Are there any alternatives that a D1 can offer if their 11.7 scholarships have been filled?
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Academic money if his grades are good enough.
I was recently in a conversation with a group of dads at a workout talking about scholarship amounts and limits. Someone said that those 11.7 scholarships are divided amongst only twenty five players and that none of them could recieve less than a twenty five percent scholarship amount. So are the additional ten players on the roster all walk ons and academic scholarships?
Currently, its 27 players, which means that 8 players on a full roster are non-athletic scholarship, or, alternatively, full-tuition payers.
And many times that number is much greater than 8. Rarely if ever is the money split up between the 27 players equally.
You could pay for the first year out of pocket and ask for a higher scholarship for years 2,3 and 4 if not drafted.
As kids graduate or get drafted the allocation of the 11.7 moves around on teams.
If your son loves the school, coach etc, see if you can get a future commitment with a higher percent the last 3 years.
As kids graduate or get drafted the allocation of the 11.7 moves around on teams.
If your son loves the school, coach etc, see if you can get a future commitment with a higher percent the last 3 years.
quote:You could pay for the first year out of pocket and ask for a higher scholarship for years 2,3 and 4 if not drafted.
Realistically that is highly unlikely ! Maybe if you are one of the top players but thay will use freed up money on new talent ! With the sit rule the coach has a big advantage !!
What is the "sit rule"?
If your son is a D1 player and on a D1 roster and wishes to transfer to another D1 school he will have to sit out a year before he can play. So lets say a player is a Soph and the coach cuts his scholly or reduces it to give to an incoming player and he wants to transfer. He will have to move down to D2 D3 or JUCO or sit out a year if he decides to transfer to another D1 school.
The fact is if you go into a college program with no basball money your chances of getting baseball money down the road are slim. There are exceptions. But the vast amount of scholly money is given to incoming recruits and established contributors to the program. If your son has a very good year and asks to be put on scholarship what can he bargain with? I will transfer? Well if you do you will have to sit or play down. Coaches hold all the cards and it is pretty much assumed if you come with nothing you will stay with nothing.
The fact is if you go into a college program with no basball money your chances of getting baseball money down the road are slim. There are exceptions. But the vast amount of scholly money is given to incoming recruits and established contributors to the program. If your son has a very good year and asks to be put on scholarship what can he bargain with? I will transfer? Well if you do you will have to sit or play down. Coaches hold all the cards and it is pretty much assumed if you come with nothing you will stay with nothing.
quote:You could pay for the first year out of pocket and ask for a higher scholarship for years 2,3 and 4 if not drafted.
Ironically, getting drafted will improve your son's "bargining position" with the coach and is one of the few situations where more money maybe offered by the coach to keep your son from leaving.
Not getting any money to attend generally means your son is starting an uphill battle. Some hills are steeper then others
So, it would appear from these replies, if there are no scholarships open, we should move on to the next school that hasn't filled their quota of 11.7.
That is a decision you have to make. If BB money is important in your decision over and above academic money,grants etc ,then you have to realize that it is unlikely you will get BB money down the road !
To us we wanted max BB money and academic money and we held out for it. Nice not to have debt after graduating ! Most of my son's teammates owed large debts up to 80 thousand dollars. Several players left during the 4 years with money issues ! I would ask him about a player and he told me they could not pay tuition etc !
To us we wanted max BB money and academic money and we held out for it. Nice not to have debt after graduating ! Most of my son's teammates owed large debts up to 80 thousand dollars. Several players left during the 4 years with money issues ! I would ask him about a player and he told me they could not pay tuition etc !
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
That is a decision you have to make. If BB money is important in your decision over and above academic money,grants etc ,then you have to realize that it is unlikely you will get BB money down the road !
To us we wanted max BB money and academic money and we held out for it. Nice not to have debt after graduating ! Most of my son's teammates owed large debts up to 80 thousand dollars. Several players left during the 4 years with money issues ! I would ask him about a player and he told me they could not pay tuition etc !
Yes, that's the crux of it. Minimize debt, I honestly don't care where the $$ comes from but, 50% here, 25% there, another scrap elsewhere.
$80K debt? Screw that, especially from Walmart U!
We'll go D3 at a state school otherwise.
