Shep,
That's what I get for trying to work from memory. AJ did very well at South Bend in A ball before moving up to advanced A where he struggled at first but did well overall in a very strong hitters league before being moved up to the Smokies recently.
The point I was trying to make was how college pitchers matched up against lower level minor league ball. AJ, who is a smart pitcher with great control was able to dominate through low A and then had a learning process to go through to compete in an advanced A league which is a hitters haven.
This gives some indication where the more sophisticated college pitchers stand coming out of college relative to the lower minors. On the other hand I've seen how some some college pitchers with more stuff than sophistication can struggle in the low minors, where they are facing more talent than they did in college, until they learn how to pitch.
FBmom,
Sorry for messing up.
Fungo, our situation was different in that the school approached us. Different in that the offer was made in October with about 1 month to decide.
It was similar in one major respect, the offer was from the school he alway's wanted to attend.
As a parent the academics have to be number one. After that the social aspect is an obvious major concern.
My son was 100% on board having committed 15 months earlier. His grades and scores were fine. Many of his friends were older and already in college. All of this made our decision easy.
Our comfort level and confidence with the coaching staff iced it. In retrospect we'd have been crazy not to take the leap.
Good luck to Robert and his family. To them I would say look for a sophomore on campus named Alex Kuby. Great young man, great student and a very close friend of my son. I'm sure he could share some info that I'm not privy to!
It was similar in one major respect, the offer was from the school he alway's wanted to attend.
As a parent the academics have to be number one. After that the social aspect is an obvious major concern.
My son was 100% on board having committed 15 months earlier. His grades and scores were fine. Many of his friends were older and already in college. All of this made our decision easy.
Our comfort level and confidence with the coaching staff iced it. In retrospect we'd have been crazy not to take the leap.
Good luck to Robert and his family. To them I would say look for a sophomore on campus named Alex Kuby. Great young man, great student and a very close friend of my son. I'm sure he could share some info that I'm not privy to!
quote:Originally posted by Shepster:
CaDad
I meant to post this last night but thought it would be better to wait till today.
FBM's son AJ was just promoted to AA about three weeks agoAlso, we all need to keep FBM on our prayer list
<Edited by Shep> TPM, maybe you're right about that but you don't know the whole story from our phone tag earlier about his son trying to get signed. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and be kind because I do like him but everything I just posted was true and BTW, I'm not an associate DOS either. That title leaves way too much room for criticism and doubt for mePeace, Shep
You edited and deleted I have no idea what you are talking about.
If referring to my post regarding Dad04 and hobby, I don't think his hobby comment had anything to do with your posts.
CADad,
Thanks for bringing up AJ,I think most knew the point you were making. He is a former COLLEGE pitcher in AA, some of those college guys do make it there!
Rainy afternoon here in South Florida
We are off-topic and high-jacking thread.
It's rainy here too.
Peace,
Shep
It's rainy here too.
Peace,
Shep
Shep,
You did address TPM in the post, I really didn't know what or who you were talking about. I never said one thing about yur comments about DOS, did I?
Then below is my post, which is like, what the heck is she talking about.
I'll go ahead and delete my post, ok, makes more sense right? Then we are back to square one.
I don't think I have done anything wrong Shep, no reason to forgive me only if you feel you need to. You certainly don't have to answer to me.
Sorry again, but once again you did address me in the post.
And I do beleive we have gotten off the topic.
You did address TPM in the post, I really didn't know what or who you were talking about. I never said one thing about yur comments about DOS, did I?
Then below is my post, which is like, what the heck is she talking about.
I'll go ahead and delete my post, ok, makes more sense right? Then we are back to square one.
I don't think I have done anything wrong Shep, no reason to forgive me only if you feel you need to. You certainly don't have to answer to me.
Sorry again, but once again you did address me in the post.
And I do beleive we have gotten off the topic.
Shep
Just to be clear. I was addressing Infielddad regarding a new hobby. Sorry for any offense taken.
