i used to short arm does anyone know if so how much does short arming effect velocity and if youare more prone to injury
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You need to describe what you think SHORT ARMING is because not everyone has the same definition.
throwing like a catcher shot putting pie throwing
Do you think Billy Wagner short arms?
Shotputting/pie throwing is not short arming, but it is a problem that affects velocity because there is little or no external rotation of the shoulder.
Many catchers do short-arm/ear-ball. Wagner does this. Clemens does it a little. It is not necessarily a problem. It should not affect velocity. House talks about it a little in The Pitching Edge. As I recall, his take on it is that it is not really a problem because the term is only descriptive of where the forearm starts, not where it finishes, and that's what's important.
Many catchers do short-arm/ear-ball. Wagner does this. Clemens does it a little. It is not necessarily a problem. It should not affect velocity. House talks about it a little in The Pitching Edge. As I recall, his take on it is that it is not really a problem because the term is only descriptive of where the forearm starts, not where it finishes, and that's what's important.
quote:Originally posted by nextgreatone91:
throwing like a catcher shot putting pie throwing
Check your PMs ngo91.
Short arming is when you don't extend back. You bring your arm up through thezone until your elbow is at shoulder height and then you go forward to finish your throw. It is common amoung infields, catchers and quartebacks since quick release is very important. It can be effective for pitchers but you often sacrafice accuracy.
Bobblehead, we usually agree on pitching but I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this one. (Maybe I'm just going to prove SKeep's point?)
"Short-arming" refers to a player with a tight arm action who never achieves much extension. Pitchers are not supposed to extend straight back in any event, other than as their arm is in motion in the "down, back and up" swing. So the mere failure to extend back is not "short-arming" the ball.
A typical sign of short arming is the guy whose elbow is below shoulder level at release. He tends to push the ball to the plate instead of whipping it. Actually it may not hurt control, but it will rob velocity and can enhance risk of injury due to increased strain on both the shoulder and elbow.
"Short-arming" refers to a player with a tight arm action who never achieves much extension. Pitchers are not supposed to extend straight back in any event, other than as their arm is in motion in the "down, back and up" swing. So the mere failure to extend back is not "short-arming" the ball.
A typical sign of short arming is the guy whose elbow is below shoulder level at release. He tends to push the ball to the plate instead of whipping it. Actually it may not hurt control, but it will rob velocity and can enhance risk of injury due to increased strain on both the shoulder and elbow.
How would you guys fix this problem?
Midlo we definitely disagree on this point. I have seen several coaches promote not extending back and I totally disagree with that.
Any time your elbow is below the shoulder you add stress. I just spent some time with my son who had slipped into lowering his elbow to get a wihipping action. I got him tp extend and keep his elbows up and he said his shoulder felt better and he got better movement on the ball keeping it lower in the zone. The coach that messed him up is gone and I just hope he can get back to where he was.
Any time your elbow is below the shoulder you add stress. I just spent some time with my son who had slipped into lowering his elbow to get a wihipping action. I got him tp extend and keep his elbows up and he said his shoulder felt better and he got better movement on the ball keeping it lower in the zone. The coach that messed him up is gone and I just hope he can get back to where he was.
As you can see there are more than 1 view of short arming so you have to descibe what exactly is happening.
actally it was what midlo said i was just not getting extension and i know it hurt my velocity or atleast made it consientialy inconsistent
a coach described it to me like this its like the barrel of a bat which is moving fast versus the handle which is moving slow meaning i wasnt getting the full use of my long arms i wasnt getting full extension
but on a side note ive worked hard to fix the problem with alittle halp from a traning aid called
throw max which i thinks is great
a coach described it to me like this its like the barrel of a bat which is moving fast versus the handle which is moving slow meaning i wasnt getting the full use of my long arms i wasnt getting full extension
but on a side note ive worked hard to fix the problem with alittle halp from a traning aid called
throw max which i thinks is great
Unless I misread Midlo he said extension back wasn't important. I have heard college coaches preach not extending back. I have seen guys with stocky builds who have a problem reaching full extension but they always should get the elbow up to shoulder height. We always refered to not extending back as short arming which it appears your coach does as well.
When you attach your surgical bands to a fence and pull it over the top it should help with full extension.
