Scoring question

FC in my book

Fielder's choice in my book too.

Thanks for the comments. It was a fielders choice in my book too, but the dad insisted that it should be a hit for his son. I changed it at the time to avoid having a debate in the scoring booth while the game was going on, but I think I'll follow up on it. For better or worse, I believe in getting it right, always. If it had been my son who was the batter it would have been a fielder's choice, and of course there wouldn't have been a debate then.

06catcherdad

If your like me I tend to abuse my son. I keep the book and if there is the slightest chance between error, FC or hit, I put down the error or FC. I gently mention my scoring to others who now argue more for my son rather then their own. It has taken a couple of seasons but people don't seem to even ask anymore. Mind you my son is not in HS yet and I know the pressure increases.

This is why most HS stats are of little use. Anyone above HS baseball discounts stats from HS. There is just no way to authenticate batting averages due to home scoring and level of competition......However, I applaud you for trying to get this right.

NFHS rules 2-14 Article 1-Fielders Choice


A fielders choice is the act of a fielder with a live ball, who elects to throw for an attempted putout or to retire unassisted any runner or batter runner, thus permitting the advance of another runner.

Your situation is a classic definition of a fielders choice.
I cant tell you how many times I do a game then read the paper account the next day and I have to wonder if we were even at the same game.....you see one player listed as going 3-3 when you knew that he went 1-3.....on 2 errors that were "home scored" as hits......

PIAA, thanks for the NFHS rule. I was going to look it up, but misplaced my rulebook. The main reason that I keep the book is that I am very serious about getting it right all of the time, regardless of who doesn't like it. Last night, it was just a whole lot easier to change it in the booth than argue about it. My own kid doesn't get any breaks from this scorekeeper, and just like PIAA says, others have told me before that I should have scored a hit when I marked E for my sons at-bat. The particular dad involved in this question is one of those who supports his own son in every way he can, and I'm sure he means well, but his glasses are a little tinted when it comes to his own boy, and his judgement is a little tainted.

Thanks for all the good supporting information.

I know this can be difficult, as some honors are based on submitted stats, such as all section, local papers "Player of the Year" stuff so the pressure on you as the scorer is high....

And, if you take batting averages with a "grain of salt", just think about ERA.

It's easy, if you're pitching shutouts, but otherwise it's a **** shoot.

It was actually kind of humorous how this turned out. We played this evening, and I had already emailed the coach to tell him of the scoring error and my intent to change it. I got the book today and made the proper change. After our game, I'm going over the scorebook with the coach and mentioned the play from last night that started this post. The coach didn't know anything about what had happened between me and the dad. Anyway, as soon as I told him his response was that "no way is that a hit, it is a fielders choice all the way, without question." It's nice that he understood and agreed with the proper ruling.

PIAA has hit it the nail on the head again. The player in question should be a legit. candidate for all-league and should get some consideration for all section if he puts in a strong year, so Dad's assistance probably has more than a little to do with trying to help secure that honor.

PIAA, just to make sure:

NFHS rules 2-14 Article 1-Fielders Choice


A fielders choice is the act of a fielder with a live ball, who elects to throw for an attempted putout or to retire unassisted any runner or batter runner, thus permitting the advance of another runner.

Does this mean he must throw or his intention was to throw.

Even though it is clearly a fielder's choice, I would have given the batter a hit. And why not? It has no credibility beyond your own circle and might add positive reinforcement. I have seen worse decisions in the big leagues plenty of times.

Sorry Jemaz, other than the kid's dad, nobody I've talked to about this thinks it should be a hit. If the player on 2nd hadn't made the bad choice to try to advance on a ball hit between him and 3rd, the play would have been a very routine 6-3 putout. The only reason the runner going to 3rd wasn't thrown out is that the 3rd baseman blew his assignment. So, lets say the 3rd baseman was where he was supposed to be and the runner going to 3rd is out, would you still give the batter a hit then? Of course not!

I'm a stickler for "getting it right", that's why I posted my original question and most here seem to affirm how I originally scored the play. It isn't about padding stats with me, for anyone.

If we expect our players to do things properly, shouldn't we also do our jobs properly, whether we're coaching, umpiring or keeping the scorebook? I can't disagree with you about positive reinforcement, but this kid is a HS player, and a very good one. He doesn't need support in the form of bogus stats. At least the players on our teams know their stats are true and accurate, whether they like them or not.