My son's college had a reasonable tuition as US colleges go.
You have food,apt travel and entertainment which adds up real quick. Some I know owed 100 grand after 4 years.
You have to be careful you don't get caught up in the hype and that includes brand name schools. Most D1 schools give a great opportunity to learn and get a great job.
My son worked 2 part time jobs and had a free full meal plan ! He loved the jobs as well as the whole experience.
You have food,apt travel and entertainment which adds up real quick. Some I know owed 100 grand after 4 years.
You have to be careful you don't get caught up in the hype and that includes brand name schools. Most D1 schools give a great opportunity to learn and get a great job.
My son worked 2 part time jobs and had a free full meal plan ! He loved the jobs as well as the whole experience.
quote:(but modified by 3FG)
If your sonis a D1 player and on a D1 roster andwishes to transfer toanothera D1 school from any 4 year school he will have to sit out a year before he can play.
There are however a couple of exceptions to the sit out rule; one involves a player who was not recruited to his original 4 year school, and who has not received any athletic aid.
What surprises me is that all of a sudden parents of players realize that tuition and expenses have to be paid when he/she goes off to college. Surprise!
BTW, being a talented player doesn't necessarily mean much in bb scholarship awards either these days.
I am not sure of the OP's original point, is the player thinking of walking on? Has the player been offered a walk on position and not help in receiving academic aid? What does moving on to the next school mean. Has your son been recruited to these schools?
It's just not where you sign up and get some money, it doesn't work like that, it may just maybe me who is confused as to your point.
State schools are great options, tuition is reasonable, and have great academic programs. Also be aware, that MOST baseball players do not work during their time at college, MOST do not get drafted (to bargain with scholarship money) and as stated MANY programs do not even fully fund their scholarships. Do not overlook JUCO.
The approach taken should be as your player begins HS should be about going to college, how would you pay for his/her education regardless of being involved or not in sports. That might also include being a very good student, so that if athletic money is not offered, academic can be.
BTW, being a talented player doesn't necessarily mean much in bb scholarship awards either these days.
I am not sure of the OP's original point, is the player thinking of walking on? Has the player been offered a walk on position and not help in receiving academic aid? What does moving on to the next school mean. Has your son been recruited to these schools?
It's just not where you sign up and get some money, it doesn't work like that, it may just maybe me who is confused as to your point.
State schools are great options, tuition is reasonable, and have great academic programs. Also be aware, that MOST baseball players do not work during their time at college, MOST do not get drafted (to bargain with scholarship money) and as stated MANY programs do not even fully fund their scholarships. Do not overlook JUCO.
The approach taken should be as your player begins HS should be about going to college, how would you pay for his/her education regardless of being involved or not in sports. That might also include being a very good student, so that if athletic money is not offered, academic can be.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
What surprises me is that all of a sudden parents of players realize that tuition and expenses have to be paid when he/she goes off to college. Surprise!
BTW, being a talented player doesn't necessarily mean much in bb scholarship awards either these days.
I am not sure of the OP's original point, is the player thinking of walking on? Has the player been offered a walk on position and not help in receiving academic aid? What does moving on to the next school mean. Has your son been recruited to these schools?
It's just not where you sign up and get some money, it doesn't work like that, it may just maybe me who is confused as to your point.
State schools are great options, tuition is reasonable, and have great academic programs. Also be aware, that MOST baseball players do not work during their time at college, MOST do not get drafted (to bargain with scholarship money) and as stated MANY programs do not even fully fund their scholarships. Do not overlook JUCO.
The approach taken should be as your player begins HS should be about going to college, how would you pay for his/her education regardless of being involved or not in sports. That might also include being a very good student, so that if athletic money is not offered, academic can be.
College costs $$? Prepare for that?
No kidding?
Poor economy or not, there can be life altering events that impact a family that makes "college $$" a luxury.
I thought my original question was pretty straightforward, were I an expert on such topics I wouldn't have asked.
quote:Originally posted by stage4survivor:
College costs $$? Prepare for that?
No kidding?
Poor economy or not, there can be life altering events that impact a family that makes "college $$" a luxury.
I thought my original question was pretty straightforward, were I an expert on such topics I wouldn't have asked.
