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Wow. I wish him great success.
The article says he's just 16 years old. Is that true?
Mike F
Mike F
Stock's catch and throw skills are unrefined, but his arm strength serves him well as a catcher. His footwork and exchange can be cleaned up, which would improve his pop times from home to second. He's athletic and agile enough to block balls adequately presently. His instincts, work ethic and championship-caliber makeup should serve him well as he continues to develop.
I haven't looked at Southern Cal's roster to see how many other catchers they have, but what they're in essence telling their Sr. catcher as well as any other catcher they have, is that they may as well forget playing in favor of a kid that might not even be shaving daily....even though his skills are unrefined.
Looks like team chemistry problem potential to me.
I haven't looked at Southern Cal's roster to see how many other catchers they have, but what they're in essence telling their Sr. catcher as well as any other catcher they have, is that they may as well forget playing in favor of a kid that might not even be shaving daily....even though his skills are unrefined.
Looks like team chemistry problem potential to me.
Stock Family,
I wish Robert the absolute best at USC and 19 yrs of age is a great place to start in pro ranks. Especially after three years of seasoned AA equivalent play at a major DIV I powerhouse.
I still stand by what I said about Robert in CA thread and he has my blessings for his intelligence and preparation at such an early age as witnessed by many of us back in 2003 here on this board
USC is lucky you have chosen them to get you ready for your future.
Good Luck and by the way, great slight left-center homerun at AFLAC in SD. Hope your teammate gave you the message about what a great at-bat I thought that was on the slight off-center mash!!! I was there along with the pack of scouts behind homeplate. We were all right there my brother peace and all the best at USC, Shep
I wish Robert the absolute best at USC and 19 yrs of age is a great place to start in pro ranks. Especially after three years of seasoned AA equivalent play at a major DIV I powerhouse.
I still stand by what I said about Robert in CA thread and he has my blessings for his intelligence and preparation at such an early age as witnessed by many of us back in 2003 here on this board
USC is lucky you have chosen them to get you ready for your future.Good Luck and by the way, great slight left-center homerun at AFLAC in SD. Hope your teammate gave you the message about what a great at-bat I thought that was on the slight off-center mash!!! I was there along with the pack of scouts behind homeplate. We were all right there my brother
peace and all the best at USC, Shep
I wish nothing but the best for this young man. He's been under a microscope for a long time...I expect he will continue to shine under this one.
All the best!
All the best!
One thing I don't understand though...Where are all the posters who were so active in their posts in Pro vs College thread? You all should be the first to congratulate this fine young man for his decision to first go to college. 
Makes me go like Arsenio Hall used to do with his finger scratching his chin with the silly face, "just makes you want to go Hmmm.."-Arsenio
peace, Shep
Makes me go like Arsenio Hall used to do with his finger scratching his chin with the silly face, "just makes you want to go Hmmm.."-Arsenio
peace, Shep
quote:Originally posted by Shepster:
One thing I don't understand though...Where are all the posters who were so active in their posts in Pro vs College thread?You all should be the first to congratulate this fine young man for his decision to first go to college.
Makes me go like Arsenio Hall used to do with his finger scratching his chin with the silly face, "just makes you want to go Hmmm.."-Arsenio
Shep,
There's about 3 threads on this, read them all. And although I think it is the right decision (to go to college) giving up senior year of HS is really the issue here with most people, college vs. pro,
JMO
quote:One thing I don't understand though...Where are all the posters who were so active in their posts in Pro vs College thread?
Sorry Sheep dog, I miss your point! How does skipping your senior year of high school to enter college early factor into the pro vs college debate? Surely you're not suggesting that Robert would be better served if he were allowed to enter the professional draft at age sixteen? Let it rest.
Obviously this is a special young man. He and his parents feel as if he is special enough to move faster than the majority of student athletes and the NCAA and the USC administrators agree. Only if we had a crystal ball and could see into the future could we know if he was doing the right thing. I would venture to say he will have the ability to overcome the challenges and will emerge a winner. However I think he would emerge a winner even if he had stayed for his senior year of high school. I feel as if the uniqueness of the situation will garner a lot of attention but I don’t see this as the beginning of a new movement. It is a gamble no matter what route a player takes. There are no guarantees! My suggestion is to make the best decision you have with the information you have and move forward. I’m looking forward to following Robert over the next few years and wish him the best.
Fungo
Fungo said:
I know you said let it rest but if the board will allow me, I would like to say a couple more things then I promise to let it go if everybody else does
#1-If we had a crystal ball, we could do alot of things, but unfortunately we don't.
#2-Maybe we should have started a HS vs PRO or College thread.
#3-Certainly we should all be happy and supportive of what I personally think is a good decision if he's thinking catching which I have suggested from the start for young Stock.
#4-It's not about what "we" want but rather what each individual player and family decide is best route.
