Rockwall/Longview

Too bad for the seniors for sure. But it's on the coaches not the umpire. Umpire doesn't and shouldn't put up with continuous mouthing from coaches. The head coach knew he was supposed to leave field after ejection. Not go sit just outside dugout by on deck.  And the asst was last man standing has to keep his mouth shut. He didn't do that. I don't think ump knew ramification of tossing the asst. when he did it. Royse City needed that ump back when their guy got taken out by baserunner awhile back and umps were wimps.

Good thing for Longview is that N. Mesquite lost so one game tomorrow for them to decide final playoff spot.

It is a shame that that this game was not played out. I am not sure how it unfolded and came to a forfeit for Longview. That is unfortunate.

I can only speak of what I have witnessed. This is our first season with Rockwall and Heath in our district. As such, we played each team at their home field one time each this season. Both teams are very talented ball clubs.

When we played Heath at their home, we lost the game 2-1. There were 2 umpires on the field. The plate umpire was decent. The field umpire was awful. He made 2 calls that night that changed the outcome of the game. His first "questionable call" was still being talked about by the local radio 30 minutes later. Even the local radio knew that it looked like "home cooking". Later in the same game, same field umpire changed a call at the request of the Heath 1st base coach.

When we showed up to play Rockwall at their home field, looked to me like the same umpire crew from our Heath game. Our game there had a couple of the same type calls that were displayed at Heath. We also lost this game by 1 run.

When you have games that are only 1 run difference, a couple of really questionable calls can determine the outcome of the game. A quality umpire crew will not be remembered. Now, as it stands, I can name at least three games ( our 2 and now this forfeit) where your local umpires determined the final outcome. I will now always remember that crew of umpires.

I will say again that both Rockwall teams play some quality baseball. Both teams are full of talent as witnessed by Heath being State Champs last year and both teams being #1 and #2 in the district. All I am saying is you guys need to clean up your local umpire pool. Rockwall schools are going to get a bad reputation because of these instances.

I agree once tossed the coach was not smart staying next to the dugout.  And the asst. has to know if your the last guy you don't open your mouth.   it was a really bad call though, so sorry for all the seniors But they will always remember the game.  On to the playoffs for Rockwall and a one game playoff for Longview For fourth.

If there was no umpire who would anyone blame for their own actions...

Amen TX-Ump74.  I wasn't there... but it doesn't matter.  No matter if the umps were doing a great job, terrible job, or were the worst in recorded history... two coaches getting themselves tossed is inexcusable.  The coaches owe apologies for costing their players a ballgame... both the outcome of the game and just the opportunity to play.  Ridiculous.  They owe another apology for setting such a terrible example to their players for how to handle adverse situations in life.  There's no excuse... so don't bother looking for one.

If we're going to ask coaches to apologize for getting kicked out of a game, is it completely out of line to ask umpires to apologize for their incompetency and rude behavior as well?

I saw a game in 10-5A this year where an umpire was struggling with balls 'n strikes the entire game ...neither team was getting an advantage. By the seventh inning both the visitors and home team fans were openly laughing at his incompetency. The Big Boy in blue said something inaudible and then tapped his ample butt three times, inviting everybody in the stands to kiss it.

The home plate umpire in the McKinney Boyd / Plano East game played on April 20 owes a public apology ...neither team gained a large advantage from his "strike zone" but his behavior that day was inexcusable.  

Stiglitz,

Generally in all states there is a governing body for HS Athletics which includes officials. Coaches, parents and fans have a method to complain about officials and their actions (these don't include on the field/court calls )... now in TX when a complaint is filed and investigated then found to be legitimate, there are repercussions that the umpire will have to deal with.  It could be a suspension for a few games or if severe enough the umpire could lose his schedule.

It is as simple as that! 

Well if it isn't the umps, it has to be the players or the parents. Can't be the coaches.

