Rule for the "Inside" Pickoff Move to Second"

Once you start your pitching motion and your foot crosses the back of the rubber you have to go to second or come home. Now all he has to do is land on the backside of the rubber, then he can chase or throw ahead of the runner. If he doesn't completely break the back of the rubber he could straight to third.

Can I ask 1) What Rule would justify making a move to third while on the rubber with a runner trying to steal third and third un occupied...and 2)...regarding my original question---- What about 8.05 (c) comment that says, "A pitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base, but does not require him to throw because he steps." This ump last night called a balk and unless I can show him...he's going to make the same un informed call. I taught our guys to swing the foot back toward second and if they see the runner breaking, they can interrupt the move and run at the runner, and not actually STEP toward second in that instance. I need some rule argument here.

What rule book are you using...I don't find tha language in my OBR.

Try reading this and see if it helps:

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when—
(a) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch and fails to make such delivery;

Rule 8.05(a) Comment: If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitcher’s rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw to second base on apick-off play.

(b) The pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first base and fails to complete the throw;
(c) The pitcher, while touching his plate, fails to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base;

Rule 8.05(c) Comment: Requires the pitcher, while touching his plate, to step directly toward a
base before throwing to that base. If a pitcher turns or spins off of his free foot without actually stepping or if he turns his body and throws before stepping, it is a balk.

A pitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base but does not require him to
throw (except to first base only) because he steps. It is possible, with runners on first and third, for the pitcher to step toward third and not throw, merely to bluff the runner back to third; then seeing the runner on first start for second, turn and step toward and throw to first base. This is legal.

However, if, with runners on first and third, the pitcher, while in contact with the rubber, steps toward third and then immediately and in practically the same motion “wheels” and throws to first base, it is obviously an attempt to deceive the runner at first base, and in such a move it is practically impossible to step directly toward first base before the throw to first base, and such a move shall be called a balk. Of course, if the
pitcher steps off the rubber and then makes such a move, it is not a balk.
(d) The pitcher, while touching his plate, throws, or feints a throw to an unoccupied base, except for the purpose of making a play;
(e) The pitcher makes an illegal pitch;
Rule 8.05(e) Comment: A quick pitch is an illegal pitch. Umpires will judge a quick pitch as one
delivered before the batter is reasonably set in the batter’s box. With runners on base the penalty is a balk; with no runners on base, it is a ball. The quick pitch is dangerous and should not be permitted.
(f) The pitcher delivers the ball to the batter while he is not facing the batter;
(g) The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is not
touching the pitcher’s plate;
(h) The pitcher unnecessarily delays the game;
Rule 8.05(h) Comment: Rule 8.05(h) shall not apply when a warning is given pursuant to Rule
8.02(c) (which prohibits intentional delay of a game by throwing to fielders not in an attempt to put a runner out). If a pitcher is ejected pursuant to Rule 8.02(c) for continuing to delay the game, the penalty in Rule 8.05(h) shall also apply. Rule 8.04 (which sets a time limit for a pitcher to deliver the ball when the bases are unoccupied) applies only when there are no runners on base.
(i) The pitcher, without having the ball, stands on or astride the pitcher’s plate or while
off the plate, he feints a pitch;
(j) The pitcher, after coming to a legal pitching position, removes one hand from the
ball other than in an actual pitch, or in throwing to a base;
(k) The pitcher, while touching his plate, accidentally or intentionally drops the ball;
(l) The pitcher, while giving an intentional base on balls, pitches when the catcher is
not in the catcher’s box;
(m) The pitcher delivers the pitch from Set Position without coming to a stop.

If he doesn't completely break the back of the rubber he could straight to third
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I thought you could not throw to an unoccupied base from the rubber. Always thought that you must first step off. Remember he is already in his delivery, break the plane/back of rubber or not, don't think it matters.

Jimmy03, under para (d), does this mean a pitcher while in his delivery can throw to 3b (currently not occupied) while the runner from 2b is stealing without stepping off? If so, that is good to know because I always thought and have posted that you could not throw to an unoccupied base from the pitchers delivery.

quote:

Originally posted by standballdad:
Jimmy03, under para (d), does this mean a pitcher while in his delivery can throw to 3b (currently not occupied) while the runner from 2b is stealing without stepping off? If so, that is good to know because I always thought and have posted that you could not throw to an unoccupied base from the pitchers delivery.

Yes. F1 can throw to an unoccupied base to make a play on a stealing runner. But, in OBR, it has to be a legitimate attempt to steal. If it is a feint, then it is a balk. Umpire's judgment.

In FED, F1 can throw to an unoccupied base to drive the runner back. A feint is enough to allow this move.

Thank You "Mr Umpire", very enlightening.

I read 8.05...but if you can tell me what specific part of that rule deals with my specific issue....stated above...at the beginning.....I would be grateful. I cant see it

quote:

Rule 8.05(a) Comment: If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitcher’s rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw to second base on apick-off play.

(b) The pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first base and fails to complete the throw;
(c) The pitcher, while touching his plate, fails to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base;

Rule 8.05(c) Comment: Requires the pitcher, while touching his plate, to step directly toward a
base before throwing to that base. If a pitcher turns or spins off of his free foot without actually stepping or if he turns his body and throws before stepping, it is a balk.

D....Jimmy has it covered in rule 8.05(c)....once he crosses the pitching plate he does not have to throw to 2B but he also cannot turn or spin off his free foot to throw somewhere else.

quote:

Originally posted by standballdad:
Jimmy03, under para (d), does this mean a pitcher while in his delivery can throw to 3b (currently not occupied) while the runner from 2b is stealing without stepping off? If so, that is good to know because I always thought and have posted that you could not throw to an unoccupied base from the pitchers delivery.

Yes/No/Maybe

Depends on what you consider "his delivery". If he had committed to, or made a move to home, he must pitch and cannot throw to third...has nothing to do with an unoccupied base.

He can throw to an unoccupied base provided he does so legally and it is to make a play (OBR) or to make a play or drive back a runner (FED).

I stand corrected, learning something new everyday.

I think the OP isn't well explained. Are you saying your pitcher is doing an inside move, RHP turning clockwise to throw to second, sees the runner breaking for third and takes off after the runner? If this is correct, then as long as he lands behind the rubber he is fine. If he crosses the rubber and changes direction so he lands toward third then he may have balked, HTBT.
Have we answered the question or do you need further explanation? If you do, no problem, simply let us know what needs to be clarified.