#5-Every situation is different that comes neatly bundled with a stack of variables as in the stack for Stock prior to this decision.
#6-If money is not a variable, remove that aspect from the equation and look further down the road at the best opportunity to achieve the ultimate goal and pinnacle of playing in the Major Leagues which I firmly believe has been done in this Stock decision.
#7-Isn't 19 yrs old closer to the age a HS senior has to make the decision of pro vs college?
#8-Young stock will be only 19 yrs old with three years of top instruction and experience behind dish for a powerhouse DIV I school at USC when eligible for draft again in 2009.
#9-Will someone please start a pro vs senior year in college school thread in order to discuss all the joys and life experiences of continued education for Stock in 2009 opposed to signing professional contract after draft?
#10-It's really none of any of our business what this fine young man and his family decides even though we can all post our opinions.
Peace,
Sheep Dog
quote:How does skipping your senior year of high school to enter college early factor into the pro vs college debate?
I know you said let it rest but if the board will allow me, I would like to say a couple more things then I promise to let it go if everybody else does
#1-If we had a crystal ball, we could do alot of things, but unfortunately we don't.
#2-Maybe we should have started a HS vs PRO or College thread.
#3-Certainly we should all be happy and supportive of what I personally think is a good decision if he's thinking catching which I have suggested from the start for young Stock.
#4-It's not about what "we" want but rather what each individual player and family decide is best route.
#5-Every situation is different that comes neatly bundled with a stack of variables as in the stack for Stock prior to this decision.
#6-If money is not a variable, remove that aspect from the equation and look further down the road at the best opportunity to achieve the ultimate goal and pinnacle of playing in the Major Leagues which I firmly believe has been done in this Stock decision.
#7-Isn't 19 yrs old closer to the age a HS senior has to make the decision of pro vs college?
#8-Young stock will be only 19 yrs old with three years of top instruction and experience behind dish for a powerhouse DIV I school at USC when eligible for draft again in 2009.
#9-Will someone please start a pro vs senior year in college school thread in order to discuss all the joys and life experiences of continued education for Stock in 2009 opposed to signing professional contract after draft?
#10-It's really none of any of our business what this fine young man and his family decides even though we can all post our opinions.
Peace,
Sheep Dog
quote:Shep posted: Especially after three years of seasoned AA equivalent play at a major DIV I powerhouse.
The PAC10 is as good as the Southern League? I very seriously doubt that but, whatever. Good players adjust to whatever level they move to. Robert will be fine.
Buddy
I really meant the TX league peace, Sheep Dog
I really meant the TX league
peace, Sheep Dog
1410 SAT Score has got to be the most impressive thing in the whole article.
Congrats on the Stock family, if anyone can do it Robert can!
Congrats on the Stock family, if anyone can do it Robert can!
Agreed baseballbum.
Best part of the article. He qualified to go to college early and took advantage of that opportunity. The young man obviously has a lot going for him on and off the field. I wish him the best. What will really tell the story is if he somehow manages to play three years of ball at USC, graduate early and then turn pro. Like they said "have our cake and eat it to".
quote:Stock, who was named Baseball America's Youth Player of the Year in 2005 as a 15-year-old, met early academic admission requirements based on several criteria outlined in Rule 14.3.1.4 of the NCAA's early admission program. Stock ranked in the top 20 percent of his high school class and has completed each of his core class requirements, except English. He also had the required GPA of at least 3.5 in each of his last four high school semesters. He then had to apply for a waiver from the NCAA that would grant him eligibility to play baseball at USC, which he received. His 1410 SAT score helped him overcome the final stumbling block of getting into Southern California through its Resident Honors Program, which allows about 30 elite students who have demonstrated exceptional maturity to enroll in the university a year early.
Best part of the article. He qualified to go to college early and took advantage of that opportunity. The young man obviously has a lot going for him on and off the field. I wish him the best. What will really tell the story is if he somehow manages to play three years of ball at USC, graduate early and then turn pro. Like they said "have our cake and eat it to".
#2 Maybe we should have started a HS vs Pro or college thread.
Why? Most players do finish HS, this is an unusual situation with a very very talented young player. Many players are asked to forego senior year, but they don't. Understand also that this is just not something you can do without meeting the criteria, which he has. This player is college material that's for sure!
#6 If money is not a variable, remove that aspect from the equation and look further down the road at the best opportunity to achieve the ultimate goal and pinnacle of playing in the Major Leagues....
I think this is pretty much understood when most players make a decision and many of us do beleive this to be true! This has never been an issue.
Don't some players choose college because they feel some programs give top instruction. USC certainly is not the only powerhouse school which you say is comparible to AA (which according to those in or affiliated with pro ball is not because of use of wood bats).
#9 Will someone please start a pro vs. senior year in college school thread in order to discuss all the joys and life experiences of continued education for Stock in 2009 opposed to signing professional contract after draft.
