Shaved and Rolled Bats

I wonder about:

14U kids using Drop 5's when they should be swinging BBCOR

Which Academy programs have kids use Shaved Bats for PBR exit velo testing

What happens when a kid gets seriously injured by a blast from a shaved bat, especially since most have already waived liability.  The waiver of liability applies to the fields & programs, but what about the kid using an illegal bat?

Where were in a tournament this weekend that during the 14/u tournament the 13 year olds could use -5.  But there was NO ONE checking ages.    Its travel ball.  Hopefully the tournaments start making rules and checks to thwart this practice.

Well, it happens in slow-pitch men's softball: www.sbnation.com/2015/8/5/9041...the-bat-doctor-is-in

Which just goes to show that a lack of integrity will appear even when the stakes are really small.

All I can say is "Remind your kid of Sammy Sosa"...

Out of curiosity, what do your League rules have to say? Is it even addressed?

I actually think that there should be regulated minus 5 bats (like BBCOR for minus 5). many 13 and 14 year old kids are not really ready for using a BBCOR but using a super hot minus 5 makes no sense either if you switch to BBCOR next season.

I think giving them regulated minus 5 bats for a transition year would help many kids in their development.

By the time you hit 7th grade I do believe you should be hitting -3.  It is not like a kid is being judged by his power numbers in MS.  by 14 many kids have already kicked in their growth spurts and handle -3 just fine.  I have a small 14 year old who just one hopped a HS field with a shot to left with a -3.   In competitive travel ball most 13/u teams can still use some sort of bat lighter than -3. Most travel teams have decently skilled players.  Using a drop -8 in middle school teams where they still have players who are approaching the end of their baseball careers and not really moving beyond 7th or 8th grades is a bad idea.  Imagine a big bodied skilled 13 year old using a drop 5 against a 7th grader who really is playing his last year of competitive baseball....Not good.

With out discussing wood, I personally believe the bat rules are fine where they at.  Again, this is coming from father whose child has always been one of the smaller kids on any team hes played for.

BBcor -3 are fine if you use the proper balls. Most HS balls are soft with large seems. Pickup a college ball or pro ball you will realize the difference immediately.

Altered bats happen, however, the way you handle it says a lot about you as a player and a team.

My 14u played a USSSA tourney last year where drop 10 was allowed, the coach told the players you will use BBCOR or you will use wood, no one will be using anything else.  Yes, there were some home runs that seemed odd, however, his team still won the tourney using the heavier bats.

A quick google search revealed names like Dr. Bat and others, who sell shaved and rolled bats for home run competitions; so, this situation does not appear to be imaginary at all.

I think the term "home run competition" really needs to be put in quotes and maybe a winking emoji at the end.  I looked at some of these sites awhile back (after I was told of their existence by this board) and I never read where the "company" made any alterations to the exterior  of the bat(like a disclaimer label to the other certifications).  In fact one touted the fact that a visual inspection would not reveal any alteration and the end cap was guaranteed not to pop off.  All I can think of is that they put the "home run" disclaimer on the site at their lawyer's recommendation so that if some kid gets hurt in game play, they can point to the disclaimer.  I can't really blame these companies for trying to make a buck and put the blame squarely on parents (I doubt many 12-14 year olds are ordering $300 shaved bats off the internet) and maybe coaches from the comments above.  

Good news is that my younger kid now realizes that his hitting slump was not the bat's fault.  Now all I have to do is convince him that the new grip wasn't the reason he started making better contact.  If I recall correctly, the ZEPP measurements are all done using a "ZEPP" bat.  I feel sorry for some kid who has been hitting it out with his shaved bat only to find himself in the bottom quartile for bat speed when he heads off to PG.  I guess he can always blame his Dad for sabotaging his baseball career.

Haven't had a ton of experience witnessing shaved bats, but when son was a little younger (maybe 11u), I overheard a conversation between two dads whose kids were on my son's team talking about doing it. It seems to stem from getting any little advantage possible, especially since neither of these kids were power hitters at all.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

A quick google search revealed names like Dr. Bat and others, who sell shaved and rolled bats for home run competitions; so, this situation does not appear to be imaginary at all.

I think the term "home run competition" really needs to be put in quotes and maybe a winking emoji at the end.  I looked at some of these sites awhile back (after I was told of their existence by this board) and I never read where the "company" made any alterations to the exterior  of the bat(like a disclaimer label to the other certifications).  In fact one touted the fact that a visual inspection would not reveal any alteration and the end cap was guaranteed not to pop off.  All I can think of is that they put the "home run" disclaimer on the site at their lawyer's recommendation so that if some kid gets hurt in game play, they can point to the disclaimer.  I can't really blame these companies for trying to make a buck and put the blame squarely on parents (I doubt many 12-14 year olds are ordering $300 shaved bats off the internet) and maybe coaches from the comments above.  

