Should a prospect make this statement publicly?

There is definitely a fine line not to cross. Maybe the projection at 2 was inaccurate, and/or true ability played more than the public comment. I'll defer to someone who did it right. I really liked the Trout kid from NJ. If my son ever gets the chance, I hope he handles himself just like that young man did. KUDOs to that kid!!

GED10DaD

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While it seems like a mistake in retospect...

Every situation, every draft day strategy is unique...like anything else some strategies work some do not. Some have large risk, others not so muhc. Some have plan B. Some took their worth too seriously...others not enough.

Talked recently to the parents of a player who quoted a high number because they had big funds behind them the family was willing to forgo immediate big $ for the college experience...

44
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GUNEM

You are so right about the Trout boy--we played him a number of times last fall--in fact he beat us with a home run to knock us out in the semi finals of a tournament---great kid

TR,
I think you are referring to Baseball Heaven. My son was at that tournament. I might have my games confused but I think the game you are talking about was about 10pm and very cold. He also scored from first on double in the gap. It was the fastest I have seen anyone round the bases.

He has also floated high $$ amount for his slot. Possibly could have gone higher if he had not floated the high number. Negotiations have to start somewhere.

How about these two quotes out of our local rag?...two different draftees...

"My goal was never to really play at a big college." "I just wanted to play pro ball."

"The Pirates said they were going to draft me (today)." "They'd need to offer me just enough to live off of. This has been my dream, to play baseball for a living. It'd be fun to do every day."

quote:

Originally posted by DaddyBo:
How about these two quotes out of our local rag?...two different draftees...

"My goal was never to really play at a big college." "I just wanted to play pro ball."

"The Pirates said they were going to draft me (today)." "They'd need to offer me just enough to live off of. This has been my dream, to play baseball for a living. It'd be fun to do every day."

So much for leverage. I don't think these players have heard of negotiating skills.

i'd say all the above statements are ok. sure the teams like guy's they know they can sign, they love guy's they can sign for bus fare.

we all know ton's of kids that will sign for free. but.....the more you sign for the more mistakes you can make.

while the teams alway's feel their offer is a fair one, you need to get what you can up front. whatever that may be.

it's a big business disquised as a little boy's dream.

quote:

Originally posted by observer44:
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While it seems like a mistake in retospect...

Every situation, every draft day strategy is unique...like anything else some strategies work some do not. Some have large risk, others not so muhc. Some have plan B. Some took their worth too seriously...others not enough.

Talked recently to the parents of a player who quoted a high number because they had big funds behind them the family was willing to forgo immediate big $ for the college experience...

44
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I think that OB44 hits the nail on the head.

As far as a player telling teams they will sign for practically nothing, bad move, because that is just what they are going to get. When the teams come to offer them nothing, they will want more, bad stragedy.

Teams pays a player for what they feel they are worth, to them.

My suggestion would be to keep your mouth closed, or "fair market value for a player of my calibur in the round that I will accept." In other words, if you demand 2nd round money and they draft you later, you weren't worth that OR, you would walk away and go to school and they would be out one serious pick. That's all about signability. Most beleive they are worth more than they are and so do we as parents.

I saw on a site where a player was twittering what he wanted, that was just ridiculous, where was his agent advising him to keep his mouth (rather fingers) shut.

The player I anonymously referenced was drafted today. I figure the team isn't risking much with a late pick. Maybe they can talk him down a little and get a bonus high pick.

Worked out for Mark Texiera...

I always thought in the long run, it paid to be honest in your dealings with people -- including scouts. Maybe you'd want a lot to pass on the college experience, but in 3-4 years you'll be ready to take less. So, don't burn any bridges by leading someone on and then, after they draft you in maybe the 4th round, you spurn their offer. They'll remember you the next time around.

That being said, I don't know that quoting your figure in public is smart. Your finances are nobody's business but yours. It starts to sound less like sound business decision making and more like bragging. If you want people to understand why you might not get picked so high after all, that's fine, but you can explain the concept of signability without telling the media what your number is.

At the risk of redundancy, I'm squarely in Midlo's camp on this one. It sounds like bragging, because scouts would already know this from substantive conversations, so there's no need to go public.

I would have advised my son that if he wanted to say something, be ambiguous..."We've talked with a number of scouts and they know that I feel strongly about my college eduction. In spite of that, pro baseball would certainly have to be considered if there were an offer financially large enough to justify putting college on the back burner. We'll just have to wait and see."

