Scholarship Advice?

Great question, i am sure it depends on how bad they want him. I would think anything in the area of 50-65% on athletic then whatever he may get for his smarts. I have a 2012 as well but not a P so I am just guessing here. I know a 2way player 2012 on my sons team that got a offer from a Big Ten team just south of 50% athletic.

This is an unanswerable question imho because it really boils down to a personal decision.

If financial considerations are the most important controlling factor, then anything less than 100% may not do it. The SEC is arguably the best baseball conference in America. Thus, a 25-50% offer in the SEC may very well translate to an 80-100% offer in a lessor conference.

If baseball and academics are the controlling factors, then your family might be able to take what is offered (assuming less than 100% which is the norm in college baseball) and sleep well at night knowing your son has an opportunity that is not enjoyed by many others.

If this is an offer from South Carolina for example (not suggesting you tell us) then you could be bypassing an opportunity to play on the very best team in the nation right now. On the other hand, since he is a 2012, I don't see the need to rush this decision unless, unless, this is "the" school he absolutely always wanted to play at. If you wait, that school will likely move on. There is risk in making an early decision (something better might come along) and there is risk in waiting. Only you can decide that.

If they want him badly he should get 100%, especially when he is a LHP!

"Fair and honorable" has too many variables to give any general answers.

Just doing the math, an "average" scholarship at a fully funded program is 43% (11.7 scholarships divided by 27 players), but it's never that simple in real life, and the correlation between talent and scholarship amount can be pretty weak, or even inverse, at times.

First off, coaches have a fiduciary responsibility to get the most talent for the scholarship money they spend, and they have studied all the angles for doing so. That's their job, and it's honorable for them to do it. Some schools do it by bringing in most of their freshmen at lower amounts and increasing them later as they prove their worth and demonstrate need. Some schools, especially in states where lottery or other non-athletic money makes tuition very afordable for in-state students, will give bigger percentages to out-of-state students.

Market demand for the player can also be a factor. No matter how good you are, if you're an unknown "diamond in the rough", the school that did discover you will give you a lower offer than it gives a better known player even if you project higher.

Ultimately, "fair and honorable" comes down to what the player and his family feel good about accepting and how well they can bear the financial burdens the deal leaves to them. If you're convinced that a certain school offers the best combination of academics, baseball, and whatever else you want from a college, 25% from that school may be a better value than 75% from a school that is a less ideal match. (My son accepted an offer with twice the out-of-pocket expenses of his best monetary offer for this reason.)

You also want to consider what you get in return. When evaluating offers from the SEC and comparing them to other schools that may be offering higher percentages and lower out-of-pocket expenses, you should consider the value of the academic and other support the SEC schools provide. With good reason, many SEC parents consider the institutional resources and support to be worth more than the scholarship.

Best wishes.

Great points Swamp Boy….I’ll add my 2 cents…

This a good question as I don’t feel that there is anything wrong with trying to determine the “market value” of your recruit. As my friend Eric G stated, my son received an athletic offer (and accepted) from a Big 10 school that covered all his tuition and books (not room and board) and broke down to a little under 50% of the total cost. Could he have received more from another school? Yeah but some of the other factors for him were ----- coaching staffs history of developing 2 way players, quality of education, direction of the program amongst other factors. Also, there should be some academic money based on his grades and ACT score.

You might be faced with a situation where the highest offer isn’t necessarily the best for your student athlete. For a good LHP, I would think 50% is a solid bottom floor and look up from there.

SR42 - I think you offer excellent advice but I wonder if you don't see the contradiction in the last sentence of your post? How can you say what the bottom number is without considering the other fine factors you point out? 50% may be the bottom number for "you" but without considering all the personal things and various factors associated with each offer, I don't see how any of us can say what a good offer or "bottom" offer ought to be for somebody else? For example, who is to say that a 25% offer in the SEC might not be worth more than a 50% offer in the Big 10? It seems to me that only the family who has received the offer can make that decision.

I am not necessarily disagreeing with you but it does seem to be at least a "slight" contradiction.

