http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/ext...hilling_on_th_1.html Schilling has strong words for Clemens
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seems true ... and consistent with responses and views by hsbbweb postersquote:Schilling wrote:
"They didn’t accidentally do this, this was a conscious decision with far reaching implications and they should be held accountable.
Problem is the fans version of accountable is completely dependent on their opinion of the player in question. If you are a fan (of a particulr player) then all is forgiven, or there is much less vitriol than you might have for other names mentioned."
Well, maybe if more players begin putting pressure on others, the truth will emerge.
Schilling is asking for the truth, the real truth and we deserve it.
These guys need to come clean before they get called up before a congressional committee and have to take an oath.
Schilling is asking for the truth, the real truth and we deserve it.
These guys need to come clean before they get called up before a congressional committee and have to take an oath.
He has either used or not. He is either guilty or not.
If Clemens has not used PEDs he will take the issue to court to clear his name.
If he has used, he will either come clean and accept the responsibility of his actions or keep having his lawyer issue statements.
Eventually we will know if he is guilty or not.
If Clemens has not used PEDs he will take the issue to court to clear his name.
If he has used, he will either come clean and accept the responsibility of his actions or keep having his lawyer issue statements.
Eventually we will know if he is guilty or not.
Now I am the first to scream that some players should step up and take the lead in the steroid fight. But is Schilling the right guy? He was awful quiet at the Congressional Hearings. He has sat back on his blog and thrown grenades at those accused of PED use. He has run his mouth for years about this issue but has not lead the charge for change. He either needs to put up or shut up. It's time to do a little testing on the bloody sock because it looks like magic marker to me and for someone to tell Schilling to step up or shutup. If he wants to be a man about it step up and tell us about your teammates.
quote:It's time to do a little testing on the bloody sock because it looks like magic marker to me and for someone to tell Schilling to step up or shutup.
k. I didn't touch the sock. It looked bloody though.
Maybe Curt can start by giving Pappelbons dog the Heimlich maneuver to get our 2007 World Series ball back. Pappelbons dog isn't getting away with this.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7588092
quote:It's time to do a little testing on the bloody sock because it looks like magic marker to me and for someone to tell Schilling to step up or shutup.
I was at the Hall this summer and took a picture of the bloody sock. It looks like a blood stain to me. It turned black.
bloody sock
1. I know times have changed, but last time I checked you still did not have to prove your innocence in the good ole US of A.
2. How DO you prove your innocence in a situation like this? Do you pee in a cup and have that tested? Nope, wouldn't prove anything. Do you have bone marrow taken and have that tested? Nope, wouldn't prove anything. Do you bring the THOUSANDS of guys Clemens played with and against to court and have them testify that they never saw him use? I guess you could, but would that prove anything? No. One of the first things we learned in Logic class was You Cannot Prove A Negative. Which is is why we have the rule that says you don't have to.
It is easy to "convict" someone in the court of public opinion. But that doesn't mean it's true.
Personally, I have no idea whether Clemens used or not. Nor do you. Nor does George Mitchell.
2. How DO you prove your innocence in a situation like this? Do you pee in a cup and have that tested? Nope, wouldn't prove anything. Do you have bone marrow taken and have that tested? Nope, wouldn't prove anything. Do you bring the THOUSANDS of guys Clemens played with and against to court and have them testify that they never saw him use? I guess you could, but would that prove anything? No. One of the first things we learned in Logic class was You Cannot Prove A Negative. Which is is why we have the rule that says you don't have to.
It is easy to "convict" someone in the court of public opinion. But that doesn't mean it's true.
Personally, I have no idea whether Clemens used or not. Nor do you. Nor does George Mitchell.
quote:Originally posted by Michael'sDad:
If Clemens has not used PEDs he will take the issue to court to clear his name.
quote:by MTH: How DO you prove your innocence in a situation like this? Do you pee in a cup and have that tested? Nope, wouldn't prove anything. Do you have bone marrow taken ....