Once my son made his college commitment, scouts still peeked in on him at starts, but they pretty much quit following him. One team told me..."Once he committed to West Point, there was nothing we could offer him that would be able to compete with that. We just thought we'd have to wait until after college." Which was code for, We like your kid, but not at that price. Maybe later we'll like him better.

THE WHOLE STORY NOW THAT IT'S NEWS:

Asking price causes Kennedy-Kenrick's Walker to drop in baseball draft
By TED SILARY
Philadelphia Daily News

silaryt@phillynews.com

As recently as Tuesday afternoon, as he headed home from Senior Week in Ocean City, N.J., to prepare for baseball's first-year player draft, Christian "Ya-Ya" Walker sounded excited.

He had long owned a national profile, one that had experienced off-the-charts mushrooming back in January, thanks to his winning, bombs-to-everywhere performance in a home-run derby at Tampa's Tropicana Field.

Walker, a 6-1, 210-pound third baseman (and occasional catcher) from Kennedy-Kenrick High in Norristown, was hearing he could be selected anywhere from the second to sixth round.

As much as he wanted to believe that . . .

"The whole thing is a crapshoot," he said then. "You never know. You can't 'expect' anything. I'm anxious. I just want to see what's going to happen."

Thank goodness he didn't hold his breath.

The draft commenced Tuesday night (three rounds), then dragged through Wednesday (to 30) and yesterday (to 50). After almost going unpicked, Walker was tabbed by the Dodgers in the 49th round.

Forty-ninth?! Why so late?

$$$$$$.

Scott Walker, Christian's father, sounding frazzled but at the same time looking ahead with hope, detailed his family's wild ride early last evening.

How the family, in concert with adviser Mike Martini, had informed teams before the draft that $750,000 would be required to keep Walker from honoring his commitment to the University of South Carolina.

How Red Sox scout Chris Calciano, a Philly native and former star at Robert Lamberton High, called Tuesday to say his team would take Walker in the fourth round if agreement could be reached on a $500,000 bonus.

How the family came down to $650,000, and the Bosox declined to move up.

"You know how it goes," Scott Walker said. "Baseball people talk. When it's through the 20th round and Christian's still not drafted, it was obvious the word got around that our number was $650,000."

Scott Walker said Calciano again made contact yesterday and repeated his half-million offer.

"We said we'd go with that," Walker said. "I called Christian - he's back down the shore - and he was excited. The idea of just forgetting the draft stuff and going to South Carolina was growing on him. But at the same time, pro ball was what he wanted all these years. What he worked for.

"They were up to maybe the 45th round now. We thought it was going to happen . . . Then we get the word. Dodgers. Forty-ninth round. I'm not sure why the Red Sox didn't follow through. I don't want to say anything bad about them. I just don't know. It didn't happen."

Attempts to reach Calciano were unsuccessful.

Christian Walker's skills were scrutinized by every team. He subjected himself to extra workouts for the Dodgers, White Sox, Royals, Yankees, Red Sox and, yes, your Phillies. To meet the Dodgers' request, he even traveled to Atlanta to perform with schoolboy and college prospects from around the East Coast.

Scott Walker said the Dodgers told him they are not prepared to offer $500,000, but will follow him over the summer. The deadine to sign is Aug. 15.

"I'm sure Christian and his family are disheartened," said K-K coach Tom Sergio, who played minor league ball and advanced to Triple A. "It's a rough situation. You could argue both ways."

"There's a little bit of heartache for us," Scott Walker said. "This was difficult. [Wife] Julie and I are looking back. Did we pass up a great opportunity? We set a number that we felt was fair, considering Christian's talents and that he's signed with a great SEC program. Then we came down because we felt that made the most sense. The economy's crazy. Who knows how much everyone's going to get?

"Christian is confident this is going to work out. In fact, he assures me he'll be able to double his bonus amount in 3 years."

Wow! That article should be a must read for every player drafted before they publicly (or privately to a pro team) comment about anything related to the draft. Good luck to the young man at South Carolina, maybe he can improve his offer after three years there.

I can relate to that story.
650K after taxes, and his agents fees, it's 400K give or take on each side.
If he really wants to play professional ball out of HS, the money shouldn't matter, in this case going to college did, or he would have agreed to the 500K.
You can't keep secrets, you tell one scout something before the draft and everyone knows your business. Be prepared for that info to come out.

