Selective Colleges

Pluses include: Top level school, fabulous setting on Lake Michigan, tremendous alumni connections. New AD. Access to Chicago.

Less than pluses include: Coach has been there awhile, sub-par baseball facility (particularly by Northwestern standards), Chicago winters extend into season. Did I mention cold weather?

A very close friend took his son on an official visit this Fall and the following was his opinion:
1. Head coach was a very nice individual
2. Joe Girardi has promised enough funds to build a new stadium.
3. Due to the high price tag they have a very small roster in the Spring.
4. They like two-way players
5. Freshmen must contribute
6. Few redshirts due to the cost
7. They travel during the early part of the season due to the Chicago area weather
8. Big 10 baseball not the SEC or PAC 10
9. He was told that academics come first
10. Girls at Northwestern were a 2 & the girls at Ole Miss were a 10

What is a "two-way" player? Thanks.

That's a player that both pitches and plays another position.

cbg you made me LOL with this one:
Girls at Northwestern were a 2 & the girls at Ole Miss were a 10

OK so that rules out Northwestern for my son!! (Just kidding --- but pretty gals are a must for him!)

Thanks everyone for comments.

In the past few years, I have had a few FHockey +fencers get recruited at NW. They love it.
Its a Great place for a 'brainy' athlete which is why I am asking.

I am finding that looking for a college / university that combines good / great baseball, great academics, and MONEY is a real challenge!! Trying to add in warm climate ---then the baseball aspect is suddenly "uber competitive" of course.

(A list like that might include Rice, Duke, UNC, Emory - but no money there - UVA top notch baseball......any other suggestions? Maybe this can be a new thread .... add Stanford of course....where else has that combo with athetic schol money and / or merit $$?)

By the way I am not implying that my 2013rhp is at that level ... too early to project that for sure!! But I think this info is great for lots of scholar-athletes on this HSBBW.


Thanks everyone - love this kind of insight.

quote:

(A list like that might include Rice, Duke, UNC, Emory - but no money there - UVA top notch baseball......any other suggestions? Maybe this can be a new thread .... add Stanford of course....where else has that combo with athetic schol money and / or merit $$?)

Vanderbilt
Wake Forest
Trinity Texas
Johns Hopkins
UC San Diego (probably all the UC's but maybe someone from California can comment). Probably a stretch to get recruited from the East coast to the West coast.
Lots of blue-blood academic D3 and D2's in the NE that have outstanding baseball programs. Perhaps TRhit would be kind enough to comment here.

Three liberal arts colleges in Ohio that are at the very top of D3 baseball include Wooster, Marietta, and Heidelberg.

quote:

I am finding that looking for a college / university that combines good / great baseball, great academics, and MONEY is a real challenge!! Trying to add in warm climate ---then the baseball aspect is suddenly "uber competitive" of course.

Yes, welcome to the funhouse or Nirvana as the case may be in trying to find all of these characteristics in one school that is a perfect fit. This is one of the big reasons this recruiting process takes so long. Especially the MONEY aspect as you could be paying more for out of state tuition for a warm climate state school (CT wasn't warm when I lived there)or even more expensive private school.

A few more schools I would add to the "good" baseball/very good education/warmer climate are William & Mary, Richmond and Elon.

cbg's friend was rather harsh on the NU girls. I'm willing to guess that they wore more clothes due to the weather than the Old Miss girls thereby pushng the numbers down! ;-)

Edit - Adding James Madison Univ

Very good additions to the list, I like those 3 schools a lot. And Cleveland Dad, good thoughts as well.

Thanks everyone! good thread.

Davidson

Southern/warmer weather schools with very good academics and well respected/successful baseball programs are many. In addition to those listed would include:
University of San Diego;
Pomona-Pitzer;
Rhodes College in Memphis;
Millsaps College in Jackson, Miss.;
Hendrix College in Conway, Ark.(recently)
All UC schools;
The DII schools in Fla. like Tampa, etc.
If someone is a very good player and student, there are many options within the schools listed in these last few posts.

quote:

Originally posted by fenwaysouth:

quote:

I am finding that looking for a college / university that combines good / great baseball, great academics, and MONEY is a real challenge!! Trying to add in warm climate ---then the baseball aspect is suddenly "uber competitive" of course.

Yes, welcome to the funhouse or Nirvana as the case may be in trying to find all of these characteristics in one school that is a perfect fit. This is one of the big reasons this recruiting process takes so long. Especially the MONEY aspect as you could be paying more for out of state tuition for a warm climate state school (CT wasn't warm when I lived there)or even more expensive private school.