A) "from '93 to '96 with the BoSox Clemens wins, 11,9,10 and 10 games ... his retirement is imminent
B) "lands with the Blue Jays where the "juicing" reportedly began and at the age of 36 after 4 seasons totalling 40 wins, he has back to back 20+ win seasons ... his size changes and his behavior"
C) Schilling is right on - "If you are a fan (of a particulr player) then all is forgiven"
quote:Originally posted by MTH:
Personally, I have no idea whether Clemens used or not. Nor do you. Nor does George Mitchell.
I'd say you went just a bit too far telling us what ideas we or George Mitchell have. That's the equivilant of telling us that we aren't allowed to reason our own judgement and form an opinion...which I believe George Mitchell already has...
I believe that's a fundamental right, in the good ole US of A.
Dad04,
You realize of course that Papelbon would have gone into medicine and there wouldn't have been an '04 WS ball if the dog hadn't eaten his homework.
You realize of course that Papelbon would have gone into medicine and there wouldn't have been an '04 WS ball if the dog hadn't eaten his homework.
Do you have to taste a hotdog to know its a hot dog? Can you not see it and know that it is what it is? When a guy goes from 185 lbs and is lean to being 235 lbs of huge muscle mass in a very short period of time what does that tell you? Nothing? He worked out really hard? Please! When a player is reaching the age where he is starting to break down from wear and tear and quite frankly he is getting old. And all of a sudden he is better than ever? What does that tell you? He discovered a great work out plan? What does it take for people to see it for what it really is?
You start out a kid. You grow into a teenage body. You mature into an adult body. You stay there for a few years. And then you start to get OLD! When a person breaks this natural cycle and starts to get better when they are getting older what does that tell you? Have you looked at the pictures of these guys when they came into the league? Have you looked at the pictures a few years in the league? Now look at them. Look at the guys like Gibson and Aaron. Did they get bigger , stronger , better in the later years of their careers? Or did they start to decline physically and performance wise? For the life of me I can not understand why some people can not see it for what it really is. Guys used drugs to improve. Guys used drugs to extend their careers. Is that so hard to believe? And you know OJ didnt kill anyone either.
You start out a kid. You grow into a teenage body. You mature into an adult body. You stay there for a few years. And then you start to get OLD! When a person breaks this natural cycle and starts to get better when they are getting older what does that tell you? Have you looked at the pictures of these guys when they came into the league? Have you looked at the pictures a few years in the league? Now look at them. Look at the guys like Gibson and Aaron. Did they get bigger , stronger , better in the later years of their careers? Or did they start to decline physically and performance wise? For the life of me I can not understand why some people can not see it for what it really is. Guys used drugs to improve. Guys used drugs to extend their careers. Is that so hard to believe? And you know OJ didnt kill anyone either.
My son left for college at 195 (ok maybe 190 given the benefit of the doubt his weight was wrong) and is now 208. That is a gain of 13-18 pounds in 4 years. He has to work so very hard to just maintain what he loses in games and in workouts. He is a protein eating machine and all he seems to do is maintain his current weight. True as he gets older it will stick, but you got to work and eat 24/7 to gain that quickly or do something else.
I am not too sure it's that hard to figure it out.
I am not too sure it's that hard to figure it out.
The court of public opinion has changed a lot over the past few years. With the proliferation of blogs and talk shows, a steady diet of opinions has bloated the market. Sure it's easy to convict a public figure in the CPO, but we're pretty big on forgiveness too. Looks to me like the verdicts handed down by the CPO have been pretty fair lately, and in some cases (OJ) more accurate than the legal courts.
Bee> highlighted the problem here pretty well. Where one lines up case by case is all about whether the accused is a friend or foe in the baseball world.
What really bothers me is guys like ESPN's Eric Cassilias spouting off that there's nothing wrong with using "Steroid Era" PEDs because there was nothing wrong with it AT THE TIME.