Score it a fielder's choice! There is only ONE right answer. If a hit is awarded when a hit is not earned, an injustice is being done to every other ball player on the field.
Fungo

06Catchersdad,

Was it Jemaz's kid who hit the ball? Enquiring minds want to know?

Maybe you should have told the dad to get away from the scorers table. Diplomatically of course. For anybody that knows anything about baseball it is a no brainer.

I won't kick 'em out. I just change the score book back to the correct call when they leave. Of course, most parents stay away from the scorers table, so it isn't much of a problem except with a few overzealous dads.

The funny thing about the guy complaining is that he really does know about baseball. He had a successful college career and has been around the game a lot. He's just a little over the top when it comes to his own boy.

jemaz is more right than ya think

by 06 catcherdad
" was going to look it up, but misplaced my rulebook - - I am very serious about getting it right all of the time - - My own kid doesn't get any breaks from this scorekeeper"

sorry, but there are "rules of scoring" by which games are scored - and a "serious" scorekeeper would read and understand those rules well, even before taking the book and scoring a game

and regarding "scoring breaks" as you call them - when a situation arises that is soley scorers judgement, and legitimitly could go either way, why would you not give your team or kid the benefit of that break?? your book comes off as more punitive than objective - and from those statements and additude is no better than the mom's in the stands -IMO

Well Bee, I guess I just don't know what I'm doing, even though I've been keeping books for years. The reason I questioned whether I had it right to begin with was that the dad cited his interpretation of the rule that clearly contradicted my understanding of it, and since I didn't have my rule book with me and didn't feel like arguing instead of paying attention to what was going on in the game, I changed it and thought I'd deal with it later. Given that the dad has played in college, and profesionally too, and does also undertand the rules, I did pause and wonder if I'd screwed it up for a moment, but like the old saying goes "I thought I was wrong once, but I was wrong for thinking I was wrong".

I'm truly sorry that I don't meet your standards of expectation in a scorekeeper, but I guess I'm also glad your son doesn't play with us, or else I'd have another parent questioning my scoring when their son is involved.

06CatcherDad-Don't lose any sleep over it. Not even the best know every
ruling-even though you were probably felt you were right to begin with it's
always right to give someone the benefit of the doubt and just say "I'll check
it out just to make sure".

No question-FC.

In Hawaii last week-Division I game against U of Hawaii-official scorer did
not give an error to three dropped foul balls by Hawaii 1B,C, and 3B. Any time
a muffed foul ball prolongs the time at bat-rule an error regardless of whether
batter makes an out or not.

Moc, I NEVER lose sleep. Just ask my family who all complain about my snoring!

06, ya asked for opinions, & I gave one
if you only want repsonses that agree with you just say so next time

you're right tho, I'd have little patience with a TOUGH scorer
my standard for a scorekeeper would be that he/she was FAIR - NOT TOUGH, just FAIR - - and in cases where the call actually could go either way, they should ALL go the way that benefits his team
it's pretty simple really

one more good rule of thumb, when jr is behind the dish - "anything" that goes to the screen is a WP


moc1 on the 3 muffed foul balls, ya prolly had to see 'em to call 'em - - did the ball just fall out on an easy play or was the fielder(s) going full speed diving & laid out on the grass and just was not able to complete the catch - that would seem to be the difference

Question
A player is called on third strike, cathcer drops the ball and player advances to firstbase, however on the way to firstbase the player leaves the baseline. The umpire call the player out. How is this scored in the book? Thanks

Pitcher gets the strikeout. Score the play the same way you would score it any time a runner is called out for leaving the baseline. Putout goes to closest fielder at the time.

My question is similar to 06catcherdad, the same situation with a runner on second the ball is hit to the shortstop, he fields the ball cleanly. He wants to through to third to get the runner out, but the third baseman is not on the bag, it is now too late to attempt to through the hitter out at first.

Can you still consider this a FC, since this player did not "elect to through for an attempted putout or to retire unassisted any runner or batter."? Or is this a hit since no play was made? Or is it an error since he didn't make the play to first?

This has happened many times this season, and different people have scored it different ways, I would like to know the official rules.