Are you suggesting that we begin discussion on whether a drafted player should finish college or sign a pro contract his sophomore or junior year. I think it is pretty much understood that MOST players will attend college for the college experience, earn most of their degree, grow and refine so that they become better prospects when they weren't out of HS. We all know MOST want out if they have opportunities to begin their careers and often they do stay. I know quite a few this year that decided to return for senior year even after one turning down 100K. I don't think we need to start a discussion what Robert should do in 3 years.
#10 It's really none of any of our business what this fine young man and his family decides even though we can all post our opinions.
I agree!
As Fungo suggests, let's let it rest.
Why? Most players do finish HS, this is an unusual situation with a very very talented young player. Many players are asked to forego senior year, but they don't. Understand also that this is just not something you can do without meeting the criteria, which he has. This player is college material that's for sure!
#6 If money is not a variable, remove that aspect from the equation and look further down the road at the best opportunity to achieve the ultimate goal and pinnacle of playing in the Major Leagues....
I think this is pretty much understood when most players make a decision and many of us do beleive this to be true! This has never been an issue.
Don't some players choose college because they feel some programs give top instruction. USC certainly is not the only powerhouse school which you say is comparible to AA (which according to those in or affiliated with pro ball is not because of use of wood bats).
#9 Will someone please start a pro vs. senior year in college school thread in order to discuss all the joys and life experiences of continued education for Stock in 2009 opposed to signing professional contract after draft.
Are you suggesting that we begin discussion on whether a drafted player should finish college or sign a pro contract his sophomore or junior year. I think it is pretty much understood that MOST players will attend college for the college experience, earn most of their degree, grow and refine so that they become better prospects when they weren't out of HS. We all know MOST want out if they have opportunities to begin their careers and often they do stay. I know quite a few this year that decided to return for senior year even after one turning down 100K. I don't think we need to start a discussion what Robert should do in 3 years.
#10 It's really none of any of our business what this fine young man and his family decides even though we can all post our opinions.
I agree!
As Fungo suggests, let's let it rest.
We wish Robert the very best. The one thing going to college will do is allow him to further develop as both a pitcher and catcher. While most think he will be a hitter in pro ball, he has the arm to pitch. Three years in the Pac 10 should clear things up a bit.
Shep, I hope your kidding about that AA/Pac10 comparison. Most players in the Pac10 will not see professional baseball and many less will ever see AA.
There have been players who skipped their final high school year in order to get drafted. (Jeremy Bonderman) comes to mind. However Robert is the youngest one we know of to skip his final year. He and several others in the 07 class could play high level DI right now.
Also USC has a great track record of working with and developing catchers! We will be pulling for him all the way.
Shep, I hope your kidding about that AA/Pac10 comparison. Most players in the Pac10 will not see professional baseball and many less will ever see AA.
There have been players who skipped their final high school year in order to get drafted. (Jeremy Bonderman) comes to mind. However Robert is the youngest one we know of to skip his final year. He and several others in the 07 class could play high level DI right now.
Also USC has a great track record of working with and developing catchers! We will be pulling for him all the way.
I believe that the decision to focus primarily on catching was a major impetus in the decision making process given that Chad Kreuter is the head coach at USC.
USC is also fairly close to where the Stock's live so he'll have a support base close by to help him adjust to college life, something he wouldn't have if he had been drafted and signed out of HS.
He would have most likely spent his final season in HS being walked more often than not so there wasn't much opportunity for improvement there.
Stock is fairly young for his HS grade. If I remember correctly (and I could easily be wrong) he won't turn 17 until November sometime. He was fortunate that along with all that talent and hard work he was an early maturer. I'm guessing that when he didn't grow all that much in height (he's "only" about 6'1") after 12yo it affected his projection as a pitcher despite already having a 95 mph fastball at the age of 16.
All in all, I believe the Stocks have made a wise and innovative decision that challenges Robert while leaving his options wide open in the future. Think about it. He would have been a young 17yo if he had opted to stay in HS, get drafted and sign. Delmon Young did that and has had maturity issues despite the incredible talent. This way Robert will be a 19yo with 3 years of college experience when he becomes eligible for the draft. He gets the advantage of the college experience and yet is no older than some HS players going into the draft. Best of both worlds.
The only thing I don't like about the decision is that I never did get a chance to see Robert pitch against our HS team.
PG,
I think there may be some concern at this point about overusing his arm as a pitcher. JMO.
USC is also fairly close to where the Stock's live so he'll have a support base close by to help him adjust to college life, something he wouldn't have if he had been drafted and signed out of HS.
He would have most likely spent his final season in HS being walked more often than not so there wasn't much opportunity for improvement there.