Some guys just don't get it.
Bee> highlighted the problem here pretty well. Where one lines up case by case is all about whether the accused is a friend or foe in the baseball world.
What really bothers me is guys like ESPN's Eric Cassilias spouting off that there's nothing wrong with using "Steroid Era" PEDs because there was nothing wrong with it AT THE TIME.
Some guys just don't get it.
Why didn't Schilling talk to Mitchell before the report came out? There were only two players (Frank Thomas & Jason Giambi) that would even talk to Mitchell whether they were suspected of taking steriods or not. Schilling is nothing more than a big blowhard. It was reported last year that Roger Clemens was in the Jason Grimsley report as being one of the players that used steroids. Yesterday this report was made available to the public and Clemens is NOT mentioned in the report. Also, he has not been accused of using PED's since 2002. I beleived he's won two Cy Young awards since then.
I don't know if he has ever used PED's or not, but to me there is a reasonable doubt if he has. As for him getting bigger after the age of 40, how many people do you know that hasn't?
I don't know if he has ever used PED's or not, but to me there is a reasonable doubt if he has. As for him getting bigger after the age of 40, how many people do you know that hasn't?
WWGD? What Would Gotwood Do? He'd post a graphic.quote:I don't know if he has ever used PED's or not, but to me there is a reasonable doubt if he has.
This just in....the lawyer for Papelbon's dog will be releasing a statement later today.....
He's been asked to defend the dog for PED's. Puppy Enhancing Drugs.quote:Originally posted by baseballguy:
This just in....the lawyer for Papelbon's dog will be releasing a statement later today.....
Speaking of overactive dogs. I was visiting a friend. His dog was driving me nuts. I asked if they considered obedience training for the dog. My friend said he went, then ate the diploma.
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
Dad04,
You realize of course that Papelbon would have gone into medicine and there wouldn't have been an '04 WS ball if the dog hadn't eaten his homework.
You mean like a witch doctor or something, right?
Maybe Summa at Arthur Murray Dance School.
ALCS Champs Papelbon Dancing
The other side of the strong words----they open two sealed affitdavits, Grimsley and Radomski, and a number of names mentioned in the initial media reports are not in the affidavits---then the LA Times who reported stuff with Clemens name in them says they are coming out with a retraction---DUH---great reporting guys-- you throw people under the bus of public opinion and now you say "OOPS"
I knew Pap's dog didn't do it!
Maybe it's in the Bud Lite Box
Korbel? These guys just won the WS and they're drinking Korbel?
Hey, it's about $8.95 a bottle! I guess they ran out of Bud Lite. David Eckstein was driving a 10 year old Maxima until he won the WS MVP and won a Corvette.
He gave the corvette to his brother.
They drank some. I think they're mostly wearing it.quote:Korbel? These guys just won the WS and they're drinking Korbel?
Papelbon's dog reportedly now admits that he did chew on the World Series ball. However, he only did it to the one ball, and that was to address a serious health problem that was afflicting him at the time (unspecified; worms maybe?). He has never chewed on a World Series baseball since then, he understands it is wrong, and he will never do it again. He now confines his chewing to traditional and approved objects such as rawhide bones, Milk Bonez, and old shoes.
quote:They drank some. I think they're mostly wearing it.
Not saying I'll ever get there, but if I did I'd wear something nice.
Papelbon says he's sorry and wants to give the ball back. Who wants it? Manny? Papi? Curt? Anyone?
Midlo, I am assuming the dog felt remorse as soon as he bit down and "If he did something wrong, he apologized"?
I heard the dog catagoricaly denied chewing a flip flop, though.
I heard the dog catagoricaly denied chewing a flip flop, though.
what i dont understand is where is clemens durin all of this??? havent heard anything from him. he is keepin his mouth shut. wonder why??? my guess is cause he probably is guilty.
I find it difficult to fathom how some of you who complain about the 'roids/PED situation in MLB can find a way to joke in the middle of the discussion.
