I’m getting pretty annoyed by pitchers showing vids of them hitting personal best numbers doing what look more like OF pull downs off the mound (and also flat ground). Saw a kid I know throw 91 using this technique and he is top FB 85 but settles in at 82-83. It just reminds me of kids chasing and posting amazing exit Velo and are usually 0.125 with nearly the same OBP. Maybe I’m wrong to be annoyed 🤷♂️
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What does it matter what another kid does. Control what you can control. Tune out the noise.
@TexasLefty posted:I’m getting pretty annoyed by pitchers showing vids of them hitting personal best numbers doing what look more like OF pull downs off the mound (and also flat ground). Saw a kid I know throw 91 using this technique and he is top FB 85 but settles in at 82-83. It just reminds me of kids chasing and posting amazing exit Velo and are usually 0.125 with nearly the same OBP. Maybe I’m wrong to be annoyed 🤷♂️
Do you think a College Coach (or anybody with a brain stem) is going to believe it without physically being there? Coaches trust their eyes, stopwatch, and other experienced coaches. This is one of the reasons recruiting goes on for months. The guy (typically HC) has to see the recruit with his own eyes (sometimes many times) before making the offer.
Don't think twice about these videos because nobody else does including the people that matter most.
JMO.
Pull-downs don't matter.
I asked a coach why they had kids do pull downs. He said, "One, it tells us what their body is capable of at max effort. Two, the kids love it and we do it for them to keep them engaged and excited through the monotony of training."
The first time I saw one I was petrified my son was going to get hurt. He did it once this fall about a week before his first bullpen.
Same here....never understood the point of posting pulldown numbers. My son was a pitcher at a mid-major. In 4 seasons he sat 88-90. The best we know that he threw in a game was 93 for a couple pitches against a P5 in perfect weather. 2 years after he graduated.....and had nothing baseball related except for some softball....and some long toss with a buddy who was in the minors he went with the buddy to his winter workout. Some younger kids were working out and doing pulldowns. He was had just road along for something to do and was sitting in a chair watching. Decided to give it a try (had never thrown a pull down) .....no warm up...and threw 101 on his second try lol. The PC was shocked....as he had never seen anyone do that....and this guy was an Milb pitching coach at the time. Needless to say the next morning my son wished he hadn't done it.
Pulldowns are part of a training regime that train kids to organize their bodies under stress (ie running speed) and helps train specific parts of the 8 pillars of the delivery (ie block), and kids get excited when they hit new personal highs. Why they would post it, I don't know, but I'm old. Kids now days post everything they do that they are happy about, the pulldowns are measured by velo so they are seen as milestones.
The velocities of pulldowns are comparative to the pulldown only on a 1:1 basis, but can translate to the mound if done right, but not 1:1, but if you are saying 101mph pulldown and thinking mound velocity, I am sure the kids posting are not. They also use different weighted plyo balls which often you'll see a 101mph or so for the grey ball, which of course is the lightest so it only matters to other grey ball numbers, etc. It's simply a piece of the puzzle.
maybe don't worry about it and understand time passes and what's important to new generations and new generations of training methods is different. I mean I'd probably think comparing my fastball to a racing motorcycle isn't exactly very accurate and therefore dumb.
I understand getting caught up on the numbers of what other kids are doing compared to your son, but RJM and fenway are right. Control what you can control. Lots of us get caught up in daddyball, but getting pissed off about it or worrying about what that kid is doing versus your kid is a waste of time and stress and everything. It is hard to let it go, but we just need to focus on our own kids and cheer for their teammates.
@HSDad22 posted:Pulldowns are part of a training regime that train kids to organize their bodies under stress (ie running speed) and helps train specific parts of the 8 pillars of the delivery (ie block), and kids get excited when they hit new personal highs. Why they would post it, I don't know, but I'm old. Kids now days post everything they do that they are happy about, the pulldowns are measured by velo so they are seen as milestones.
The velocities of pulldowns are comparative to the pulldown only on a 1:1 basis, but can translate to the mound if done right, but not 1:1, but if you are saying 101mph pulldown and thinking mound velocity, I am sure the kids posting are not. They also use different weighted plyo balls which often you'll see a 101mph or so for the grey ball, which of course is the lightest so it only matters to other grey ball numbers, etc. It's simply a piece of the puzzle.
maybe don't worry about it and understand time passes and what's important to new generations and new generations of training methods is different. I mean I'd probably think comparing my fastball to a racing motorcycle isn't exactly very accurate and therefore dumb.