Stock is fairly young for his HS grade. If I remember correctly (and I could easily be wrong) he won't turn 17 until November sometime. He was fortunate that along with all that talent and hard work he was an early maturer. I'm guessing that when he didn't grow all that much in height (he's "only" about 6'1") after 12yo it affected his projection as a pitcher despite already having a 95 mph fastball at the age of 16.
All in all, I believe the Stocks have made a wise and innovative decision that challenges Robert while leaving his options wide open in the future. Think about it. He would have been a young 17yo if he had opted to stay in HS, get drafted and sign. Delmon Young did that and has had maturity issues despite the incredible talent. This way Robert will be a 19yo with 3 years of college experience when he becomes eligible for the draft. He gets the advantage of the college experience and yet is no older than some HS players going into the draft. Best of both worlds.
The only thing I don't like about the decision is that I never did get a chance to see Robert pitch against our HS team.
PG,
I think there may be some concern at this point about overusing his arm as a pitcher. JMO.
Good luck to a solid student athlete.
Fungo, though I ordinarily agree with you, this time I don't. Certainly a decision had to be made with regard to the draft. This young man, like mine, just had to make his decision a year ahead of time (actually a year and a half). These decisions are much easier when the student athlete is as bright as this fellow. I can speak from experience when I say that the social factor is just as important. On that score, most of the few player's that have done this are leaders in the dugout. Imo, USC's tradition and class program will go along way in making him feel comfortable.
TPM....Maybe your son was asked to graduate early, but I can assure you there are NOT a lot of young men asked to skip thier senior year. It is indeed, rare.
Fungo, though I ordinarily agree with you, this time I don't. Certainly a decision had to be made with regard to the draft. This young man, like mine, just had to make his decision a year ahead of time (actually a year and a half). These decisions are much easier when the student athlete is as bright as this fellow. I can speak from experience when I say that the social factor is just as important. On that score, most of the few player's that have done this are leaders in the dugout. Imo, USC's tradition and class program will go along way in making him feel comfortable.
TPM....Maybe your son was asked to graduate early, but I can assure you there are NOT a lot of young men asked to skip thier senior year. It is indeed, rare.
CADad,
Very well put! Robert can choose his environment. That is not a bad thing. As soon as a person signs after the draft your choices are gone, either until you leave baseball, baseball leaves you or you are free agent eligible.
Very well put! Robert can choose his environment. That is not a bad thing. As soon as a person signs after the draft your choices are gone, either until you leave baseball, baseball leaves you or you are free agent eligible.
Catching and pitching? I hope he gets out of there healthy. I thought he'd only have to do it one more year in high school. Now he has to do it for 3 years at USC.
1410 SAT. Forget about baseball. This kid has got a chance to leave the rest of us behind.
wvmtr,
They were fairly careful at Agoura, mostly only throwing Stock as a closer until his junior season and then when he did have some arm issues during his junior season they quickly moved him to DH and let him rest his arm until it was fairly healthy again.
My guess is that Kreuter likes having the option of using him as a 94 mph closer but that the Stocks are going to want to focus on catching. Only time will tell.
They were fairly careful at Agoura, mostly only throwing Stock as a closer until his junior season and then when he did have some arm issues during his junior season they quickly moved him to DH and let him rest his arm until it was fairly healthy again.
My guess is that Kreuter likes having the option of using him as a 94 mph closer but that the Stocks are going to want to focus on catching. Only time will tell.
Congrats to the Stocks on even having this opportunity. It is a non trival accomplishment to be as successful in the classroom as this article indicates.
Soxnole, I don't think we disagree. Of course a player with the talent of Robert or your son will have to consider the draft and by graduating early from high school both had to consider that earlier than most. I was simply indicating that your son and Robert's situations are so unique that we shouldn’t attempt to consider them when debating the college vs. pro ball issue. I would think any player that skips his senior year of high school and plays college baseball in a major conference will be faced with greater challenges both on the field and off the field than a player with another year of baseball and maturity under his belt. These are different than your average pro vs college situations. I know my son graduated from high school when he was 17 and was drafted but opted for 3 years of college --- was drafted again as a junior, decided to go pro and was still only 20 yrs old so I have a taste of how age and maturity factor into the big picture. One has to admire these players that have the talent and the academic strength to forgo their senior year of high school and grab the bull by the horns. They have to be special people or they wouldn't be there. I’m sure there are risks involved that most like my self aren’t aware of. Having "been there - done that" could you give advice to others that may be contemplating this move?
Thanks,
Fungo
Thanks,
Fungo
As TPM points out:
Yep, that's about all most organizations are willing to put on the table for drafts unless they're top prospects that still have bargaining power after three years of college ball. Just wait and see how much dinero is on the table for senior college drafts if you think 100K is a low amount. It would be interesting to see a progression/digression chart on the trend of signing bonuses on HS draftees who bypass signing out of HS to go to college. I can think of a couple off the top that went from being offered about a million in HS signing bonus to not being drafted. I don't think this will be the case with young Robert Stock, at all. His predicted 2007 signing bonus might actually progress rather than digress in 2009 if he does what I think he is capable of doing with his present opportunity at USC.