Take the dog eating etc situation to the unusual forum
Parhaps I am too serious but this forum regarding the Schilling words has no need for dog poop discussion---at least in my mind
Take the dog eating etc situation to the unusual forum
Parhaps I am too serious but this forum regarding the Schilling words has no need for dog poop discussion---at least in my mind
Turtle
My guess is that he is listening to his people. lawyers and agent---did you read the reports today on the affidavits---the almighty LA Times is offering him an apology in print !!!!
As Derek Jeter is saying do not be so quick to condemn
My guess is that he is listening to his people. lawyers and agent---did you read the reports today on the affidavits---the almighty LA Times is offering him an apology in print !!!!
As Derek Jeter is saying do not be so quick to condemn
Mr. Derek Jeter, Esq. See, everybody has an opinion and entitled to it.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Turtle
My guess is that he is listening to his people. lawyers and agent---did you read the reports today on the affidavits---the almighty LA Times is offering him an apology in print !!!!
As Derek Jeter is saying do not be so quick to condemn
I found a correction that is a very long way from an apology. Could you please post a link to the apoplogy?
quote:The unsealed affidavit contradicts a story The Times published Oct. 1, 2006. Citing anonymous sources, including a Grimsley confidant and an individual "with authorized access to [the] unredacted affidavit," The Times' story said Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Brian Roberts, Jay Gibbons, Miguel Tejada and Segui and strength coach Brian McNamee were named in the document. In fact, Clemens, Pettitte, Gibbons and Roberts were not named. Also, The Times' report said Grimsley alleged that Tejada used anabolic steroids. The only mention of Tejada in the affidavit was a conversation he had with teammates about baseball's ban on amphetamines.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-baseball21dec21,1,3...y?ctrack=1&cset=true
DAD04
They are coming out with a retration in the next day or two
Look for it
They are coming out with a retration in the next day or two
Look for it
quote:Originally posted by spizzlepop:
What really bothers me is guys like ESPN's Eric Cassilias spouting off that there's nothing wrong with using "Steroid Era" PEDs because there was nothing wrong with it AT THE TIME.
Some guys just don't get it.
It is amazing - that on a major network - they can trot someone out like Cassilias - and he can tell all of the young ESPN viewers out their - that there was nothing wrong with breaking the laws of the United States - as long as it didnt break any MLB rules.
Just sickening.
How do people like Cassilias get on TV - and who puts them there?
That is the most interesting question to me.
I am glad to see that Roger is very directly refuting the accusations. I hope he is telling the truth.
But this topic has gone way beyond heating up IMO.
It has officially boiled over.
Way too many cheaters and liars in the game - and it is high time we find out who was lying and cheating and who wasnt. And when we do - we need to get rid of the cheaters and liars immediately.
Again - I hope that Roger isnt one of them - and I am glad he is being so direct in denying what has been said about him.
But this topic has gone way beyond heating up IMO.
It has officially boiled over.
Way too many cheaters and liars in the game - and it is high time we find out who was lying and cheating and who wasnt. And when we do - we need to get rid of the cheaters and liars immediately.
Again - I hope that Roger isnt one of them - and I am glad he is being so direct in denying what has been said about him.
I am not an expert on this steroid scandal, but would like some thoughts on what I think. It seems to me that the commissioner and all of the board should have made very strict standards regarding steriods a long time ago. To me, it seems they turned their back to it. Even when they have proof. Obviously they have proof because it was revealed in the investigation. The entire governing body should resign, the records should stay, and the new body should implement a no tolerance policy. One strike and you're out!
No tolerance policy is for cowards afraid to evaluate facts and think. No tolerance allows for some terrible mistakes.quote:the new body should implement a no tolerance policy
I know an athlete who lost the senior season of high school and a college ride over a no tolerance policy. Later, it turned out she was innocent. The ride was gone by then. The school wouldn't reconsider their no tolerance policy. Yes, the family sued.