Good news is that my younger kid now realizes that his hitting slump was not the bat's fault.  Now all I have to do is convince him that the new grip wasn't the reason he started making better contact.  If I recall correctly, the ZEPP measurements are all done using a "ZEPP" bat.  I feel sorry for some kid who has been hitting it out with his shaved bat only to find himself in the bottom quartile for bat speed when he heads off to PG.  I guess he can always blame his Dad for sabotaging his baseball career.

Congrats on getting him to relax and make better contact with a $12 Lizard Skin and not $100 per hour lessons. Big win for your wallet.

a slump is always the fault of the bat....or the golf club as the case may be as we get older!!!

lets face it folks these are manufactured products and every so often they run out of good swings or shots!!

that's my story....

I have seen shaved and rolled bats and to the naked eye they do not seem to show any outward appearance of being altered. I would not have known they were altered except for the fact that I was told beforehand.  

I have been fortunate enough to work the PONY World Series where the tourney staff requires each team to present each bat to be used in the WS to be weighed. Each bat is weighed and compared against a chart of verified weights by model and manufacturer. 

If it is found to be underweight it is banned from the field. If it passes weight requirements, a small sticker is affixed to the bat just above the handle. Any player that uses a bat without the sticker is out and ejected.  

what about liability issues?  If one of these bats is used and God forbid injures or kills a player...could get really ugly legally and I wouldnt want that on my conscience the rest of my life because I wanted my kid to hit a few more home runs per season.

longsufferingmetsfan posted:

My son plays for a 14U Majors team in north Texas.  He has related to me that many kids on his team, and opposing teams, are now using shaved bats to gain a competitive advantage.   I'm unsure how prevalent this situation is, but, I've personally noticed several upper-level teams having their players all use the same one or two bats, which I had not previously seen.  I also saw a 14 year old hit a ball about 420 feet this weekend, with a sound, body and swing that did not even remotely match the distance that the ball traveled.   The ball also seems to make a different sound coming off certain bats.

 My son is not interested in using a shaved bat, and I would not permit it anyway.  I mostly think that it hurts the game, and does a disservice to the user down the road, who may never get a feel for barreling the ball up with an unnatural bat.  

A quick google search revealed names like Dr. Bat and others, who sell shaved and rolled bats for home run competitions; so, this situation does not appear to be imaginary at all.   And, knowing human nature, it's quite reasonable to assume that some might use shaved bats outside of home run competitions.   I know that cheating in baseball is as old as the game itself, but, this seems to be a new one in the youth ranks. 

As a result, I'm very curious how prevalent this is in the minds of other folks on this forum.   I also wonder how scouting services like Perfect game, or scouts in general, deal with this new challenge. I also wonder whether there is discussion about how this problem might be corrected down the road, i.e. wood bats only, weighing bats, having tourneys supply bats, etc.

Thanks.          

Hurts the game? The hell with that. It's freak'n illegal. If your son injured my son with a shot using a rolled bat I would have the bat confiscated and sue your ass off for allowing him to use it. 

3and2Fastball posted:

I wonder about:

14U kids using Drop 5's when they should be swinging BBCOR

Which Academy programs have kids use Shaved Bats for PBR exit velo testing

What happens when a kid gets seriously injured by a blast from a shaved bat, especially since most have already waived liability.  The waiver of liability applies to the fields & programs, but what about the kid using an illegal bat?

The bat shaving companies typically cover their tails. They state bat shaving is for hitting exhibitions only. But if my kid got injured by a shaved bat I would sue everyone connected with the swing of the bat (bat shaving company - they know why they're shaving bats, the family that purchased the bat for their kid for providing an illegal weapon on the field of play, the team he plays for for allowing the bat to be used and the tournament for allowing the bat to be used. It is illegal to use a shaved bat in a game. 

Rolled bats have become a problem in Southern Section of California for HS baseball and they are trying to figure out what to do.  I think the only way to change this is to go to a lower seam baseball, but it is extremely expensive.  These kids grow up swing missiles for bats and then one day someone throws this log at them and tells them good luck.  There needs to be a happy medium for your Joe Average HS baseball player.

FYI......If someone is hurt by a rolled or shaved bat the family of the kid who hit the ball can be sued.

I was watching the link to a softball site that showed how they "shaved an aluminum bat".

The guys on the video mentioned that if someone got hurt the owner of the bat would be arrested.  Not sure if its an actual law but he mentioned arrest a few times.  And if a father purchased one for his kid and an injury resulted.  Id imagine that the father would be arrested.   If thats even true.

How would you know though?  Kid gets hit by a comebacker.  While everyone is waiting for an ambulance people are checking the bat?  Potentially volatile situation