses his back.

Nothing else.

He realized the more he tries to hit (with his arms wrists), the less power he gets and slumps occur.

He realized he does not try to swing with his arms. He found "it". Have you ever seen Bonds in a slump since 2001? He hit .330 then .370 then .345.

What was his averages before? .290 .300,

Roids do not give you hand-eye coordination one bit. Who better to ask then Canseco. This is a statement he made.