PG Jerry, maybe I am kidding about AA equivalency in PAC10 caliber of play and should say "A" ball instead. You are also right about both pitching and catching because of his great arm. How can USC not allow Stock to close ? It will be interesting to see how young Stock comparatively handles the role that Weiters has handled for GA TECH. Will Stock be physically able to catch 8 innings, take equipment off between innings, run down to bullpen, warmup and enter game as closer in 9th throwing 94-96MPH with nasty sliders??? That would be the pinnacle of achievement in college anyway!! Especially if you lead your college team to Omaha! peace, Shep
quote:I know quite a few this year that decided to return for senior year even after one turning down 100K.
Yep, that's about all most organizations are willing to put on the table for drafts unless they're top prospects that still have bargaining power after three years of college ball. Just wait and see how much dinero is on the table for senior college drafts if you think 100K is a low amount. It would be interesting to see a progression/digression chart on the trend of signing bonuses on HS draftees who bypass signing out of HS to go to college. I can think of a couple off the top that went from being offered about a million in HS signing bonus to not being drafted. I don't think this will be the case with young Robert Stock, at all. His predicted 2007 signing bonus might actually progress rather than digress in 2009 if he does what I think he is capable of doing with his present opportunity at USC.
PG Jerry, maybe I am kidding about AA equivalency in PAC10 caliber of play and should say "A" ball instead. You are also right about both pitching and catching because of his great arm. How can USC not allow Stock to close ? It will be interesting to see how young Stock comparatively handles the role that Weiters has handled for GA TECH. Will Stock be physically able to catch 8 innings, take equipment off between innings, run down to bullpen, warmup and enter game as closer in 9th throwing 94-96MPH with nasty sliders??? That would be the pinnacle of achievement in college anyway!! Especially if you lead your college team to Omaha! peace, Shep
Shep,
I agree takes away bargaining power, but I know in this case the junior wanted his degree. And this junior was drafted very low.
I know of a senior who got 80K this year. He wasn't drafted before that. I know of a senior that once became the 13th overall pick and got millions.
Essentially, there are very few players that have the star quality to pass up junior years draft bonus, they will make it anyway in the end, no matter what they do.
There are some parents here who have players that passed up junior year draft signing. I think they will tell you that was their choice and would not have it any other way.
There are also many who get to their junior year and realize that perhaps, not having a career in baseball is not life ending.
I agree takes away bargaining power, but I know in this case the junior wanted his degree. And this junior was drafted very low.
I know of a senior who got 80K this year. He wasn't drafted before that. I know of a senior that once became the 13th overall pick and got millions.
Essentially, there are very few players that have the star quality to pass up junior years draft bonus, they will make it anyway in the end, no matter what they do.
There are some parents here who have players that passed up junior year draft signing. I think they will tell you that was their choice and would not have it any other way.
There are also many who get to their junior year and realize that perhaps, not having a career in baseball is not life ending.
quote:TPM posted: There are also many who get to their junior year and realize that perhaps, not having a career in baseball is not life ending.
There are plenty ready to move on after college without baseball. Baseball is part of players lives, but not their lives.
quote:Shep posted: maybe I am kidding about AA equivalency in PAC10 caliber of play and should say "A" ball instead.
Seriously? I'm sure the PAC 10 plays wonderful baseball. I've seen alot of Florida State League and Southern League games and a bunch of SEC & Sunbelt games. jmo but overall difference in quantity of quality, depth and height of talent, of each type is absolutley glaring.
I'm thinking West Tennessee Diamond Jax would completely pound Oregon State every day of the week.
Dad04, Amen. I once had a good friend who was a top D1 coach for over 20 years and he came up with the talk about his team that year (very good team) being the equivalent of a "AA" team. I told him that he only had two players on his club that would ever get as high as "AA".
Dad04, I am glad you posted those comments. I have been sitting here most of the day thinking about bbscout and what he would say about equating the Pac 10 to AA and A ball. I think bbscout got to be very gracious, as he always is when this topic is mentioned. 
Having seen some A games and some D1 regional games this year I'd have to say good D1 teams, even if they were used to wood bats, would not do well in an A league. I do think they might be able to win a game or two at that level because some of the college pitchers are very good and perhaps be able to win a few more than that vs short season A which is comprised to some degree of players just out of college but advanced A and AA would be completely out of their reach. Probably one of the only things that would give the college teams any chance was that there were a few players at the low A level just out of HS who were there because they had the talent and not because they had the baseball skills of the other players on the field. On the other hand I watched Adenhart pitch in low A ball and he would have dominated in D1 ball just as he did in A ball despite the aluminum bats. I hope FBmom doesn't mind my using A.J. as an example but he was a very good college pitcher who was quite effective in short season A ball. He moved up to A ball and had to go through a learning process before he could be effective there. He has since moved up to advanced A and seems to be doing fairly well although he's still learning. (It isn't a pitcher's league at all, so you have to be careful when looking at stats.) A very good college pitcher like A.J. would most likely have been hit quite hard if he had tried to pitch against A level teams given where his development was in college.
