Roger Maris

CD,

His son is a good friend and we have him coach in the Aflac Game each year. He truly loved his father and is proud, but he is the same type person. No one would ever know he is Roger Maris's son if they waited to hear it from him. BTW, he looks just like Roger.

That is one book I will read. Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
CD,

His son is a good friend and we have him coach in the Aflac Game each year. He truly loved his father and is proud, but he is the same type person. No one would ever know he is Roger Maris's son if they waited to hear it from him. BTW, he looks just like Roger.

That is one book I will read. Thanks

PG - you'll love the book. I would tell every young ballplayer out there that it would be a good thing to be like Roger Maris. Like any person, he was not perfect, but his virtues and humility far exceeded any weakness.

I read the book about 3 months ago and I felt it was one of the better baseball biographies I have read. A lot of his hard to get to know personality for which he was crucified by the NY press and fans was a result of his upbringing and family life as a kid. Was a good family man and very loyal to close friends.

I had started on this book and got bored after the first chapter...put it away.

With this thread, I will get it back out and give it another try.

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
I had started on this book and got bored after the first chapter...put it away.

With this thread, I will get it back out and give it another try.

Thanks!

There were early parts that went into too many details about his extended family. If you skim over those parts, I think you'll enjoy it better.

Clavin should stay writing for Good Housekeeping and Cosmopolitan.
No one I know considers Clavin a NY Traditionalist, by any sense of imagination.

The debate not fully covered in Clavin's 'history' book (and comes around ever 5 to 10 years) is
whether Maris's four great years (1959, 1960, 1961 & 1962) is enough for the Hall! The BBWAA vote has not been greater than 44%!

Also remember '61 was the year the AL
expanded from 8 to 10 teams.
Some say it watered down the rosters and pitching!

And more importantly, the MLB season was extended to 162 games.

Reminds me of 61* and Billy Crystal (and closer to being considered a NY Traditionalist, just not old enough and by a couple of decades!)

Actually I would not consider 1959 and 1962 to be great seasons for Maris, only good to very good. He really only had two "great" seasons and to me that isn't enough for a Hall of Famer. You could make a great argument that Mickey Mantle was really the MVP in 1960 and 1961 and not Maris although it was close in 1960. In 1961 Mantle had an OPS of 1.135 while Maris had .957. Mantle had an on base percentage of .448 to Maris' .372. They scored the same amount of runs but Maris had 14 more RBI with a guy(Mantle) in front of him on base 45% of the time. Mantle played the premier position and out stole him 12 to 2. I could go on, but Mantle was really the far superior player.

3B,

I understand you view point.

Many baseball men consider making the All-Star game is a great year.

Maris was an all star in '59. To top that, it was the year Maris was traded to the Yankees (from the Yankees MiLB team in the big leagues KC . So....'59 was a great year for Maris.

Winning back to back MVP's (in '60 & '61) is huge. Maris' 61 in '61 moved the entire country.
Maybe more so than:
DiMaggio (56 in '41),
Cal's (2131 in '95) &
McGwire (62nd in '98)

Given that Maris was an All-Star in '62 & finished with 33 taters and 100 rbi's.... is a great year.

Several of the BBWAA I socialized with (and were NY Traditionalists) voted for Maris in more than ten consecutive years '78-'88.

Your Mantle vs Maris info in '60-'62 is not debatable nor agreed to be discussed.

If so, then lets get serious about
- Ted Williams hitting .406 in '41 and NOT getting the AL MVP, and of course
- Teddy Ballgame winning the Triple Crown in '42 and not getting voted for the AL MVP (and by the NY Traditionists!)

Bear,

Totally agree with you on the two Ted William seasons. The 1941 season will be argued forever but what some people forget is that during the duration of his 56 game streak Joe DiMaggio hit .405 while during the same time period, Ted Williams hit .409. He just happened to have a few hitless games, but far more walks.

Oh I forgot, Dale Murphy also won back to back MVP's and he gets no love from the Hall of Fame voters.

In '62 I bought the book Roger co-authored, Roger Maris at Bat, which was about the '61 season and is really good as well.

I'm a huge RM fan (my cat's name is Roger) and even though his STATS weren't that great they're as good as some of the other guys from that era that did get into the HOF.

I read somewhere that after being traded to St. Louis, he pretty much won the WS single-handedly the year they won.

Some of the better baseball trivia, which may have originated in '64 while 'visiting' DC's Hawk 'n' Dove might be

Name the players who won back to back MVP's?


And just a few months ago, a really tough trivial, and while watching a few ball games at Shipley was
...Name the players who tossed Perfect Games.