Absolutely. When son was in HS, I had some personal circumstances that kept me out of work, I know that things happen, you make the best of the situation by doing your homework as to options that will help pay for college. That includes other options besides baseball money.
How do you know that the scholarships are filled, did the coach tell you that? Going from school to school trying to see if they have money available, is that the plan, is he being recruited or are you just looking for options, what was the comment regarding Walmart U?
TPM, it sounds to me he is putting the cart before the horse? Unless you live in a state that has an in state free tuition program, I heard Florida has one. There are only two basic ways. Academic or Athletic money. If cost is a big concern like for us, we chose the school that offered $$$, and so happened to be JUCO. And like a lot of parents, I put a little money away for his education. He will leave JUCO with no loans and we have a little left over. His next school offered him both athletic and academic for 100%.
If money is the concern here, go where you can get the most money, period.
If money is the concern here, go where you can get the most money, period.
Walmart U? Not gonna get saddled with big debt from a "lesser quality" academic school.
He has had a couple schools express interest but, admitted scholies are filled, no actual offers.
One said, "let me see what I can work out" hence my question on alternatives to athletic scholarships.
His ACT is 24 GPA +/-3.0 so, I don't think merit will work.
He has had a couple schools express interest but, admitted scholies are filled, no actual offers.
One said, "let me see what I can work out" hence my question on alternatives to athletic scholarships.
His ACT is 24 GPA +/-3.0 so, I don't think merit will work.
quote:Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
TPM, it sounds to me he is putting the cart before the horse?
That's what I am trying to figure out, he mentioned D3 programs, aren't they expensive?
FL does not have free tuition, one has to earn it through GPA, and other requirements. State tuition is reasonable compared to going out of state.
If there is a monetary hardship, there are options available, but students have to qualify. My point was not to solely rely on athletic money.
stage4,
I am going to assume the financial issues with college are real.
Looking at your previous posts on the site, I now see your son his a HS senior soon to graduate.
Based on experience, I would not be banking on DI as your answer, either for baseball or financially.
I don't want to sound harsh, just realistic.
While I could repeat a story about Chris Lambert who got a last minute scholarship to BC and was heavily recruited based on a PG showcase in July following his senior year, I would also need to say he was 92-94, with more upside when that occurred.
My view is that parents and players like yours(ours was in a similar baseball and GPA situation) need to identify the best academic, financial and baseball experience, regardless of level.
I fully appreciate this board is very much DI. I want to assure you there are great options at other levels for academics and baseball.
College baseball does not begin and end with DI. Plenty of DI rosters have players who would struggle at the best DIII's and the same is true, many DIII's could compete at many, many DI's.
The SUNYAC has some of the best DIII's in the nation with kids who can really play and compete. JH attends Oneonta. They nearly ended up in the DIII CWS last season with a pitcher drafted in the 4th(?) round.
If you have not sent a PM to JH, I would encourage you to do that today. He is smart, practical and very helpful with his college and baseball/SUNYAC knowledge.
Cortland State is a power almost every year.
While I don't know the academics of each, if JH is any example, they have to be very solid.
If I were in your shoes, based on experience, I would not count on DI at this point. I would not give it up, but would not count on it.
I would work with my son to focus on those schools and coaches who want him, perhaps expand the DII and DIII options in New England, and be surprised if yours might get a great DI situation next June/July after the draft and season are complete.
Even then, DI baseball schollies are renewable annually, and we read about plenty of players where that, unfortunately, does not happen..
Good luck to you and your son in the next few months of this journey.
I assure you most everyone on this site wants to help you and your son be in a great situation next August and September.
We don't all express it the same way because we all had different experiences on that path.
We all want you and your son to succeed!
I am going to assume the financial issues with college are real.
Looking at your previous posts on the site, I now see your son his a HS senior soon to graduate.
Based on experience, I would not be banking on DI as your answer, either for baseball or financially.
I don't want to sound harsh, just realistic.
While I could repeat a story about Chris Lambert who got a last minute scholarship to BC and was heavily recruited based on a PG showcase in July following his senior year, I would also need to say he was 92-94, with more upside when that occurred.
My view is that parents and players like yours(ours was in a similar baseball and GPA situation) need to identify the best academic, financial and baseball experience, regardless of level.