I do not share your opinion on the training value of pull downs. At least not the way 90% of them are done. In terms of showing potential, the same thing can be accomplished with a crow hop from the OF. It’s a challenge to get kids to move quicker, and more athletically, down the mound. But anything done without having the body under control is unproductive IMO. Promoting max effort throws while body is out of control does not translate to how baseball is played. Instead that type of “training” promotes jerking the head and losing your balance. Both are bad habits. Reckless pull downs also lead to a lot of injuries. As in the hitting world, most guys that had success playing at a high level don’t promote things like this. And it’s not because training has evolved and they haven’t. It’s because they don’t like to see frauds ruining kids and fleecing their parents. I understand that the kids love all the social media attention and that’s another problem altogether. But it’s up to parents to reign their kids in when it comes to all that. There is an awful lot of bad training going on that’s going to negatively impact a lot of young players.
@adbono posted:I do not share your opinion on the training value of pull downs. At least not the way 90% of them are done. In terms of showing potential, the same thing can be accomplished with a crow hop from the OF. It’s a challenge to get kids to move quicker, and more athletically, down the mound. But anything done without having the body under control is unproductive IMO. Promoting max effort throws while body is out of control does not translate to how baseball is played. Instead that type of “training” promotes jerking the head and losing your balance. Both are bad habits. Reckless pull downs also lead to a lot of injuries. As in the hitting world, most guys that had success playing at a high level don’t promote things like this. And it’s not because training has evolved and they haven’t. It’s because they don’t like to see frauds ruining kids and fleecing their parents. I understand that the kids love all the social media attention and that’s another problem altogether. But it’s up to parents to reign their kids in when it comes to all that. There is an awful lot of bad training going on that’s going to negatively impact a lot of young players.
that can be said of any training method, you use terms like "Reckless" and "out of control" when partially the drill is made to learn to push past existing limits and learn to control it. If the players are made to understand that, and not just go all out of control and throw, then the drill can have the desired affect.
I do not share your opinion that the drill itself is bad, but do share that bad coaches can make any drill dangerous.
if the person teaching it has no clue, then the drillwill have no value. if the subject doesn't fully understand the purpose of the drill and why they're doing it, the drill will have no value.
The pulldown is a valued training method of guys like Kyle Bodi and professionals like Trevor Bauer, but both those guys know exactly why it's used and utilize a complete training regimen.
I'd also contend that anyone doing any high intensity training/throwing, or teaching high intensity training/throwing to others without that person being prepared to handle it, through proper strength training, arm care, soft tissue care, mobility, and flexibility, is Reckless. And that also means knowing if they can handle it on that particular day, not just because they are doing strength and conditioning as part of the program.
Your arm can only move as fast as your body and brain will allow, if you train to push past those protections, you better have prepared your arm et al. to handle it. Kids who can't express or grasp how they are feeling on a particular day, probably should not be engaging in this type of training.
@HSDad22, to be clear I did not mean that there is no value to using pull downs in training IF THEY ARE DONE PROPERLY. What I said was that 90% of what I see out there (and online) is garbage. I incorporate controlled pulldowns into the training that I do personally with HS, college , and pro pitchers. But I don’t train kids for money. And therein lies the difference. I’m not trying to build a brand off the backs of kids by posting nonsense videos and making ridiculous claims. I see so much reckless training of young players and it both disgusts and angers me. Reckless and unqualified “instructors” are ruining kids and profiting while they do it. Parents are perpetuating the problem by paying for garbage because they haven’t done their homework. I’m not going to get into it on a public forum but Driveline isn’t lily white in this deal either.
@adbono posted:@HSDad22, to be clear I did not mean that there is no value to using pull downs in training IF THEY ARE DONE PROPERLY. What I said was that 90% of what I see out there (and online) is garbage. I incorporate controlled pulldowns into the training that I do personally with HS, college , and pro pitchers. But I don’t train kids for money. And therein lies the difference. I’m not trying to build a brand off the backs of kids by posting nonsense videos and making ridiculous claims. I see so much reckless training of young players and it both disgusts and angers me. Reckless and unqualified “instructors” are ruining kids and profiting while they do it. Parents are perpetuating the problem by paying for garbage because they haven’t done their homework. I’m not going to get into it on a public forum but Driveline isn’t lily white in this deal either.
Yeah, the more I wrote the more I realized that is where you were going with that, and agree 100%.
I'm not always so quick on the uptake.
@HSDad22 posted:Yeah, the more I wrote the more I realized that is where you were going with that, and agree 100%.
I'm not always so quick on the uptake.
Fair enough
A pull down PR is basically the same like a deadlift PR, it may or may not transfer to the baseball field.
I wold not read too much into it, kids like to post everything and especially brag if they make progress in their training metrics.
I don't have an issue with that, a pulldown PR doesn't mean they will pitch well next season but it means they are pushing themselves in training and possibly make physical progress.