UIL is going to collect some good fine money from Longview it sounds like. Don't be surprised if you see one or two baseball job postings from this school in a couple of weeks. Not saying it's right or wrong, just saying. Now, with that being said, I will scroll back up and see if someone posted the reason(s) BOTH coaches got the boot...

I agree that the head coach should have gone and sat in the bus. By staying in the stands or behind the dugout, he exacerbated the situation.

But before the UIL starts handing out fines, I hope that they do some investigation. This is not the first season for this head coach. He has been coaching baseball since 1998. That is 15 years. He coached at LeTourneau University for five years and helped UTTyler Patriots win a championship in 2007. He is not new to this game.

So....what kind of call would it take for a seasoned varsity coach to get so fired up and feel so wronged to the point of getting tossed out of a district game? How many times did he feel wronged before this call at the plate? How many times did the calls go in the favor of the home team? 

It sounds like you know specifics on this situation. Care to elaborate what exactly happened?

No sir. I do not know specifics. I wasn't there at this game. But if you read the fourth post in this thread you can read my experience with a particular Rockwall umpire. 

I don't even know the Longview Coach. I just looked up his bio to see if he was a newbie at this. 

I think "throw'n bb's" might have been at the game and might be able to shed light on what led up to the ejection of this coach.

I'm just curious what was so bad to get both coaches thrown out?

First of all....the catcher DID NOT tag the runner.  He could have and should have....but he didn't. So the runner was called safe.  Rockwall then went ahead 2-1 in the 4th inning.  The coach said his peace and more, the call didn't change, and after he was ejected, he then refused to leave the field.  Evidently he doesn't think he has to follow the rules because he was coaching from the fence.  The asst. coach cussed out the umpire after he was asked to get his dugout under control.  That is why he got ejected.  He then went on to high five his players in the dugout which was very tacky  (evidently he didn't know the rules about needing a coach to finish the game). This incident was a terrible reflection on Longview.  The Rockwall coach even offered to continue the game but the umpire wouldn't allow it (he didn't have to or feel guilt...he just wanted our team to finish the game).  I can't believe that the Longview coaches and fans are shocked that you can't cuss out umpires.  Maybe they will learn a valuable lesson from this.  Rockwall did not want Longview's bad behavior to end the game because we always come to play 7 innings.  We don't need help from umpires.  Our hitting stats will attest to that.  And by the way, Tyler beat Rockwall by 1 in Tyler at the end of the game....so let's tell the whole story about 1 run wins.  Evidently both Tyler and Longview are used to getting their way on calls.  The Metroplex is too big for that.  We aren't buddies with the umpires.  Welcome to high school sports outside of East Texas.  We all have to deal with umpire decisions that we don't agree with.  But it is very poor taste to say that Rockwall and Rockwall-Heath cheat and have it in with the umpires.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  They are 1st and 2nd in the district because they are the better teams this year.  Check the state rankings......And we beat #5 Southlake Carroll at SLC with no help from the umpires.....Imagine that!

This will be my last post on the subject.  Sorry I started it.  I started it because I felt bad for the Seniors.  Bballfan4life calm down no need to make this about Dallas versus East Texas.  Tyler Lee Dad "really" need some cheese with that?

The Rockwall player was out at home in my opinion, so the head coach came out questioning the call (I would have as well) I don't think he got the "coach one more word and your out" warning from the ump and got tossed.  At that point not a big deal, let the game continue, the issue happened when the coach didn't leave the    area, then the assistant has to be smarter than to get tossed.  We all disagree with calls and most coaches have been tossed at one point, but the second coach has to know the situation and keep quiet.

Longview A.D. will get the whole story in the UIL write-up. Only time will tell what he/she thinks of the situation...

Throw'n bb's... can't say I have or will ever use this line. It just traps the umpire into acting on the next word. If the coach goes over the line, generally there is no warning. Coaches know where the line is and they choose to cross it.