Just to be clear. I was addressing Infielddad regarding a new hobby. Sorry for any offense taken.
Dad04
I apologize for my part in that fiasco. peace
I apologize for my part in that fiasco. peace
No problem at all CADad about the mixup about AJ and I totally agree with your comments regarding the player's progression through the minors. It has been my experience that even seasoned college pitchers have to make adjustments when reaching the pro levels of the minor league hierarchy. All that talk about a pitcher out of college being head and shoulders above the rest is bologna. There are exceptions to the rule as in Luke Hochevar. Even though Hochevar didn't play college ball last year he did play the year before at UT. Of course his agent had a long drawn-out negotiation battle with LA and this pitcher never signed out of 2005 draft. So Hochevar goes back in the 2006 draft while playing independent ball, while at the same time, he's getting valuable mound time against mostly former pro hitters with wood bats. He does well there so the MLB teams at the top of the heap in priorty of selection order know for a fact that Hochevar is really ready He is a mature and seasoned starter with a fresh arm and can pitch with success.
With this in mind, KC wisely scooped him up as their first pick because of the realization that, "hey this guy can help our big league club now". This is an example of the exception and it is my deep down gut feelings that Stock we be an exception also, just like Hochevar. Three years is a long way off, I realize. I think Stock will be fine as mentioned by another poster in this thread and will also be an exception to this rule because of his high mental aptitude and his desire. peace, Shep
He is a mature and seasoned starter with a fresh arm and can pitch with success.With this in mind, KC wisely scooped him up as their first pick because of the realization that, "hey this guy can help our big league club now". This is an example of the exception and it is my deep down gut feelings that Stock we be an exception also, just like Hochevar. Three years is a long way off, I realize. I think Stock will be fine as mentioned by another poster in this thread and will also be an exception to this rule because of his high mental aptitude and his desire. peace, Shep
JMO but i think that Hank Conger being drafted in the first round and signing, might have had some play in the decision. Otherwise, it would have been Hank who was USC's catcher of the future. I had also heard that Robert had some arm issues and had not pitched at all over the summer, only one inning during the AFLAC game.
Has anybody ever thought that Player's sometimes want to play the whole Game.
Meaning being a 2-way Player as long as they can before it become's a Career Decision!!
I would not want to be pigeon holed into making a decision that early, If your able to not only Pitch, but hit for power,and play more then one defensive position.
Some College's allow you to do both.
How about the Pro's do they allow 2 way player's to continue??
JMHO EH
Meaning being a 2-way Player as long as they can before it become's a Career Decision!!
I would not want to be pigeon holed into making a decision that early, If your able to not only Pitch, but hit for power,and play more then one defensive position.
Some College's allow you to do both.
How about the Pro's do they allow 2 way player's to continue??
JMHO EH
EH,
Many players want to play the whole game, it's not uncommon. And many players get recruited for one position end of playing another. It's all based on teams's needs sometimes. I know of a catcher who was converted to pitcher, topping 100 in college after 29 innings pitched only in his college career was drafted in the 4th round. Another player was starting pitcher and DH, and drafted as a position player in the second round. His dad, former MLB pitcher had told me that he was hoping the organiation would allow him to work on both skills. It just so happened his dad played 10 years for the organization that drafted his son, so I would imagine some things were discussed before he was drafted. Point is here, neither one drafted out of HS would have had an option going into pro ball as to what he did best. Their best came out in college, which is what I suppose wil happen to Robert Stock (someone else mentioned this).
Shep,
I don't think one person here will argue that any player or pitcher coming out of college is ready to head directly to MLB. We all know that seldom happens, and the decision is often based on need for the organization. That's why these special players are drafted high in the first place. The only advantage is that they are older and more mature as an individaul as in the case of Hochever. I don't remember one person posting here that a college pitcher is good to go asap.