A few more schools I would add to the "good" baseball/very good education/warmer climate are William & Mary, Richmond and Elon.

cbg's friend was rather harsh on the NU girls. I'm willing to guess that they wore more clothes due to the weather than the Old Miss girls thereby pushng the numbers down! ;-)

Afterthought - Adding James Madison Univ

I take it that you have never been to the "GROVE" @ Ole Miss for a Saturday afternoon football game. I have never seen as many beautiful women (Mamas included) as when my son took his offcial visit to Ole Miss several years ago. Comparing the two is like the professionals playing against amateurs.

While schools with combinations of good/great baseball and great academics exist (e.g., Rice, Stanford, Vandy); they do not exist on the power D1 level if you are a baseball player.

Except for the very, very few, combining a science/engineering major with baseball at the power D1s is impossible. Proof can be found by researching the majors of the baseball players attending those great academic powerhouses (pay attention only to majors of the jrs and srs -- the fr and sophs havent yet chosen a major.)

At lesser baseball levels (low D1 [e.g., Bucknell, IVY], and D3 (e.g., Emory, JH, Rose-Hulman) [just to name a very few] a really superior student can accomplish the very difficult task of a science/engineering major and baseball. Even then, however, it is a very difficult undertaking.

Now, if you attend a "lesser" baseball power, you can "show your stuff" in high end summer leagues -- assuming the coach has the pull to get you placed.

A real balancing decision -- and only your family can weigh the elements which go into the decision.

With 54 games, travel every other week, practice, etc., the necessary science/engineering labs don't stand a chance!

This is a really good thread, thanks to everyone for contributing. Keep it going!

Goosegg: While I wasn't personally looking for input in this discussion about sci/engineering majors, in fact you make a very important point. Parents of students with highest academic potential really need to think hard about this balance, and it is a rare student who can be in a 'killer major' and succeed at D1 'top level' baseball.

BTW - If anyone knows how to 're-name' a thread I think this entire conversation is worth posting somewhere else, since it is kind of tucked away here under "Northwestern" and it got much broader than that!

Can anyone move it to General Discussion and call it something like "Selective Colleges"?? (I am a newbie to this place; don't know if that is possible..)

quote:

Can anyone move it to General Discussion and call it something like "Selective Colleges"?? (I am a newbie to this place; don't know if that is possible..)

We can do that!

PS - I can't get the move function to work for some reason but will send a pm to MN-Mom to have her move it. Thanks.

any particular reason washington university in st. louis hasnt been mentioned yet?

hh15,
Washington U has great academics. That cannot be a dispute.
Their baseball program is not at the level of the DIII's mentioned thus far...and they are not necessarily warm weather.
Good baseball? I have not seen them play but I know they are not annually battling for and playing in a D3 regional.
That was a reason they did not jump into my thinking in terms of the colleges and theme being discussed.

I agree, good thread. I created a shortcut in the General Items forum, since it's also very appropriate under "Ask About Colleges".

ClevelandDad, thanks for the PM. I couldn't get the usual moderator buttons to work either, but was able to do it through my administrator's control panel.

Julie

Trevor Baur a phenom pitcher at UCLA, PAC ten is majoring in enginnering. Smart,and gifted.

And a little quirky

Love it.

I agree with others about the value of this thread. I've always felt strongly that the combination of a first-class degree and the opportunity to play baseball while earning it was one of the most special opportunities that a student-athlete could experience. As I read through it, though, I can't help but think about the wide spectrum of athletic funds available to players at the various schools mentioned.

There's not only the disparity between the DI's that can offer up to 11.7 scholarships and the DIII's that can offer none. Especially in a list of this sort, the question of full funding of the 11.7 maximum at DI programs has to be considered.

Take Davidson, for example. This may have changed in recent years; but, the last time I heard the number, Davidson had to split a total of 3 scholarships among all its players. Clearly, this can end up being an important consideration for all but the best-heeled families.

quote:

Posted by Goosegg......Except for the very, very few, combining a science/engineering major with baseball at the power D1s is impossible. Proof can be found by researching the majors of the baseball players attending those great academic powerhouses (pay attention only to majors of the jrs and srs -- the fr and sophs havent yet chosen a major.)

At lesser baseball levels (low D1 [e.g., Bucknell, IVY], and D3 (e.g., Emory, JH, Rose-Hulman) [just to name a very few] a really superior student can accomplish the very difficult task of a science/engineering major and baseball. Even then, however, it is a very difficult undertaking.