Ha! Yeah you’re right…. I did contradict myself there. It is a lot more challenging dealing with these partial scholarships as opposed to football and basketball. It is important to weigh everything out. Maybe the better answer would be ………start with a bottom floor of 25% and based on all other factors that are important, factor those into what is “fair offer”

SR42 - like I said, your advice is excellent, just keeping the discussion alive as it is an interesting topic.

I am guessing like you that a 2012 who has been offered this early is indeed being offered 50% or more! Good stuff and welcome to the hsbbweb! We need more Ohioans here

I should add that as usual, Swampboy's advice is outstanding as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Sdlefty:
If they want him badly he should get 100%, especially when he is a LHP!

I understand that you qualified your comment with, if they want him badly. However, 100% is pretty rare, and I'd imagine even less so at an ACC or SEC school.

One of the things that's failed to have been mentioned, is the popularity of the school and how that affects offers. If the schools has hundreds if not thousands of players desiring to play there (Texas comes to mind here), coaches can be much tighter with the wallet. Also, schools have different priorities, i.e. Texas likes to spend the bulk of its money on pitching because the position players are lined up around the block to play there.

A team from a lower conference may offer the same player a higher percentage because they know they are competing with the big boys and need to sweeten the pot.

Another factor is draftability. Is the player really projected to be a top 3 round draft pick? If so, coaches will get even sweeter. If not, and the player is just a projectably good SEC player, then the coach may hold back on some money.

Assessment of the landscape along with player desirability is part of the whole package that helps coaches determine offers.

Given that it's an SEC school, I think we can assume its full 11.7 allotment is funded. Because when a school has a lesser budget, that becomes a big factor.

When you say your son is looking at being an early commit (fall of his junior year), and we're talking SEC, this to me says your son is a stud. If he's being viewed as a potential weekend starter, you'd like to see 70% as a minimum. You almost never see as much as 90%. 100%, I don't know if Koufax would get that these days.

CPLZ makes a very good point, though. LSU has kids from all over the country wanting to go there. So, if you push things too far, they can just move on to another kid. They may well try to wrap a kid up for, say, 50%, so that they have more to spend on building team depth. Texas is another school in this position. UVA does this, too, though it is more of a newcomer in the ranks of "national powerhouse programs".

Another factor is where you are. For U. Florida and U. Georgia, you may have Hope Scholarships or Bright Futures paying a big part of your son's college tab already. If you're in-state at either of those SEC schools, they may be able to commit a much lower percentage and yet still get you with one very attractive total financial package. Given this advantage and the availability of top talent in those two states, I frankly have never figured out why they ever take a recruit from out of state.

How does Financial Aid play into a scholarship offer? Son has a 65% of total tuition/room/board/fees offer (although it was presented to him as a dollar amount and 85% of tuition). We will fill out the FAFSA. Anyone know how that might be calculated? With two in college, we may qualify for Federal Aid as well - if the school will recognize it.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:


100%, I don't know if Koufax would get that these days.

Yeah, but that's because Koufax only throws in the mid-80's now!

Here is how it worked when son was offered to UF many years ago, not sure how it's done these days in schools with state funded tution.

95% of room and board on athletic, books paid for by athletic department, tuition was 100% through bright futures and a 5K reward from the state of FL for being talented top 20 (top 20% of graduationg class, if he qualified after graduation, not sure if they do that anymore). Son would be getting money to spend if that happened. If he didn't receive that award, then cost out of pocket was minimal to attend. 600 per semester.
The dollar breakdown for the athletic commitment of the school was not even 50% of a full scholarship, tuition would be paid by state of FL under Bright Futures. The out of state school he attended actually awarded a much higher athletic commitment but out of pocket more for us, but that was his right fit. They don't know but he would have gone for nothing.

I agree with CD, this can be an unanswerable question. It's all how you want to look at it, does it really matter where the money comes from (atheltic or academic or combined), or how much you have to write the check for each semester after scholarship deductions? Or doesn't it matter at all, many players usually sign where they think is the right fit, despite the offer, or the program. Top D1 programs are not for every player.