The decision made for him was a decision made for him and him alone, not to compare him with any other player. We are talking 3 years down the road, hard to predict anything at this point, let's just let the kid enjoy his and his parents decision.
As most here, I wish the player lots of luck, he will be one of the lucky ones who will most likely reap the benefits of both experiences.
Many players want to play the whole game, it's not uncommon. And many players get recruited for one position end of playing another. It's all based on teams's needs sometimes. I know of a catcher who was converted to pitcher, topping 100 in college after 29 innings pitched only in his college career was drafted in the 4th round. Another player was starting pitcher and DH, and drafted as a position player in the second round. His dad, former MLB pitcher had told me that he was hoping the organiation would allow him to work on both skills. It just so happened his dad played 10 years for the organization that drafted his son, so I would imagine some things were discussed before he was drafted. Point is here, neither one drafted out of HS would have had an option going into pro ball as to what he did best. Their best came out in college, which is what I suppose wil happen to Robert Stock (someone else mentioned this).
Shep,
I don't think one person here will argue that any player or pitcher coming out of college is ready to head directly to MLB. We all know that seldom happens, and the decision is often based on need for the organization. That's why these special players are drafted high in the first place. The only advantage is that they are older and more mature as an individaul as in the case of Hochever. I don't remember one person posting here that a college pitcher is good to go asap.
The decision made for him was a decision made for him and him alone, not to compare him with any other player. We are talking 3 years down the road, hard to predict anything at this point, let's just let the kid enjoy his and his parents decision.
As most here, I wish the player lots of luck, he will be one of the lucky ones who will most likely reap the benefits of both experiences.
Shep, I have no doubt that from low A ball on, that the baseball talent overall is much, much better than College Div1.
I don't believe anyone can dispute that.
But to say that Baseball player's wont get good Quality Training in College is Wrong.
As you know the Minor league's can be a very lonely road.
And not alway's a Team atmosphere.
You keep talking about big bonus money for Top round pick's how about middle to low round pick's.
Even top 10 round pick's get a small amount.
90 grand, and let's start your Pro Career. Buy a car, payoff your debt's. And live off of $900.00 a month.
Share an apartment with 6 other guy's to make your salary go farther.
And the one's I know about that signed out of HS.
Batting .200 or below and struggling.
Are they better off in the Minor's??
Some Player's are better off going to the minor's, and some Player's are better off going to college.
And there Talent will win out in the END.
Good luck to Robert Stock and his Family.
They have a goal and a plan.
And most of all the love of the game. EH
I don't believe anyone can dispute that.
But to say that Baseball player's wont get good Quality Training in College is Wrong.
As you know the Minor league's can be a very lonely road.
And not alway's a Team atmosphere.
You keep talking about big bonus money for Top round pick's how about middle to low round pick's.
Even top 10 round pick's get a small amount.
90 grand, and let's start your Pro Career. Buy a car, payoff your debt's. And live off of $900.00 a month.
Share an apartment with 6 other guy's to make your salary go farther.
And the one's I know about that signed out of HS.
Batting .200 or below and struggling.
Are they better off in the Minor's??
Some Player's are better off going to the minor's, and some Player's are better off going to college.
And there Talent will win out in the END.
Good luck to Robert Stock and his Family.
They have a goal and a plan.
And most of all the love of the game. EH
First of all, my very best wishes to this young man, and especially as I'm an SC alum and big fan of the program, but....
He is 16 years old and my gut tells me this is a mistake.
First of all, as far as the SAT score, my son scored over 1400. Don't see a board score as dispositive of any issues or as a relevant factor to a 16 year old having to compete in a university classroom, especially as he gained admission through a special honors program, which was apparently the only way SC would allow it to go given his age.
On the field, talented as he may be, he'll be competing against 19-22 year old men (again, he is 16), playing in a tough, tough conference.
If he's there just for the baseball
but, there is waaaaaaaay more to college and at 16 where does that place him with respect to the world of social issues he will certainly face. From what I understand he doesn't even have a driver's license.
