RHP used jump pivot move to pick at 1B. Balk was called for not gaining ground toward 1B. What is considered "gaining ground"?
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Once in contact with the rubber attemps by pitchers to get outs at bases require a step toward the base being thrown to.
quote:Originally posted by redbird5:
RHP used jump pivot move to pick at 1B. Balk was called for not gaining ground toward 1B. What is considered "gaining ground"?
The pitcher must gain direction and distance. It can be difficult to determine with some pitchers. Basically when he lands, his left foot needs to be closer to first than it was before the move.
I know what my idea of a legal jump spin is and I'm hard pressed to imagine a balk.
But then again if F1's first move is straight up, for example, (picture a Wes Unseld rebound and outlet, all one motion) jump, grab, then twist and throw.
If F1 tries that, i.e. comes set, jumps straight up then twists and throws..balk em, for two reasons, first motion was something other than towards 1B, secondly it's a goofy idea.
But then again if F1's first move is straight up, for example, (picture a Wes Unseld rebound and outlet, all one motion) jump, grab, then twist and throw.
If F1 tries that, i.e. comes set, jumps straight up then twists and throws..balk em, for two reasons, first motion was something other than towards 1B, secondly it's a goofy idea.
I have seen this move where pitcher goes backward toward second base on the shortstop side. The result is the back foot actually swings toward 3rd and the front foot is planted directly behind the rubber instead actually moving toward 1st base. Most umpires let it go.
There was no Wes Unseld. His feet went from North-South on a compass to West-East. His left foot was closer to 1B when he jump pivoted - so that SHOULD have satisfied the gaining ground complaint.
He was called for this balk twice in 1 game. He satisfied the umpire after that by jumping higher in his pivot, which makes no sense to me. What does height have to do with it? I'd like to know so I can teach the player.
He was called for this balk twice in 1 game. He satisfied the umpire after that by jumping higher in his pivot, which makes no sense to me. What does height have to do with it? I'd like to know so I can teach the player.
If his front foot moved toward first there should be no balk. The umpire would have to give you detail about what he saw to make that call. A jump of 2" or 2' is irrelevant. Coming down in the same "footprint" would matter.
Without seeing it the best I can offer is in the stretch assumming the front foot is within the width of the rubber make sure the front foot is outside the rubber toward first before throwing the ball.
Without seeing it the best I can offer is in the stretch assumming the front foot is within the width of the rubber make sure the front foot is outside the rubber toward first before throwing the ball.
My interpretation exactly on the height. His direction was fine as well, IMO. His feet were just quickly in place. This is the 1st time in his career he was called for this, so he will keep doing what he has been doing.
My opinion is the umpire was making a "hero call" or, as Colin Cowherd says, "trying to out think the room".
Thank you for the help.
My opinion is the umpire was making a "hero call" or, as Colin Cowherd says, "trying to out think the room".
Thank you for the help.
quote:Originally posted by redbird5:
My opinion is the umpire was making a "hero call" or, as Colin Cowherd says, "trying to out think the room".
One of the ways an umpire can get himself in trouble is by over thinking a situation.....or being overly officious in a situation.....
Redbird,
Several things to consider here. (1) LuvB did use “footprint”. If the pitcher does not get out of his “footprint” there’s a chance he’ll get called for a balk – no distance. This is definitely a case of you have to be there. But, I don’t understand the umpire’s explanation. (2) Since I know that you are on the Southside, it will also depend on who the umpire was. If the plate umpire was a college umpire, they are more likely to see this. If the plate umpire was not a college umpire, they may not see this. (3) I believe your son is a freshman, and I see things like this a lot. Moves that can be gotten away with at lower levels, get called as the player moves up.
Randy
Several things to consider here. (1) LuvB did use “footprint”. If the pitcher does not get out of his “footprint” there’s a chance he’ll get called for a balk – no distance. This is definitely a case of you have to be there. But, I don’t understand the umpire’s explanation. (2) Since I know that you are on the Southside, it will also depend on who the umpire was. If the plate umpire was a college umpire, they are more likely to see this. If the plate umpire was not a college umpire, they may not see this. (3) I believe your son is a freshman, and I see things like this a lot. Moves that can be gotten away with at lower levels, get called as the player moves up.
Randy
Base,
Thanks for the reply.
1) I was standing behind the plate with 4 scouts, including a regional crosschecker. After the first balk, I was specifically looking for this. He picked 2 more times to 1B with no balk call and then got called on the 3rd. All were the same move with the same distance covered.
2) Plate umpire called the first one and the field ump called 2nd.
3) My son is a sophomore and pitches to college umpires every weekend and has never gotten this call against him. As a matter of fact, in all of my coaching years (including college stints), I have never seen nor heard of this call on a RHP.
Just thought it was weird that he could use the same move and get called for balk every now and then. He picked off 3 kids this game, not including the 2 saved via balk.
Thanks for the reply.
1) I was standing behind the plate with 4 scouts, including a regional crosschecker. After the first balk, I was specifically looking for this. He picked 2 more times to 1B with no balk call and then got called on the 3rd. All were the same move with the same distance covered.
2) Plate umpire called the first one and the field ump called 2nd.
3) My son is a sophomore and pitches to college umpires every weekend and has never gotten this call against him. As a matter of fact, in all of my coaching years (including college stints), I have never seen nor heard of this call on a RHP.
Just thought it was weird that he could use the same move and get called for balk every now and then. He picked off 3 kids this game, not including the 2 saved via balk.
Sounds more like Andy Pettit if it's that good a move.
I don't hink it is that great of a move, he just has quick feet for a RHP.
As others have mentioned, his has to gain both distance and direction. Obviously he is gaining direction on the spin, where it sounds he is having a problem is in distance. There is a very fine line between landing in the same footprint and actually gaining ground. If his feet are that quick then he may not always be moving over fast enough. I wouldn't change his move, just refine it so he is always getting some distance.