I fully appreciate this board is very much DI. I want to assure you there are great options at other levels for academics and baseball.
College baseball does not begin and end with DI. Plenty of DI rosters have players who would struggle at the best DIII's and the same is true, many DIII's could compete at many, many DI's.
The SUNYAC has some of the best DIII's in the nation with kids who can really play and compete. JH attends Oneonta. They nearly ended up in the DIII CWS last season with a pitcher drafted in the 4th(?) round.
If you have not sent a PM to JH, I would encourage you to do that today. He is smart, practical and very helpful with his college and baseball/SUNYAC knowledge.
Cortland State is a power almost every year.
While I don't know the academics of each, if JH is any example, they have to be very solid.
If I were in your shoes, based on experience, I would not count on DI at this point. I would not give it up, but would not count on it.
I would work with my son to focus on those schools and coaches who want him, perhaps expand the DII and DIII options in New England, and be surprised if yours might get a great DI situation next June/July after the draft and season are complete.
Even then, DI baseball schollies are renewable annually, and we read about plenty of players where that, unfortunately, does not happen..
Good luck to you and your son in the next few months of this journey.
I assure you most everyone on this site wants to help you and your son be in a great situation next August and September.
We don't all express it the same way because we all had different experiences on that path.
We all want you and your son to succeed!
ID,
I appreciate that and yes, we've been in contact with JH.
We are exploring D2 & D3. We'll be visiting a D3 that has contacted us and expressed what appears to be very genuine interest shortly.
I'm completely ignorant of this whole process but, learning.
A couple of members here have been beyond helpful in ferreting out this minefield.
Thanks
I appreciate that and yes, we've been in contact with JH.
We are exploring D2 & D3. We'll be visiting a D3 that has contacted us and expressed what appears to be very genuine interest shortly.
I'm completely ignorant of this whole process but, learning.
A couple of members here have been beyond helpful in ferreting out this minefield.
Thanks
quote:I'm completely ignorant of this whole process but, learning.
A couple of members here have been beyond helpful in ferreting out this minefield.
This site has some of the nicest, kindest and most supportive folks and they will stick with you for support and help, and others will expand your circle of support.
Even those of us who think we know things are "ignorant" of many aspects of the entire picture.
That is why this site is so remarkable.
I wish I could offer more specific help for you. We are from CA and our son(a DIII player from a University in TX) played in the NECBL with a number of DII kids from New England including players from Franklin Pierce and U-Mass, Lowell and from DIII's in the SUNYAC, Little East and NESCAC.
They were wonderful players. I can vouch for that.
24 ACT and 3.2ish GPA
Actually, you might still find scholarship money at some schools that are not academic powerhouses. No offense, but "Walmart U" is a bit of an insult, and while your son's grades and ACTs are good, they are not going to merit scholarship worthy at some "Neimann Marcus U" school.
I think what you're trying to find is the right balance of baseball playing opportunity, good education, financial reimbursement situation for your son.
It's a VERY hard combination to fill and one or the other of those opportunities (sport/academic/money) may have to give in order to find the best solution for you at this point in time your son's senior year.
Actually, you might still find scholarship money at some schools that are not academic powerhouses. No offense, but "Walmart U" is a bit of an insult, and while your son's grades and ACTs are good, they are not going to merit scholarship worthy at some "Neimann Marcus U" school.
I think what you're trying to find is the right balance of baseball playing opportunity, good education, financial reimbursement situation for your son.
It's a VERY hard combination to fill and one or the other of those opportunities (sport/academic/money) may have to give in order to find the best solution for you at this point in time your son's senior year.
quote:We are exploring D2 & D3. We'll be visiting a D3 that has contacted us and expressed what appears to be very genuine interest shortly.
I would recomend keeping your options open by also visiting a few JCs. That way, if you're not satisfied with the options out of HS you can "reset" the process. In state JC's are pretty cheap and can provide great exposure to many 4 year schools. If baseball is important to your son, you really need to find a program with a sincere interest in him.
quote:Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
[QUOTE] (but modified by 3FG)
There are however a couple of exceptions to the sit out rule; one involves a player who was not recruited to his original 4 year school, and who has not received any athletic aid.