Also of note in the local papers they compare him to USC quarterback Booty, who skipped his senior HS season. But Booty had been held back in grad school and turned 19 as he entered USC.
One last thing, USC is in a transition year with an entirely new coaching staff which can be an unsettled/unsettling situation.
All things considered, USC has been around since about 1888 with no sign of soon closing down. I think the kid shoulda waited one more year, as should SC's new coach. Just not sure I understand what the rush is about. But, hoping the best for all of 'em
He is 16 years old and my gut tells me this is a mistake.
First of all, as far as the SAT score, my son scored over 1400. Don't see a board score as dispositive of any issues or as a relevant factor to a 16 year old having to compete in a university classroom, especially as he gained admission through a special honors program, which was apparently the only way SC would allow it to go given his age.
On the field, talented as he may be, he'll be competing against 19-22 year old men (again, he is 16), playing in a tough, tough conference.
If he's there just for the baseball
but, there is waaaaaaaay more to college and at 16 where does that place him with respect to the world of social issues he will certainly face. From what I understand he doesn't even have a driver's license.
Also of note in the local papers they compare him to USC quarterback Booty, who skipped his senior HS season. But Booty had been held back in grad school and turned 19 as he entered USC.
One last thing, USC is in a transition year with an entirely new coaching staff which can be an unsettled/unsettling situation.
All things considered, USC has been around since about 1888 with no sign of soon closing down. I think the kid shoulda waited one more year, as should SC's new coach. Just not sure I understand what the rush is about. But, hoping the best for all of 'em
I don't understand how people can think that he would be a first round draft pick next year, but think that he is not ready to play D1 baseball this year.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is a bad idea. My son's scores were about 600 points higher, his gpa was higher and he has been designated a merit scholar by being in the top 5% of students in the state. When I asked him about this he said he wouldn't do that to his team or his high school coach. There is something to be said for Loyalty. What kind of impact did this have on his high school team? What about the other catchers at USC?
What's good for the goose, isn't necesarily good for the gander.
Wish this young man luck and move on people.
On the flip side, the decision gives his HS backup the opportunity to show he has the goods.
Wish this young man luck and move on people.
On the flip side, the decision gives his HS backup the opportunity to show he has the goods.
I believe he got a 1400 out of of the 1600 scale, meaning which would translate to a 2100 if we were to assume he kept the same ratio. GPA does not have the same merit that the SAT does because it depends on teachers and the school. SAT is a constant nation-wide standard.
I would think that a high school coach would want to see his player attend a D1 college program and that it would be something against the coach if he didn't understand that.
I also doubt that your son had the opportunity nor the skills (he may, I don't know, chances say he doesn't) on the baseball diamond to compare to this player so what your son thinks about it may differ to what Stock thinks about it.
In the end, people will judge this based on how he does on the baseball field. If he struggles or injures himself it will be the stupidest decision he could have made. If he excels and comes out a first rounder then he couldn't have done anything better.
I would think that a high school coach would want to see his player attend a D1 college program and that it would be something against the coach if he didn't understand that.
I also doubt that your son had the opportunity nor the skills (he may, I don't know, chances say he doesn't) on the baseball diamond to compare to this player so what your son thinks about it may differ to what Stock thinks about it.
In the end, people will judge this based on how he does on the baseball field. If he struggles or injures himself it will be the stupidest decision he could have made. If he excels and comes out a first rounder then he couldn't have done anything better.
no-e2
You can speak for yourself but not for others.
I'm sure his HS teamates and coach are cheering him on! If not, then the decision was ABSOLUTELY correct!
Each situation is different. Each player, school and coach stands alone.
You can speak for yourself but not for others.
I'm sure his HS teamates and coach are cheering him on! If not, then the decision was ABSOLUTELY correct!
Each situation is different. Each player, school and coach stands alone.
