If a fly ball is caught in foul territory, and a runner tags up and scores, if that still scored as
a SAC Fly?
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Yes 
Collikar, that was my initial response as well ... sounds like a straightforward question with what should be an easy answer.
Then I checked the rulebook -- and it starts to get interesting.
OBR 10.09(e): "Score a sacrifice fly when, before two are out, the batter hits a fly ball or a line drive handled by an outfielder or an infielder running in the outfield which (1) is caught, and a runner scores after the catch, or (2) is dropped, and a runner scores, if in the scorer's judgment the runner could have scored after the catch had the fly been caught. NOTE: Score a sacrifice fly in accordance with 10.09 (e) (2) even though another runner is forced out by reason of the batter becoming a runner."
The phrase "running in the outfield" is a little ambiguous. Does it refer to just the infielder or the outfielder as well? Is that implying that it has to be a fair ball? Hard to tell.
And interestingly, I guess that means that if a catcher runs a good distance to catch a fly ball (say in fair territory) where the baserunner then tags & scores, it looks like it wouldn't be a sac fly for the batter -- because it wasn't "handled by an outfielder or infielder ..."
Even more interestingly, as stated above, if the fielder drops it and the runner tags & scores (and the batter makes it to 1st) the batter still gets credited with a sac fly. So in that scenario did he reach via a sac fly (0 for 0) and there was an error on the play ... or did he reach by error (0 for 1) but he gets credited with the sac fly? Sounds nitpicky, but statsitcially it could make a difference in BA and OBP. And if he then scores, is his run earned or unearned?
So what's the answer to the original question? I thought it was yes ... now I'm not so sure.
Comments from others?
Then I checked the rulebook -- and it starts to get interesting.
OBR 10.09(e): "Score a sacrifice fly when, before two are out, the batter hits a fly ball or a line drive handled by an outfielder or an infielder running in the outfield which (1) is caught, and a runner scores after the catch, or (2) is dropped, and a runner scores, if in the scorer's judgment the runner could have scored after the catch had the fly been caught. NOTE: Score a sacrifice fly in accordance with 10.09 (e) (2) even though another runner is forced out by reason of the batter becoming a runner."
The phrase "running in the outfield" is a little ambiguous. Does it refer to just the infielder or the outfielder as well? Is that implying that it has to be a fair ball? Hard to tell.
And interestingly, I guess that means that if a catcher runs a good distance to catch a fly ball (say in fair territory) where the baserunner then tags & scores, it looks like it wouldn't be a sac fly for the batter -- because it wasn't "handled by an outfielder or infielder ..."
Even more interestingly, as stated above, if the fielder drops it and the runner tags & scores (and the batter makes it to 1st) the batter still gets credited with a sac fly. So in that scenario did he reach via a sac fly (0 for 0) and there was an error on the play ... or did he reach by error (0 for 1) but he gets credited with the sac fly? Sounds nitpicky, but statsitcially it could make a difference in BA and OBP. And if he then scores, is his run earned or unearned?
So what's the answer to the original question? I thought it was yes ... now I'm not so sure.
Comments from others?
quote:
Even more interestingly, as stated above, if the fielder drops it and the runner tags & scores (and the batter makes it to 1st) the batter still gets credited with a sac fly. So in that scenario did he reach via a sac fly (0 for 0) and there was an error on the play ... or did he reach by error (0 for 1) but he gets credited with the sac fly? Sounds nitpicky, but statsitcially it could make a difference in BA and OBP. And if he then scores, is his run earned or unearned?
So what's the answer to the original question? I thought it was yes ... now I'm not so sure.
Comments from others?
I'm pretty sure that if the fielder drops the ball on what would otherwise have been a sac fly, then the batter gets credited with a sac fly (therefore no AB) and reaches base on an error. I don't think it's an either/or question. I think he can get both the sac fly and reach base on the error.
EH, I agree. Both get the error and the sac get recorded.
Because both happened, my initial confusion was that with reaching by error being an 0 for 1 and a sac fly being 0 for 0, which one takes precedence from a stat perspective? But OBR 10.02 (1) makes it clear that if he hits a sac fly he doesn't get credited with an AB.
Thanks for the followup.
Because both happened, my initial confusion was that with reaching by error being an 0 for 1 and a sac fly being 0 for 0, which one takes precedence from a stat perspective? But OBR 10.02 (1) makes it clear that if he hits a sac fly he doesn't get credited with an AB.
Thanks for the followup.
quote:Originally posted by RPD:
The phrase "running in the outfield" is a little ambiguous. Does it refer to just the infielder or the outfielder as well?
That is referring to the infielder only.
Someone help me out here. I thought that on a SAC Fly the Plate appearance was not counted as to batting average but was counted as to on-base % whereas the SAC Bunt does not count as a plate appearance for either. Is this right?
TW344
TW344
TW, I believe what you're saying is exactly right.. SAC fly counts 0 for 0 for batting avg but 0 for 1 for OBP. Sac bunt is 0 for 0 for both.
Here's the wording from OBR:
"On base percentage, divide the total of hits, all bases on balls, and hit by pitch by the total of at bats, all bases on balls, hit by pitch and sacrifice flies.
Slugging percentage, divide the total bases of all safe hits by the total times at bat, as defined in 10.02"
which says ...
"(1) Number of times he batted, except that no time at bat shall be charged against a player when (i) He hits a sacrifice bunt or sacrifice fly (ii) He is awarded first base on four called balls (iii) He is hit by a pitched ball ..."
Here's the wording from OBR:
"On base percentage, divide the total of hits, all bases on balls, and hit by pitch by the total of at bats, all bases on balls, hit by pitch and sacrifice flies.
Slugging percentage, divide the total bases of all safe hits by the total times at bat, as defined in 10.02"
which says ...
"(1) Number of times he batted, except that no time at bat shall be charged against a player when (i) He hits a sacrifice bunt or sacrifice fly (ii) He is awarded first base on four called balls (iii) He is hit by a pitched ball ..."