The one disappointment I had this year was seeing AAA ball where the talent and the skills were there but the effort wasn't in comparison to A ball.
The one disappointment I had this year was seeing AAA ball where the talent and the skills were there but the effort wasn't in comparison to A ball.
BB brings up a valid point and I second that Amen. Good to hear it from one with experience.
The following writing has nothing to do with Robert Stock but is relevant to college recruiting. As I already mentioned, young Stock has my blessings no matter what for his talent, passion and strong desire to attain the highest levels of baseball.
Here's a mock scenerio for the college side. It gives me great joy to bring one of my associate's experience and training as Powerhouse Div I recruiter and current scout to the HSBBW messageboard for practice for my heroes out there who seek practical knowledge and experience here.
Hope some of this somewhat hilarious scenerio just sent in an email to me from a a former West Coast DIV I recruiter and current scout helps some of you understand the goal of the colleges recruiting your sons. Keep in mind, this school of thought is opposed to HS prospects signing for sizable bonuses as HS draftees.
In fact, I suppose I've heard so many DIV I coaches and recruiters sell their programs on a caliber of baseball equivalent to professional baseball that I started believing it Guess their just doing and saying whatever it takes to reel em in. Typical pitch of the "Life of a Salesman" in the form of a recruiter.
Here it is in paraphrased wording> College Recruiter says: Leave that money on the table and come on over here to my college and enjoy the college experience and play top caliber of competition son. We will take good care of you and help you get that education. We will give you food to eat, a place to lay your head each night and a quality education while playing great baseball. In fact, we play AA caliber baseball and you won't miss anything. You'll get the best of both worlds. The college life and competitive baseball all rolled into to one package. What else can you ask for? That money will be there in three years you're leaving on the table now. Don't worry about that money you're turning down now. You'll get a degree and make plenty of money one day. You will have that degree to fall back on one day. Those pro teams will be back. Don't you worry one bit. Besides, you're not gonna see any of these malibu college ladies and meet a good quality lady our college campus has to offer in pro ball Come on son, we have you're best interest at heart and just want what's best for ya We will even throw in the cost for your books. If that's not enough we will look into an off-campus apartment opposed to a dormitory room. We will send one of our admission assistants over to take you for a tour of our campus. Don't give me an answer now till you do a little touring around our olympic size swimming pool with sorority row and ladies dormitories right beside the pool.
Next Day: Well what do you think son?
Prospect says, Where's that letter-of-intent, I'm signing.
Peace,
Shep
The following writing has nothing to do with Robert Stock but is relevant to college recruiting. As I already mentioned, young Stock has my blessings no matter what for his talent, passion and strong desire to attain the highest levels of baseball.
Here's a mock scenerio for the college side. It gives me great joy to bring one of my associate's experience and training as Powerhouse Div I recruiter and current scout to the HSBBW messageboard for practice for my heroes out there who seek practical knowledge and experience here.
Hope some of this somewhat hilarious scenerio just sent in an email to me from a a former West Coast DIV I recruiter and current scout helps some of you understand the goal of the colleges recruiting your sons. Keep in mind, this school of thought is opposed to HS prospects signing for sizable bonuses as HS draftees.
In fact, I suppose I've heard so many DIV I coaches and recruiters sell their programs on a caliber of baseball equivalent to professional baseball that I started believing it
Guess their just doing and saying whatever it takes to reel em in. Typical pitch of the "Life of a Salesman" in the form of a recruiter. Here it is in paraphrased wording> College Recruiter says: Leave that money on the table and come on over here to my college and enjoy the college experience and play top caliber of competition son. We will take good care of you and help you get that education. We will give you food to eat, a place to lay your head each night and a quality education while playing great baseball. In fact, we play AA caliber baseball and you won't miss anything. You'll get the best of both worlds. The college life and competitive baseball all rolled into to one package. What else can you ask for? That money will be there in three years you're leaving on the table now. Don't worry about that money you're turning down now. You'll get a degree and make plenty of money one day. You will have that degree to fall back on one day. Those pro teams will be back. Don't you worry one bit. Besides, you're not gonna see any of these malibu college ladies and meet a good quality lady our college campus has to offer in pro ball
Come on son, we have you're best interest at heart and just want what's best for ya We will even throw in the cost for your books. If that's not enough we will look into an off-campus apartment opposed to a dormitory room. We will send one of our admission assistants over to take you for a tour of our campus. Don't give me an answer now till you do a little touring around our olympic size swimming pool with sorority row and ladies dormitories right beside the pool.Next Day: Well what do you think son?