IMHO these two points are the two most important points we've learned from trial and error during our recruiting process. I would include pre-med/pre-law studies in there along with science/engineering. It comes down to time, and a student needs more time with these majors because of the academic competition and content. The difference between 56 D1 games and 40 D1 games between these two D1 levels is huge in a 13 week period. Also the number and schedule of practices, conditioning & weightlifting has a huge effect on time management.

I'll throw in the College of NJ and Washington and Lee. Both D3. W&L being further south but alot more cash.

If you are interested in science and engineering, I would propose that Harvey Mudd is potentially the top of the heap as far as combination of education and baseball. They are equivalent to MIT in terms of a degree and CMS (Claremont – Mudd – Scripps) plays in a very competitive D3 conference. There is endowment money if you can get in. I will caution you however that very very few can compete there academically and also play baseball. My son interviewed at Mudd and although he thought he could compete in either baseball or academics, he figured there was no way he could compete academically and do baseball at the same time. I believe that 1/3 of the class there is a Valedictorian or a Salutatorian. Most if not all of the kids on the team are attending Claremont, which is also up there academically also, but certainly not a Mudd. If you are a very very gifted student and can play baseball it is worth a look.

fenwaysouth - I agree pre-med would be a stretch for a baseball playwer. Pre-law ought to be no problem for them imho. I would liken it to a history degree or a business degree which many players are enrolled and likewise succeed.

quote:

Originally posted by BK35:
I'll throw in the College of NJ and Washington and Lee. Both D3. W&L being further south but alot more cash.

Both good baseball programs but the 2 schools are not even close to each other education wise, W&L is one of the finest schools in the country with TCNJ being a very good school.Do not let the money scare you away from W&L, my son was accepted to both and even with TCNJ being a state school it would of cost me about 16k more per year for my son to go there.W&L is VERY generous when it comes to FA.

quote:

fenwaysouth - I agree pre-med would be a stretch for a baseball playwer.

You may be right but I hope not. My son is a 2013 and is thinking pre-med as of now.

[quote]Both good baseball programs but the 2 schools are not even close to each other education wise, W&L is one of the finest schools in the country with TCNJ being a very good school.Do not let the money scare you away from W&L, my son was accepted to both and even with TCNJ being a state school it would of cost me about 16k more per year for my son to go there.W&L is VERY generous when it comes to FA.[quote]

I dont believe we will qualify for FA, but I could be wrong. Any feedback on W&L?

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
fenwaysouth - I agree pre-med would be a stretch for a baseball playwer. Pre-law ought to be no problem for them imho. I would liken it to a history degree or a business degree which many players are enrolled and likewise succeed.

CD - I think what FenwaySouth is referring to is the fact that in order to get into a top law school, you can have very few slip ups in the grades you must obtain. While a political science major may not take the time that some of the lab science do, the competition is still fierce, so grades and LSAT's must be there also.

BK35, dont sell yourself short on FA,there are plenty of very good schools out there that are loaded and they give it out. The more selective schools that meet 90 to 100% of need if accepted will make it affordable.

quote:

Originally posted by BK35:
[QUOTE]fenwaysouth - I agree pre-med would be a stretch for a baseball playwer.

You may be right but I hope not. My son is a 2013 and is thinking pre-med as of now.

quote:

Both good baseball programs but the 2 schools are not even close to each other education wise, W&L is one of the finest schools in the country with TCNJ being a very good school.Do not let the money scare you away from W&L, my son was accepted to both and even with TCNJ bein

g a state school it would of cost me about 16k more per year for my son to go there.W&L is VERY generous when it comes to FA.[quote]

I dont believe we will qualify for FA, but I could be wrong. Any feedback on W&L?

Here is a page with some examples of aid from W&L.
http://financialaidapps.wlu.edu/GrantAid.asp#

Wow, good info.
Thanks Ken

Another 2 examples just to show there is alot of money available out there if your son takes care of his work in the classroom.