Bear,

Many people don't know that in the 1920's and very early 1930's when the MVP was given by different groups from nowadays, players were specifically not included if they had won the award previously. Therefore Ruth didn't have the chance to win multiple MVP awards.

I know off the top of my head I can name most of the perfect game pitchers including the early 20th century ones, Addie Joss, Cy Young, & Charley Robertson and tell something about each game specifically.

baseballregie,

I read that book also. Truthfully Lou Brock and above all, Bob Gibson were the main reasons the Cardinals won the 1967 World Series. Roger Maris had a very good series with some timely hits. I watched or listened to the whole Series.

Roger Maris belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame. C'mon in 1961 he broke Babe Ruth's record by hitting 61 homers and all he got for it was grief. He has similar stats as Bill Mazeroski. It's time the Hall of Fame voters got off their self righteous arse and get this guy in. His bat is there.....now he needs to get there.

And while we're at it...why don't we just have a special induction ceremony for all the bad guys.......Bonds, Rose, Shoeless Joe, McGuire, Palmiero and Sosa. What the heck, the Hall of Fame isn't really that exclusive anyway. Isn't it so hypocritical to have allowed these guys juice it up and now bam!!!! You're too bad for us. Don't we all have a few skeletons in the closet? There are guys in the Hall that have skeletons...I mean....it's not the Hall of Heroes or Role Models!


But I digress......Maris - Yes. By the way if it were the Hall of Heroes or Role Models...Maris would qualify. Shameful that he didn't get in while he was alive so he could have enjoyed his achievement. Have you ever seen Mazeroski's HOF speech? He couldn't even read it through all the tears. There really should be an effort to get guys in before they are gone.

Funny how Bautista is questioned this year for his jump in HR numbers---but Maris never was or is questioned for going from 39 to 61 and never again even coming close to that number

Maris; different era, 36% jump in round-trippers but he did move to Yankee Stadium where he surely benefited from the short right field porch. He moved on to the not so friendly confines of Busch Stadium.

I don't think anybody has really questioned Bautista. But, much bigger percentage jump for him; 76% in this era, he is right handed (no short porch). It remains to be seen what his future numbers may be.

I don't see a comparison really.

First of all I want to say I admire Roger Maris and feel his is the true HR record although there is now nothing we can do about the new records of the steroid era. I also feel for his family who were so gracious when McGwire "broke" the record even though we know the facts of that now. But in all honesty, he is not a hall of famer to me because he broke a record. One great season in my opinion is not the definition of a Hall of Famer to me. Some people might have different or lower levels of achievement to them that make a Hall of Famer but to me there has to be more to the player's body of work. Maris had one "great" season and in that one he only hit .269 and arguably did not have the best season on his own team. If you want to call 33 HRs and 100 RBI's a "great" season even in the context of the 1960's than I suggest you look at the seasons Aaron, Mays, Frank Robinson, Cepeda, Kaline, Clemente, and others were having at the same time. In my mind Maris was a very good player who had a couple of standout seasons in 1960 and 1961 with only one of them being arguably being great because he hit 61 Hrs in an expansion year.

What do you think then about the Mazeroski comparison? It can be argued that Maz is in not for one good season but maybe for one good swing of the bat.....the World Series homer at Forbes Field. Without that single event, Maz would not, could not be there for his offensive stats. He was great defensively but so were alot of fellows that didn't make it. Maris is famous for breaking the home run record so should be in the Hall of Famous.

I think comparing Mazeroski and Maris is comparing apples to oranges. You wouldn't compare Ozzie Smith to Eddie Murray simply because what is expected out of their respective positions in offense and defense are very different things. Having said that, Mazeroski's defensively was arguably the greatest ever seen at second base. The numbers of double plays he turned with several different shortstops has not been approached. As a hitter however, he was not great shakes even for the 50's and 60's. In my personal Hall of Fame I'm not sure he makes the cut just because of his defense although being arguably the best fielder at that position gives him some support. I think if you had a draft in 1963 of all the outfielders in baseball Maris would have finished behind multiple outfielders including the one(Mantle) on his own team. From that season on it was pretty much all downhill with Maris, not withstanding a good World Series performance in 1967. I think if Maris had hit 55 HRs in 1961, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. So it really boils down to the 61 in 1961. And truthfully neither of us is wrong. I really wish the George Kelly's, Freddie Lindstrom's, Chick Hafey's and Ray Schalk's of the 1920's for example had never been elected by cronyism on the part of the electing body. My Hall of Fame would have a very high standard where we never say just because so and so is in then my guy should be in also.