Good points here, keep in mind LHP/RHP don't usually recieve as much if the coach doesn't see him as a starter. Sometimes the amount given signals the role expected. Sometimes for pitchers it's how many different pitches you throw for strikes. And many of the super schools do not give out as much as one thinks in athletic awards (above 25%) because they can have their pick of the crop. Here in FL because of three powerhouse programs, the top recruit who finds all 3 recruiting them gets nice offers.

Coaches are going to give what they want, what they can afford to give your player for what role they will see him in and his position, if they see him as a draft potential might be more to keep him from not signing, only you and your player can decide what is fair and honorable.

In other words, the value of the scholarship is dependent upon the satisfaction of the player offered, is this where he wants to go to school, where he wants to play, geography, student life, etc. Very important to keep that in mind when making the decision.

To reinforce some of what has been said here, try not to lose sight of two very important facets:

(1) the relative attractiveness of each school offering a scholarship (not just baseball...the total picture), and
(2) the fact that athletic scholarships can be raised or lowered annually.

If a scholarship makes it possible for your son to attend and play for a school that is extremely high on his list, I'd resist the temptation to accept a higher offer at a school that was less attractive.

Meanwhile, if you think he's capable of contributing more to the team than his initial offer suggests, find out if the coaching staffs of programs you're considering seriously have a track record of rewarding a player's contribution over time. If so, his growing contribution can be rewarded with increasing scholarship amounts.

Obviously, you need to be prepared to fund whatever shortfall exists initially, in case it remains the same during his 3 or 4 years there. However, it's not unusual for consistently high contributors to see their award increased.

(By the way, while scholarship commitments are good for a year, it's also not all that unusual for some funds to become available at the middle of the school year. There's nothing that prevents a coaching staff from applying the freed-up funds to highly contributing players at that time.)

SWAPBOY-

quote:

First off, coaches have a fiduciary responsibility to get the most talent for the scholarship money they spend, and they have studied all the angles for doing so. That's their job, and it's honorable for them to do it. Some schools do it by bringing in most of their freshmen at lower amounts and increasing them later as they prove their worth and demonstrate need. Some schools, especially in states where lottery or other non-athletic money makes tuition very afordable for in-state students, will give bigger percentages to out-of-state students.

Do coaches/recruiters condider the the players family financial situation when making offers. If they think that the players family can afford the cost of an education at their school would they withold money in their offer???

quote:

Originally posted by johnj314:
Do coaches/recruiters condider the the players family financial situation when making offers. If they think that the players family can afford the cost of an education at their school would they withold money in their offer???

That question can't be answered as a generalization. It depends on the individual coach, the team and how popular it is, the player and how much desire he has for that particular school, etc.

Could it be a factor, yes, maybe.

Wow... as primarily an observer, I've gathered a lot of great info from this website over the last year or so, but the feedback on this thread is really outstanding!!! I'm not the original poster but many thanks to the contributors.

Personally, if they are coming after him as a junior he is a very talented young man and this D1 college wants him very bad. This offer should be pretty sweet that should include tuition, books and housing at a minumum.

Keep swinging it...

quote:

Originally posted by Sdlefty:
This offer should be pretty sweet that should include tuition, books and housing at a minumum.

I'm a little confused. An offer that contains tuition, books and housing is a full ride. Besides the fact that this is very rare in baseball, if that is the minimum, anything beyond that would be a violation, wouldn't it?

Don't forget meals. ...and the way some of our guys eat, that could be a BIG number!

FOOD!

With my son this is a big deal. Eats all **** day! This alone could add up fast - approx. $200 per week. I do think food can be included in their scholarship offer.

Lefty
Keep on swinging it...

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:

quote:

Originally posted by Sdlefty:
This offer should be pretty sweet that should include tuition, books and housing at a minumum.

I'm a little confused. An offer that contains tuition, books and housing is a full ride. Besides the fact that this is very rare in baseball, if that is the minimum, anything beyond that would be a violation, wouldn't it?

I think that there was a school out west, that is now on probation, that used to give these sort of offers. ha!

Just because a school wants you bad enough doesn’t mean they are going to give you some huge offer. The coach only has a finite amount of money. They have already proven that they want you by making an offer.