My son struggled last year due to majot mechanical flaws. His coach was trying to get him to short arm saying the hitter gets a better look at the ball coming from way back. That is total garbage and he was very successful in his previous 2 years with full extension.
When you attach your surgical bands to a fence and pull it over the top it should help with full extension.
My son struggled last year due to majot mechanical flaws. His coach was trying to get him to short arm saying the hitter gets a better look at the ball coming from way back. That is total garbage and he was very successful in his previous 2 years with full extension.
I'm a big believer in the "L position" approach. Hands separate during kick, pitching hand drops to hip level in "downward L", then flips back (ball facing second base) and up to "upward L". During the flip back and up, you could get a stop-action photo of the arm passing through the position where it is fully extended back, but I would want that to occur in motion, with flexibility -- not a "bow and arrow" approach that simply draws straight back and stiff.
In the "upward L", the ball is above the shoulder. The elbow is almost even with shoulder level, but not totally -- just a hair lower usually works best.
Maintaining elbow flexibility in the delivery is not short arming. Short arming has more of the "chicken wing" appearance -- tight V shape in tthe arm, elbow low, ball too close to the shoulder or head.
In the "upward L", the ball is above the shoulder. The elbow is almost even with shoulder level, but not totally -- just a hair lower usually works best.
Maintaining elbow flexibility in the delivery is not short arming. Short arming has more of the "chicken wing" appearance -- tight V shape in tthe arm, elbow low, ball too close to the shoulder or head.
We are talking about the same thing. I have seen a couple guys who go straight back in our A MiLB club years ago. The one guy was from Australia and he was very good. Unfortunately he like the ladies more than BB. At one pointe he wanted to quit but the club said they would want the $500,000 back. He finsihed his last year and the went home to Australia.
The break of hands leads to a downward arc going to extension.
The break of hands leads to a downward arc going to extension.
now that weve established what it is how do we go about fixing it
Wagner was a born righty and after two setbacks (something torn or broke, I don't remember) he started throwing with his left hand. It may be a reason for his "short arm" motion.
To define a "short-arm" action I think would be to see where the ball is when the pitcher plants his stride foot. Stand behind the pitcher and see. Regardless of arm angle, the ball, the body and the stride foot should be in perfect alignment when the the stride foot lands. If not, the pitcher invariably is "flying open".. so if I were standing behind a RHP who is short-arming the ball would be off-line (to the right) of an imaginary line drawn extending from his stride foot through his body backwards. The pitcher who is properly aligned uses his body's rotation from the core (throwing from the belly-button) to achieve velocity rather than deriving force from the arm itself. Thus, it is a kinetic chain where the the legs, the core, the shoulder, the arm, and ultimately the ball are impacted upon in a bull-whip fashion to achieve velocity.
A pitcher who is short-arming the ball loses this kinetic chain. When he plants his foot, and has flown open, the force he tends to apply is not the body and core but the shoulder and arm itself.
To illustrate this, throw from the landing position (in the straight line I suggested). You can rotate from the core, shoulder, arm and hand to throw with great velocity. Now try the same with the ball slightly off-center (to the right for a RHP). To throw with velocity from this mis-aligned position you must sacrifice rotational force and use the arm and shoulder itself. That's a problem.
To me, the simple fix is long-toss. It takes good mechanics (not flying open) for a player to throw maximum distance. Long-toss reinforces a consistent arm slot, pushes the player to stay closed (in alignment) and further promotes arm speed to achieve maximum distance.
A pitcher who is short-arming the ball loses this kinetic chain. When he plants his foot, and has flown open, the force he tends to apply is not the body and core but the shoulder and arm itself.
To illustrate this, throw from the landing position (in the straight line I suggested). You can rotate from the core, shoulder, arm and hand to throw with great velocity. Now try the same with the ball slightly off-center (to the right for a RHP). To throw with velocity from this mis-aligned position you must sacrifice rotational force and use the arm and shoulder itself. That's a problem.
To me, the simple fix is long-toss. It takes good mechanics (not flying open) for a player to throw maximum distance. Long-toss reinforces a consistent arm slot, pushes the player to stay closed (in alignment) and further promotes arm speed to achieve maximum distance.