In the years I have visited this site the ongoing (and I believe correct) mantra has been to pick a college that fits you, to pick a college that you'd like to be at if baseball does not pan out. the importance of education and the error of putting all your eggs in the baseball basket has been repeatedly pointed to.
Of the dozens and dozens of kids my son played high school, travel, club and college ball with, only one we know of is still playing. with that said, 16 year olds belong in high school, not college. He is attending a University and everything that goes with that, not a baseball camp and in my humble opinion, I think this is a mistake; and, being a follower of the USC program, I am hard pressed to believe that the previous coaching staffs of Coach Gillespie and Coach Dedeaux would have brought in a 16 year old.
Of the dozens and dozens of kids my son played high school, travel, club and college ball with, only one we know of is still playing. with that said, 16 year olds belong in high school, not college. He is attending a University and everything that goes with that, not a baseball camp and in my humble opinion, I think this is a mistake; and, being a follower of the USC program, I am hard pressed to believe that the previous coaching staffs of Coach Gillespie and Coach Dedeaux would have brought in a 16 year old.
Hey sox, I thought that's what I was doing. Speaking for myself. Just like the other 8548 registered members. There's three pages of folks speaking their mind on this topic. And quite frankly, I'm in the minority. Doesn't change my opinion though.
Im not going to debate wether he should have left HS early or not. Landon Powell left HS early and he had a nice career for the Gamecocks. But Landon was a polished catcher entering the college ranks and I believe he was 18 when he actually enrolled. My point is this. I only have the AFLAC game to base this on because I have never seen Stock play before much less catch. He is not even close to being ready to catch at that level. Does he have a great arm? Yes. Is he extremely gifted as a baseball player with power at the plate? Yes. He is ready to catch at the D-1 level? NO. Will he ever be ready to catch at the D-1 level? We dont know yet. Moving to another posistion because you hit from the left side and have a strong arm does not mean in itself that you can develop the skills that it takes to play this posistion at a high level. Quite frankly the jury is still out on wether he can play this posistion at this level. From what I saw - Several passed balls. Hard hands. Balls completely missed. Terrible throws to second base he was absolutely abused by the base runners. Granted the pitchers were not holding anyone thats for sure. But I did not see one throw anywhere near the bag. Does he have the skills to develop into a catcher at this level? We will see. No way in my opinion does he step behind the plate next year for USC. He may dh. He may pitch etc. JMO from what I saw in the AFLAC game. I am not slamming this young man. Im sure he is a fine young man. And he is extremely talented from what I have read about him and heard from those that know. But that in itself does not make you a D-1 catcher. And it sure does not make you capable of stepping behind the plate as a freshman at a school like USC. Catching is different folks. Most outstanding catchers are born with certain natural abilities that they can refine with years of hard work. We will see. I am a little hesitant to post this because he is only 16 and really just a kid. But I feel that many are so focused on the arm the hitting that they just assume that he can step behind the dish. It aint that easy.
Finally. Someone who understands there is more to being a catcher than a big kid who can hit.
No-e2: I think you misread his scores. He didn't score 1410 on all three parts of the SAT. He scored 1410 on the "traditional" two parts. If your son scored over 2000 he did very well indeed, but probably still not as well as Stock.
I think Coach May has many good points about Stock's catching, but consider this. He's been his HS team's primary catcher for some time now and apparently he's not getting the instruction he needs to hone the natural gifts he has. At USC, he'll play for a former MLB catcher. Sounds like a good career move if his goal is to become an MLB catcher. Maybe some day he can play for another former MLB catcher -- someone like Scocia, Girardi, or Torre.
I think Coach May has many good points about Stock's catching, but consider this. He's been his HS team's primary catcher for some time now and apparently he's not getting the instruction he needs to hone the natural gifts he has. At USC, he'll play for a former MLB catcher. Sounds like a good career move if his goal is to become an MLB catcher. Maybe some day he can play for another former MLB catcher -- someone like Scocia, Girardi, or Torre.