Even though he may be right, I cannot listen to any opinion on questionable calls when the individual refers to "runs" as "points".   

Run point well taken...

Have to keep replying here cuz haven't seen this many replies on a thread in awhile....

As far as I know, Rockwall doesn't have umpires. I mean we have the pre-season picnic with them. Try to let'em know what we expect. Why they're getting paid, you know. Tell them not to wear their old Yellowjacket class rings and such. But they're not really ours.

I think Fan4Life got some things incorrect. 

Longview's players threw the ball around a bit on the play. Maybe that's what got the coach riled. I mean the guy that scored was the hitter. He had come all the way around when LF threw the ball away over 2B and went to the fence in 1B foul territory. That allowed the runner to go to 3B and head for Home.

No question the call was controversial and rightly questioned. The question here was about the ejection. Even on the worst of calls at some point the coach has to move on. The ump was somewhat out of position. He had gone up 1B line and towards the dugout for some reason. Maybe following the ball on the errant throw from LF. As the play occurred a plate he quickly moved towards plate from dugout area. He wasn't right on top of the call. Catcher was inside the 3B baseline and runner slide to the foul side. Ball coming to C from down 1B line. As C turns to tag runner,his back is to ump and I believe he shielded ump's view of the tag. And he did tag the runner. Ump just saw the runner slide outside and looked to be under tag. Ump immediately indicated runner was under the tag. I could see tag but not plate and if runners feet had touched before tag. I was on 3B side. Not a call that home plate ump could or would get help from field ump. During the argument, the ump moved away from coach indicating "We're done, let's play" and the coach moved back in towards ump. Right about there he got the thumb. My wife said coach was being "very ugly" if that helps. She was sitting at backstop with bb's.  BB's should have heard whole discussion but I understand his hearing is not what it used to be.

Asst coach did not "cuss out" ump IMO. And Fan4Life wasn't close enough to know that. No one was except maybe Longview players. It was very short conversation. Coach said something for sure but wouldn't characterize it as "cussed out." He wasn't in the ump's face. Ump was wanting to talk with him. He was moving away and waving the ump off. 

I know his first comment as the ump was talking to head coach sitting outside dugout was, "It's not about you. Just go call the game." As ump turned back to field he continued that kind of language I believe - but couldn't hear. Ump wanted to talk and coach was motioning him away. Coach may have said, "You gave them a point." And that's when he was ejected.

Longivew was leading to this point in the game. No more controversial calls for coach to be upset about. The play put Rockwall up 2-1 B4 with 2 out. Runner at plate would have ended inning. Next hitter was F8 on a fine play by LF. Game was called in T5 as Longview was just about to begin their ABs.

I know of some video of the play at the plate and ensuing argument between head coach and ump. Maybe get it posted later in the week. Stay tuned.

And the good news for Longview is they open in the playoffs this week against Naaman Forest. You young men bring a win back to 12-5A. We'll be working to do the same.

rockdad

Wow....

and that's why some games the schools decide to go with 3 and 4 man crews in other parts of the state 

Salt- Good "point"! I have edited my post per your suggestion.

Rock Dad- good job retelling of the story. I will say again that I was not there. We were playing Heath at our home field that night. The way you tell the story, by adding the fact that there was an overthrow to 2nd base and that the official was probably out of position helps me to understand what went on. I am a very fair minded individual. I like to hear facts with no spin. Every umpire can and will blow a call. They are human.

I am done posting here as well. I would like to say that if you read my posts again (I did edit the first post but only changed the word "point" to "run" as mentioned), I have said several times that Rockwall and Rockwall Heath have quality players and programs. I have not slighted the programs. 

I have also said that you have at least one umpire, in that part of the country, that I know I hope to never see on a field again. He is that bad. I would venture to say, that if you are reading this as a Rockwall or Heath parent and you have an idea which umpire I am talking about, then you know he needs to find a new line of work as well. That is why I said previously that you need to cleanup your umpire pool.