http://www.hamilton.edu/finaid/sample-packages

Haverford:
Source: Director of Financial Aid Haverford College Factbook, December 2009
THE AVERAGE FINANCIAL AID AWARD
The philosophy of Haverford's student aid program is that the resources of the College should be focused to assist those students whose family means are the most modest. We build upon the idea that the student and his or her parents are primarily responsible for paying the costs of education. Our packaging process is designed to ensure that all reasonable contributions and assistance from outside sources have been considered before College funds are awarded. Simply stated: financial need equals costs minus resources. The following financial aid package is typical for first-year U.S. students meeting published application deadlines.
AVERAGE 2009-10
FINANCIAL AID PACKAGE
First-Year Students with Grant Funds as of 9/15/09
Calculation of Financial Need:
A. Total Costs ............................................................................................$54,011
(Tuition, room, board, fees, books, personal & travel)
B. Minus Family Contribution
Parental Contribution........................................................... 15,062
Summer Savings Expectation..............................................*1,463
Student Assets ......................................................................... 882
(Principal amount, @25% of total assets)
Other .......................................................................................... 17
(e.g. faculty tuition grant from other colleges)
Subtotal...................................................................................
17,424
C. GROSS NEED (Costs minus Family Contribution) ...............................$36,587
Financial Assistance to Meet Need:
A. Gross Need (see above) .......................................................................$36,587
B. Non College Aid
Loan Expectation (Stafford or Perkins) ........................................ 0
Job Expectation....................................................................*2,052
Pell and SEOG...................................................................... 1,259
State Grant Aid......................................................................... 271
Other Outside Scholarships ..................................................... 647
Subtotal.....................................................................................4,229
Grant Needed to meet Need...................................................................32,358
(Gross Need minus Non College Aid)
C. Haverford College Grant Funds ..............................................................32,358
D. UNMET FINANCIAL NEED............................................................................$0

Along the same lines as Ken, here is a list of colleges that claim to meet all "unmet need" without loans. All are highly competitive schools as well:

http://www.universitylanguage....lege-financial-need/

It would be interesting to know the salary range of a family whose Estimated Family Contribution is 15,062. Any idea?

approx. 150k

Since we have drifted into the realm of financial aid, I would caution everyone to NOT BELIEVE the self-serving PR about middle class family need-based finacial aid. The schools which do give it out (IVY and some others with large endowments) make it seem that the middle class will hardly feel the pain of the the 53k COA which will be largely met by the University (remember there are no athletic schollys here).

Nothing could be further from reality!

For a really detailed line of discussions on this very issue I would suggest heading over to http://talk.collegeconfidentia...m/athletic-recruits/.

Simply put, a well-endowed university's idea of the middle class family contribution and the family's idea are in different universes.

quote:

Originally posted by Goosegg:
Since we have drifted into the realm of financial aid, I would caution everyone to NOT BELIEVE the self-serving PR about middle class family need-based finacial aid. The schools which do give it out (IVY and some others with large endowments) make it seem that the middle class will hardly feel the pain of the the 53k COA which will be largely met by the University (remember there are no athletic schollys here).

Nothing could be further from reality!



For a really detailed line of discussions on this very issue I would suggest heading over to http://talk.collegeconfidentia...m/athletic-recruits/.

Simply put, a well-endowed university's idea of the middle class family contribution and the family's idea are in different universes.

Maybe the question to be answered is what is middle class?

Granted I can only base my opinion on my own experence but all of the schools that my son applied to fell inline with the information on collegeboard.com as far as family needs met.These schools ran the course from a few state schools,a few privates that do not claim to meet more then 60 to 75% and the others that claim to meet 90 to 100%. The schools that claimed to offer 99 to 100& had me dancing for joy as I pay more for books at my oldest son`s school (private catholic)then I would pay at these schools.
Good luck in trying to agree on what the income is for a middle class family (sore subject in NJ).

I agree that the schools will give financial aid AFTER the family's contribution is calculated.

The rub is the amount of the family contribution and the manner that amount is derived.

The calculations are much much more subtle then simply looking at the family's combined w-2 (that's parents and children's w-2)or even the AGI on the tax return.

How much do you have in the bank? How about the kid's job money saved up from the paper route? Do you own a little stock? How about a business? Etc.
The questions asked by the schools are fair, to be sure, but to say that a family will contribute to the COA only 10% of their W-2 of 150,000 is not even close to the actual amount that will be labeled "expected family contribution." The actual amount will (in the overwhelming majority or circumstances) be a far larger percentage.

May I just say how impressed I was by Andrew Luck from Stanford? If he, as the QB for a top DI team is able to carry a 3.5 in architectural engineering, I would hope that many of our children will be able to choose college majors based on their passions, and not limit themselves to "sports-friendly" ones.

quote:

Originally posted by Goosegg:
I agree that the schools will give financial aid AFTER the family's contribution is calculated.

The rub is the amount of the family contribution and the manner that amount is derived.

The calculations are much much more subtle then simply looking at the family's combined w-2 (that's parents and children's w-2)or even the AGI on the tax return.

How much do you have in the bank? How about the kid's job money saved up from the paper route? Do you own a little stock? How about a business? Etc.
The questions asked by the schools are fair, to be sure, but to say that a family will contribute to the COA only 10% of their W-2 of 150,000 is not even close to the actual amount that will be labeled "expected family contribution." The actual amount will (in the overwhelming majority or circumstances) be a far larger percentage.

As I posted above based on my experence it does hold true.