What is considered "recruited" for purposes of this rule? Is a invited walk-on "recruited?" What if there was no "official" visit?
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
That's what I am trying to figure out, he mentioned D3 programs, aren't they expensive?
Just to clarify for you, both NY (SUNYAC) and NJ (NJAC) have a bunch of state schools that all play D3. And quite frankly they put out top quality baseball programs that every year put teams in the D3 World Series. Very good less expensive options.
Very well said Infieldad.
See 13.02.13.1 in the D1 Manual for the exact definition of "recruited". (Basically, to be un-recruited, no official visit, no off-campus pre-arranged contact, not more than one coach-initiated phone call, no offer of aid.)
Division Manuals
Division Manuals
quote:Originally posted by birdman14:quote:Originally posted by TPM:
That's what I am trying to figure out, he mentioned D3 programs, aren't they expensive?
Just to clarify for you, both NY (SUNYAC) and NJ (NJAC) have a bunch of state schools that all play D3. And quite frankly they put out top quality baseball programs that every year put teams in the D3 World Series. Very good less expensive options.
Thanks, I am not really that familiar with the differences in D3 in other states.
Sometimes we come here asking questions and the purpose is unclear, now with some more posts have a clearer understanding of what was meant in the OP's first post.
I am not sure what "lessor' quality actually means, but I do understand not wanting to end up in debt.
Would this mean that you would have your son go to a lessor quality school if it were for free?
Please do not rule out what a good fit should be for each indivual player. JC's may be a very good option for him until his game/academics improve and so do finances.
CollegeParentNoMore, it appears the OP by leaving out the dreaded term "JC" is not going in that direction no matter what others have expressed. I'm sure something along the lines of DII or DIII will come along. Our son did get a lot of attention from DIIIs but we ruled them out due to the expense and his grades.
Stage 4, we have seen many players on our son's JC who transferred from a D1 program so those schools aren't for everyone, freshman are lucky to get any meaningful playing time. That is their explanation, but some leave due to grades too.
BTW, I'm not the least offended by your opinion of JCs, to each his own. Its not the end of the world if junior has to go there, whats important is his education. Best wishes on your son's college experience.
Stage 4, we have seen many players on our son's JC who transferred from a D1 program so those schools aren't for everyone, freshman are lucky to get any meaningful playing time. That is their explanation, but some leave due to grades too.
BTW, I'm not the least offended by your opinion of JCs, to each his own. Its not the end of the world if junior has to go there, whats important is his education. Best wishes on your son's college experience.
I'm not excluding JC's, just not aware of any in the northeast
Stage4 - NJ has some quality community colleges that you could pursue. I will ask around about NY state JC's and get back to you, so you have those options available.
Stagefour, I must say at least on this website, I have not heard much about NE JUCOs. Lots on CA and Fla though.
IMO the quality JC's in NJ are Brookdale CC, Jersey Shore area and a nationally ranked team D3; County College of Morris, Northern NJ; and Gloucester CC, South Jersey. Most other JC are average or poor at best.
I will post some LI,NY JC's tomorrow.
I will post some LI,NY JC's tomorrow.
Son's getting pretty discouraged at this point, doesn't want to attend any more tryout camps unless he knows they have scholarships available.
Reality can be difficult
Reality can be difficult
You will rarely, if ever be privileged to know that information. If my son could we would go to every tryout camp that there was. We always thought they were fun and exciting!
Not sure why a player would not want another opportunity to swing a bat or throw his best pitch, demonstrating why a particular program should love to have him...
Not sure why a player would not want another opportunity to swing a bat or throw his best pitch, demonstrating why a particular program should love to have him...
You can run up quite a tab going to these camps. I wouldn't go to any D1 camps again knowing what I know now, if son isn't a good student, at least recruiting wise you are throwing away good money. Your son may get some benefit of learning something, in the end they can't go over everything throughly.
If I had to put my $$$ it would be in good hitting training, unless son is pitcher, than pitching coach.
If I had to put my $$$ it would be in good hitting training, unless son is pitcher, than pitching coach.
Yeah, I think we're done with these tryout camps. As I understand the NCAA rules, no offers could be made until the middle of March even if a D1 wanted to make an offer.