I agree with Jerseydad, the whole object is to be realistic, each player has individual wants and needs and also with Midlo about being honest. I think that being honest helped son in his second draft. He just let them know he was ready, he may have gotten less than he wanted out of HS, but they also know they weren't going to draft him and then he was going to start a negotiating war. He also had no signability issues the second time around (not drafted out of HS).

Everyone has different ideas about draft day, hearing your name called out early is pretty heady stuff, but if you are not going to take that opportunity if it arrives then there is gonna be some people who don't like that, and possibly some scout MAY lose his job over you not being honest.

JMO

Personally, I am a bit that this is even a subject of discussion on the HSBBW and the player's Dad is having to answer questions for the press.
Far too often I read the resentment over an agent/advisor like Boras. I am sure there is going to be even more since he seems to have this years first 3 selections. Whatever people think about Boras, his clients and those he advises usually do well in contrast to this story.
In my view, either the advisor involved here gave advice that was not followed or something was confusing about the guidance.
Most of of us do not have any experience with the issues that this player and his family confronted. MLB deals with these issues daily. They are experts and they drive the bargain in most situations, as the article suggests they did for this player.
Until you have negotiated any issue with MLB, it is very hard for anyone to understand the difference in bargaining power and tactics. Negotiating with MLB on any issue is pretty much one side negotiating and one side telling them no, this is the deal, take it or leave it. It is difficult, tedious and takes persistence and real skill.
One reason this is being reported and discussed here is probably the player, the money, and the outcome.
On a smaller scale, this happens to players everyday. Will you sign for $$$$, the player says yes and he doesn't get picked.
Will you sign for $$$$, the player says no, I will sign for $$$$$,and the player does not ever hear another word,from that team or any team, even though he is getting a call in the 15th round. Now, I wonder why every team would pass for the next 35 rounds on a kid who is being considered in the 15th round, unless the $$$$ gets circulated.
I feel badly for this young man and his family if he really wanted to be playing Milb. But he does have 3 years at South Carolina, he will be more savvy when the next draft comes, and probably will get better advice or make different decision.
Even with that, he and his family will still not have anywhere near the bargaining power or skills of the MLB teams involved, and may have a collectively bargained bonus/salary structure as a further complication.

It doesn't hurt that kid to fall to the 49th round if he wasn't going to sign for the amount the pros were willing to offer in any event. He didn't lose anything but maybe the right to brag that he was a "XXth round pick" (assuming that would've been earlier than the 49th round).

The only loss was if he truly would have considered lesser money and all the media bluster was nothing more than negotiation posturing. Anyone trying that would soon find out they made a serious strategic error.

So when you say there's a lesson to be learned, what is the lesson, that he could've gone pro if he'd've kept his mouth shut? Sure, he could've. But for what they offered, he preferred college.

It's a financial decision for the teams, and any player who doesn't understand that it's a financial decision for them as well is apt to make a big time life misstep. You hear all the time how teams like a kid to just say he is ready and wants to go pro. Sure they do, just like a car dealer likes it when you walk into the showroom and say, "I just HAVE to have THAT car!" They have you right where they want you at that point. And if you think because it's baseball it's some sort of utopia where they won't take full advantage of you if you let them, hoo boy are you in for a rude awakening.

My advice is, figure out what you want, figure out where your striking point is, and do what is best for YOU. If it's pro, great. If it's college, great.

In the vast majority of cases I would tend to agree with TPM that college is the better path. But if the money is way up there, there has to be a point where you would have to give up college. And remember, a whole lot of kids have no interest in college anyway and without the pro ball option they might be selling shoes or some such. Everyone is different.

If the kid in this article didn't get offered the money he would have required to give up pro ball, then he has not hurt himself in any way. He's burned no bridges and he's off to college and college ball. He'll probably go pro in 3-4 years. All in due time.

Midlodad is 100% correct.
There were no secrets, he already let teams know he wanted X amount of dollars, because he had great options, if plan A doesn't work we will go for plan B. He made it clear that 500K wouldn't get it done. Their is nothing wrong with that. End of story.

Infielddad is correct, it's so much bigger than one can imagine dealing with MLB baseball.

Nothing to be embarrased about because he fell in the draft. There's a few here who understand that happens frequently.

Sounds like the young man, considered his options. Told them what it would take for him to not go to college.
Not sure where he would have fell in the draft if he would have taken 1$, might have been 49th pick.
The MLB did not think he was worth what he was asking, and the kid did not want to go unless he got what he was asking for.
He should go to college learn, get an education, and be around some good college players and coaches.