Prospect says, Where's that letter-of-intent, I'm signing.
Peace,
Shep
quote:BB brings up a valid point and I second that Amen. Good to hear it from one with experience.
Shep, when bbscout posts, I usually
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
I have been sitting here most of the day thinking about bbscout and what he would say about equating the Pac 10 to AA and A ball. I think bbscout got to be very gracious, as he always is when this topic is mentioned.
As always BBScout is gracious, but you and I need hobbies....
Shep,
I have read the above post over three times to understand what your intent is, being friday after a long week, I am tired, but here's what I am getting, correct me if I am wrong.
"Hope some of this somewhat hilarious scenerio just sent in an email to me from a a former West Coast DIV I recruiter and current scout helps some of you understand the goal of the colleges recruiting your sons. Keep in mind, this school of thought is opposed to HS prospects signing for sizable bonuses as HS draftees."
I personally never found that the coach who recruited my son was nothing more than honest about what they were offering and how his experience would be. Many here know who he is, a very charming guy, yes a very good coach, hard worker (PG Jerry brings himup all of the time) and yes, a good salesman.
I think more and more coaches realize that more and more players and their parents are educated to the process and know the pitfalls of going to college vs pro after HS.
You stated in a post that many college coaches recruit the top players in the country KNOWING they would never set foot on campus, this is just a plus for recruting, and I agree. I think it's the middle of the draft pick kids they focus in on more than the milion dollar guys.
Any coach who has a player drafted high, knowing he would pass up millions to go to school is smart enough to know the decision lies with the player and family and would never deny a player a chance for financial freedom and to play MLB someday. Most coaches know maybe one or two who get drafted from their program MAY make it to AA and most not likely ever play on a major league field. They are not all sleazy guys as you are suggesting.
"In fact, I suppose I've heard so many DIV I coaches and recruiters sell their programs on a caliber of baseball equivalent to professional baseball that I started believing it Guess their just doing and saying whatever it takes to reel em in. Typical pitch of the "Life of a Salesman" in the form of a recruiter."
I never once heard any college coach say that their program was better or equivalent to major league baseball. If they did, I would asume their program was in desperate need of repair. Those type of statments are said in desperation to a recruit. I may be wrong here, but I never heard that said to son. Travel accomodations better yes, but that was about it. If I heard it I wouldn't beleive it, why would a person involved in the pro world beleive it? 
In this so called funny scenerio are you talking about a late (June,July) recruited and drafted player who has to decide whether to go to college or sign that summer before he sets foot on campus or are you talking about a player signed in November, April who most likely has had discussions with coaches regarding the draft, before he signed?
I know my son's coach works hand in hand with many scouts and has scouting relationships all over the country. Are you suggesting scouts and college coaches don't like each other? Is it because they have to compete for teh same player? I think you will find many many professional scouts referring players to college programs. In fact I heard tell of a scouting director telling friend his son should go to college first. That doesn't sound like the two professions don't care for one another, as your scenerio is suggesting. In fact, never once did any scout we talk to speak badly about the coaches or did the coaches ever speak badly about any scout who visited. One scout who visited us was a player under son's pitching coach at FAU, so how's that for proof of relationships.
I kind of place college recruiters and scouts in the same category, salesman, both trying to do the job they are paid for. I would imagine good/bad scouts and their are good/bad college recruiters. It's up to the player and his family to sort it out on their own, with advice to try to figure out who is being the most honest and the most concerned for their sons future. JMO.
Infielddad,
Agree with you, wish Doug would post more often!
I have read the above post over three times to understand what your intent is, being friday after a long week, I am tired, but here's what I am getting, correct me if I am wrong.
"Hope some of this somewhat hilarious scenerio just sent in an email to me from a a former West Coast DIV I recruiter and current scout helps some of you understand the goal of the colleges recruiting your sons. Keep in mind, this school of thought is opposed to HS prospects signing for sizable bonuses as HS draftees."
I personally never found that the coach who recruited my son was nothing more than honest about what they were offering and how his experience would be. Many here know who he is, a very charming guy, yes a very good coach, hard worker (PG Jerry brings himup all of the time) and yes, a good salesman.
I think more and more coaches realize that more and more players and their parents are educated to the process and know the pitfalls of going to college vs pro after HS.
You stated in a post that many college coaches recruit the top players in the country KNOWING they would never set foot on campus, this is just a plus for recruting, and I agree. I think it's the middle of the draft pick kids they focus in on more than the milion dollar guys.
Any coach who has a player drafted high, knowing he would pass up millions to go to school is smart enough to know the decision lies with the player and family and would never deny a player a chance for financial freedom and to play MLB someday. Most coaches know maybe one or two who get drafted from their program MAY make it to AA and most not likely ever play on a major league field. They are not all sleazy guys as you are suggesting.
"In fact, I suppose I've heard so many DIV I coaches and recruiters sell their programs on a caliber of baseball equivalent to professional baseball that I started believing it Guess their just doing and saying whatever it takes to reel em in. Typical pitch of the "Life of a Salesman" in the form of a recruiter."
I never once heard any college coach say that their program was better or equivalent to major league baseball. If they did, I would asume their program was in desperate need of repair. Those type of statments are said in desperation to a recruit. I may be wrong here, but I never heard that said to son. Travel accomodations better yes, but that was about it.
If I heard it I wouldn't beleive it, why would a person involved in the pro world beleive it? In this so called funny scenerio are you talking about a late (June,July) recruited and drafted player who has to decide whether to go to college or sign that summer before he sets foot on campus or are you talking about a player signed in November, April who most likely has had discussions with coaches regarding the draft, before he signed?
I know my son's coach works hand in hand with many scouts and has scouting relationships all over the country. Are you suggesting scouts and college coaches don't like each other? Is it because they have to compete for teh same player? I think you will find many many professional scouts referring players to college programs. In fact I heard tell of a scouting director telling friend his son should go to college first. That doesn't sound like the two professions don't care for one another, as your scenerio is suggesting. In fact, never once did any scout we talk to speak badly about the coaches or did the coaches ever speak badly about any scout who visited. One scout who visited us was a player under son's pitching coach at FAU, so how's that for proof of relationships.
I kind of place college recruiters and scouts in the same category, salesman, both trying to do the job they are paid for. I would imagine good/bad scouts and their are good/bad college recruiters. It's up to the player and his family to sort it out on their own, with advice to try to figure out who is being the most honest and the most concerned for their sons future. JMO.
Infielddad,
Agree with you, wish Doug would post more often!
One more thought.
I always thought college recruitiers were in competition with other college recruiters, so I would imagine that somewhere along the line they try to discourage a recruit from attending another school. I think they are a little bit more classy when it comes to a player going pro.
I don't want parents reading this to think that this is what college recruiters say and do.
I always thought college recruitiers were in competition with other college recruiters, so I would imagine that somewhere along the line they try to discourage a recruit from attending another school. I think they are a little bit more classy when it comes to a player going pro.
I don't want parents reading this to think that this is what college recruiters say and do.
TPM says:
TPM: What I think my friend who emailed me this scenerio meant was in the timeframe of June/July post draft after at least one negotiation and tendered offer from pro team.
I also know for a fact this email comes from someone who is well-connected with college and pro recruiters alike and has no ill-intentions against either. His writing doesn't suggest to me that college recruiters are sleazers as you are suggesting in his email to me at all. I don't think I changed his wording that much.
Scouts and Coaches have respect for one another, some more than others. They are candid with one another and sometimes in more frequent contact to confirm pitching rotations, etc.
Middle round HS draftees get sizable bonuses too. Look at the lists posted in Pro Vs College thread we just posted in recently.
I know you said you were tired and I respect that and will stop there. Have a good night and best regards to the hubby and DK peace, Shep
quote:In this so called funny scenerio are you talking about a late (June,July) recruited and drafted player who has to decide whether to go to college or sign that summer before he sets foot on campus or are you talking about a player signed in November, April who most likely has had discussions with coaches regarding the draft, before he signed?
TPM: What I think my friend who emailed me this scenerio meant was in the timeframe of June/July post draft after at least one negotiation and tendered offer from pro team.
I also know for a fact this email comes from someone who is well-connected with college and pro recruiters alike and has no ill-intentions against either. His writing doesn't suggest to me that college recruiters are sleazers as you are suggesting in his email to me at all. I don't think I changed his wording that much.
Scouts and Coaches have respect for one another, some more than others. They are candid with one another and sometimes in more frequent contact to confirm pitching rotations, etc.
Middle round HS draftees get sizable bonuses too. Look at the lists posted in Pro Vs College thread we just posted in recently.
I know you said you were tired and I respect that and will stop there. Have a good night and best regards to the hubby and DK
peace, Shep
CaDad
I meant to post this last night but thought it would be better to wait till today.
FBM's son AJ was just promoted to AA about three weeks ago Also, we all need to keep FBM on our prayer list
<Edited by Shep> Peace, Shep
I meant to post this last night but thought it would be better to wait till today.
FBM's son AJ was just promoted to AA about three weeks ago
Also, we all need to keep FBM on our prayer list<Edited by Shep> Peace, Shep
Gee, I know Dad04 pretty well and I was assuming he only meant he needed a hobby due to boredom anticipating the start of his son's baseball season. I don't think there was anything directed towards anyone else but infielddad and himself.
Shep, Who are you the Director of Scouting with?
BBScout,
I will send you a PM. Thanks Doug peace, Shep
I will send you a PM. Thanks Doug
peace, Shep